yeah but saying "In the latest tournament..." or "High ELO players..." just doesn't convince me
I use what works for me because it works for me
League Of Legends
League of Legends
i play Kog often and since this "latest tourney" all kogs build wriggles which is beyond stupid on kog, so yea using that as a reason to do something is almost invalid.
Sylph.Shinobu said: »
you're going to have to give me context as to whats not? the dorans? It was built by the majority of ad carries in the IEM tournament. When people didn't do that situation the announcers would even mention it as an uncommon occurrence.
It gives the most stats for gold early game, all dorans do. But if you have no sustain either in your kit, rune, or support you will get pushed out of your lane and back to base.
The problem with watching the tournaments is people take what those people build and go "Oh well that item must be good" when really its good for THAT game.
It isn't about just what the high elo players build its why they build them.
Especially for ad carry bot lane, if you are not rocking a support with heal, all you have is your own sustain. The armor and life steal will keep you going. Each point of armor is a 1% increase to the damage they need to dish out to kill you:
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Armor
30 armor means you effectively just gained 30% more hp (not taking into consideration runes and masteries). Then the life steal brings you even more health. It has as much dmg as 2.3 dorans blades and as much life steal as 4 dorans blades. Counting the 30% effective increase in hp, as much hp as 3 dorans blades when you have 1000 hp. Then wards.
In the end people tend to buy 1 doran blade and wriggles. Also, someone earlier said it was 1700, its 1600. As for more cost benefit, the wards, if used regularly through a 40 min match, and you get it by 10min, saying 30 seconds of down time 1125g worth of wards. Everyone should try and get some wards when they can.
*just edited for saying when you get the wriggles for that cost benefit*
Especially for ad carry bot lane, if you are not rocking a support with heal, all you have is your own sustain. The armor and life steal will keep you going. Each point of armor is a 1% increase to the damage they need to dish out to kill you:
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Armor
30 armor means you effectively just gained 30% more hp (not taking into consideration runes and masteries). Then the life steal brings you even more health. It has as much dmg as 2.3 dorans blades and as much life steal as 4 dorans blades. Counting the 30% effective increase in hp, as much hp as 3 dorans blades when you have 1000 hp. Then wards.
In the end people tend to buy 1 doran blade and wriggles. Also, someone earlier said it was 1700, its 1600. As for more cost benefit, the wards, if used regularly through a 40 min match, and you get it by 10min, saying 30 seconds of down time 1125g worth of wards. Everyone should try and get some wards when they can.
*just edited for saying when you get the wriggles for that cost benefit*
if you watch this right now, hes in the middle of getting wriggles:
http://www.own3d.tv/live/34046/Guardsman_Bob
http://www.own3d.tv/live/34046/Guardsman_Bob
Sylph.Shinobu said: »
It isn't about just what the high elo players build its why they build them.
Especially for ad carry bot lane, if you are not rocking a support with heal, all you have is your own sustain. The armor and life steal will keep you going. Each point of armor is a 1% increase to the damage they need to dish out to kill you:
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Armor
30 armor means you effectively just gained 30% more hp (not taking into consideration runes and masteries). Then the life steal brings you even more health. It has as much dmg as 2.3 dorans blades and as much life steal as 4 dorans blades. Counting the 30% effective increase in hp, as much hp as 3 dorans blades when you have 1000 hp. Then wards.
In the end people tend to buy 1 doran blade and wriggles. Also, someone earlier said it was 1700, its 1600. As for more cost benefit, the wards, if used regularaly through a 40 min match, saying 30 seconds of down time 1125g worth of wards. Everyone should try and get some wards when they can.
Especially for ad carry bot lane, if you are not rocking a support with heal, all you have is your own sustain. The armor and life steal will keep you going. Each point of armor is a 1% increase to the damage they need to dish out to kill you:
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Armor
30 armor means you effectively just gained 30% more hp (not taking into consideration runes and masteries). Then the life steal brings you even more health. It has as much dmg as 2.3 dorans blades and as much life steal as 4 dorans blades. Counting the 30% effective increase in hp, as much hp as 3 dorans blades when you have 1000 hp. Then wards.
In the end people tend to buy 1 doran blade and wriggles. Also, someone earlier said it was 1700, its 1600. As for more cost benefit, the wards, if used regularaly through a 40 min match, saying 30 seconds of down time 1125g worth of wards. Everyone should try and get some wards when they can.
it costs as much as a bf sword which on a ranged ad carry is normally what you wanna rush, if youre doing bad just go double dorans and a vamp scep. If you have someone like soraka, ali, taric, karma, or sona, you should never ever ever have any issues with sustain if you play smart. The key to it is just farm and poke a little bit, being overly aggressive is stupid and you miss out on way too much farm and then thats when you think your sustain blows.
except you cant build into a Bf sword. Like I have said a few times, if you B with 2k, get the bf sword and some boots. If you B with anything less than 1650 wriggles is very great and easier to build into even just the cloth armor helps a lot, which is honestly pretty easy to have happen, be it jungle gank or anything, even with wards, it still happens.
also, wriggles costs 50 less than a BF sword with over half the dmg
if you read the rest of what i said, it says another dorans or a vamp scep are gonna be just as good theres no need to go and spend 1600-1700 gold on wriggles when youre gonna need to sell it in the next 10-20 mins for like 60% of what it cost.
you should never sell an item until you need to slots or reaaaaaally need the money. The doran blade you would likely get to start is what you should sell first, not your lantern. If you are getting full build at 30 then you are fed to a point that the other team should have given up by then. Hell most games I don't even sell it unless I am really missing something. The wards alone make it wonderful. With full build, you have no room for wards, unless you have a wriggles.
Also, I did read it. and counter with: a wriggles has the stats of pretty much all of that combine... plus wards.
Also, I did read it. and counter with: a wriggles has the stats of pretty much all of that combine... plus wards.
Quote:
it costs as much as a bf sword which on a ranged ad carry is normally what you wanna rush, if youre doing bad just go double dorans and a vamp scep. If you have someone like soraka, ali, taric, karma, or sona, you should never ever ever have any issues with sustain if you play smart. The key to it is just farm and poke a little bit, being overly aggressive is stupid and you miss out on way too much farm and then thats when you think your sustain blows.
Don't say never ever also, it happens, trust me. Not always, not mostly but it happens a lot. Even to the pro-est players around, it happens.
shiroi and shinobu talking is confussling, since both of you have no avis... >:
and what is this about janna ?
and what is this about janna ?
but a big reason people get pushed out of lane early is because they are too aggressive which is just silly. You can ask me or lolserj we generally will never leave lane til we have like 150ish farm and like 3-4k gold.
Lol, I hardly ever post, I'm just bored at work. One day I may get an avi...
As for janna: She has a shield that gives dmg and shields are like pretend heals. She has some great CC, a solid slow, the knockup, and the ulti is a direct heal with cc and is amazing at saving lives. All of those go directly from the ability, so you don't even need items for them to work really well. Also, she gives everyone around her (it may be global, cant remember) a movement speed bonus.
As for janna: She has a shield that gives dmg and shields are like pretend heals. She has some great CC, a solid slow, the knockup, and the ulti is a direct heal with cc and is amazing at saving lives. All of those go directly from the ability, so you don't even need items for them to work really well. Also, she gives everyone around her (it may be global, cant remember) a movement speed bonus.
Same for me, I rarely get pushed out of lane. This whole thing is more about if you can't manage to stick it out and which items work best. I agree, if you B with 4k, get an IE or if lanes are still going strong a BT isnt a bad choice, its reliability vs pushing an advantage.
Support Janna, her shield/heal isn't really that impressive, yeah they work, but aren't really effective, unless you build Janna AP, and doing so early game, is a lil counter productive, because you wont get as much gold, you take CS away from your Ranged AD, or if you mid, can get a bad match up easily, and there are other champs who mid better.
Also, it you lvl up her shield then its fine. Levels mean more on those kinds of skills early game. Rarely (if ever, I can't think of anything) will something like a needlessly large rod add more dmg than another skill point in a skill alone.
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Sylph.Zaraku said: »
it costs as much as a bf sword which on a ranged ad carry is normally what you wanna rush, if youre doing bad just go double dorans and a vamp scep. If you have someone like soraka, ali, taric, karma, or sona, you should never ever ever have any issues with sustain if you play smart. The key to it is just farm and poke a little bit, being overly aggressive is stupid and you miss out on way too much farm and then thats when you think your sustain blows.
It's been said, if
also on the topic of why high-elo players may or may not get things
you have to think of the situations and cost-benefit factors of getting different items
you can't just say "Well he says more armor and some life steal is good so im going to get it"
i would never (unless maybe the other AD got fed to an absurd amount or something) get a wriggles over IE on someone like graves or cait
and i've killed AD's who have built wriggle's
it's a good item, but it shouldn't be your goal on a ranged AD
you have to think of the situations and cost-benefit factors of getting different items
you can't just say "Well he says more armor and some life steal is good so im going to get it"
i would never (unless maybe the other AD got fed to an absurd amount or something) get a wriggles over IE on someone like graves or cait
and i've killed AD's who have built wriggle's
it's a good item, but it shouldn't be your goal on a ranged AD
lol, like I keep saying, t wont replace IE but it will more often than not let you farm up to one safer. If you go back and have 4k, get the IE.
Another thing is lasties, to get all of them sometimes you need to take some dmg. Minimizing that dmg taken is very helpful. Also, a lot of the time, using abilities makes it safer but unless you have soraka supporting you, mana becomes a big issues, so pushing your lane and b'ing quick tends to pay off mana wise.
Another thing is lasties, to get all of them sometimes you need to take some dmg. Minimizing that dmg taken is very helpful. Also, a lot of the time, using abilities makes it safer but unless you have soraka supporting you, mana becomes a big issues, so pushing your lane and b'ing quick tends to pay off mana wise.
So basically if you're laning against cait get a wriggles
k
k
If you're not HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE you won't need it
having someone like taric or soraka support you helps you just as much tbh
See, you keep saying things like we are fighting. Are we fighting? You can't assume your opponent will fail. I pretty much mapped out the effectiveness of wriggles. If we are in fact fighting about this, I would very much appreciate your analysis of it.
The best arguments I have seen are that you may sell it later. You would sell dorans later also. I tend to not sell wriggles until very end game. The 30 armor is pretty awesome.
The best arguments I have seen are that you may sell it later. You would sell dorans later also. I tend to not sell wriggles until very end game. The 30 armor is pretty awesome.
Well seeing as how half the time I'm on ranged AD I stay bot until I have enough farm for something like a BF sword + T2 boots, or occasionally IE + T1 boots on first b i just don't see how getting a wriggles is justified
on the occasion when i dont get farm i b and get T2 boots and a red elixir, and thats normally enough to help me get my farm back up
wriggles just isn't necessary on ADs if you arent being stupid and have a good support
if you have a taric you get some bonus armor, and if you have a soraka those heals add a ***ton of armor
so it just isn't necessary compared to the amount of damage I could be doing without one
on the occasion when i dont get farm i b and get T2 boots and a red elixir, and thats normally enough to help me get my farm back up
wriggles just isn't necessary on ADs if you arent being stupid and have a good support
if you have a taric you get some bonus armor, and if you have a soraka those heals add a ***ton of armor
so it just isn't necessary compared to the amount of damage I could be doing without one
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