Koggelmander Vs Soulsaber 4STR 12ATK

Let me brush over a few points real quick:

1) When your job is damage, mp not spent is damage not dealt.

2) How much mp you have doesn't mean ***. How much mp you're getting does. It doesn't matter if you're at 500mp or 50mp, you can't spend mp faster than you get it.

You can be at 500/600 mp and still be doing your job right as long as you're spending mp at a rate equal to that you're gaining.

3) People essentially saying "your spells do the most damage so adding to them is best" are wrong IF you're not EXCLUSIVELY doing spell. You focus on your overall damage output.

Doing 525 spell damage, and 150 sword damage, is not better than doing 500 spell damage and 180 sword damage over a set period of time.

4) Your swords are extremely important because they have far greater growth potential than your Spells.

You can boost a sword's damage substantially with BRD/COR, Food, Debuffs, and Gear. Plus, your sword arm never gets tired.

Spells can only realistically be boosted by STR+, Secondary mods, and debuffs. Spells are also limited by mp flow and to half recast.

So yes, while Spells are your bread and butter for damage, if you're meleeing, DO IT RIGHT.

Way to get unnecessarily aggressive at the person who was going to try to bring some logic and maths to this thread.

When I said ‘enough’ MP, I meant some one who wasn’t constricted by MP (read: sufficient support).

But I see this thread isn’t about being right or wrong, its about *** waving, and you don’t need me for that. So have fun.

A sword that swings more 40 percent more of the time vs sword stats that give you mods for spells and attack added on melee hits. hmmm

I wish I could transfer you here for a good no hate blu burn with parse. I have in the past come to bird camp with several blus with the same belief that the sword would put more output damage, and you are right it did. However I cannot say you would be weak as I cannot see your item sets nor gear period, I will say this, they always lack by 10% easily. I still see no need for that sword till 1 it is finished with maybe something useful or 2 we have a ws that is ridiculous aka atonement for pld type ws.

I see your point with max all fronts of blu out to be the best DD possible. However the sword procs I think 40% it is, when proper build of str i think 151 total at birds would push your spells into ridiculous compared to other blus. Play how you wish but I couldn't play it that way, I don't swing enough at given mobs at any given time, cept maybe limbus and well it dies fast due to the LS i go with. Aside from that /thf adventures i don't melee much, and /nin means i need to survive and feeding a mob who has the potential to tp and kill the rest of the ls or put stress on the support or tanks isnt the brightest idea. However I end game and a lot of mobs you do not want to feed tp to. I am not being rude to you so i hope that your harsh words are not pointed in my direction and again if that is how you want to play blu go for it. However I am interested in your item sets for the rest of what you do with blu.

I guess there are mobs out there that can't be stunned by Head Butt.. idk if you full time blu.. but using 12mp every 5 sec to cast head butt for 100+ dmg is kinda wasted if the stun cant kick in

On another side.. if you solo a lot and you keep head butt blocking mobs, its really nice to have an extra swing to gain TP. U usually can land 1-2 swings during the recast of headbutt. so gaining more TP during casting can be essential too to finish off the mobs with some nice SC

i gotta agree with brains on one point tho, if you go do einherjar or any other zerg (if you main blu at every event) you'll get lots of att+ boosts from brds+cor... generally not makign your BLU spells stronger (if there isnt enough time to do etudes). Also BLU can clear his MP pool pretty fast, so after you spent all your MP you basically are limited to your swords and wait till you have enough MP to do a big 3 spell

I will end on this note, it is dependant on what you are doing and what support. Most of the time I am lucky to get whatever song/rolls/and refresh I need/want. If you are unable to get any support to keep mp up then meleeing is the only option. As well if blu is your only job to use, I suppose it cannot hurt to max melee pending mobs tp moves. I do use blu and requested to use my blu alot end game, however I am lucky to get what I need and cannot be a *** to those who may not have that option. Kudos to expecting not having that support and attempting to extend your dmg even under those conditions, perhaps some day you will have the support you need to not run out of mp or the support to max gear on spell casting gear, and hopefully I dont have to get that sword due to never having buffs. GL

Currentlly all I really use blu for is einharjar usually. Generally I'm in the blm pt getting at 1-3 forms of outside refresh and maybe some conserve mp and occasionally haste. Needless to say I rarely get to 100% tp once between CAs I'm casting so much.

The other day I was put into a melee pt. I was getting haste samba, haste and double march. Now forgetting the fact that I was gaining mp really slow aside my dot with perdu/koggles was rather insane. Enough where I mostly just kept triumphant roar on myself and def down on the mob being fought and went to town.

I still completely fail to see the point in ever casting Triumphant Roar, unless it's used with Diffusion. CBF doing the math, even if I knew it, but pretty sure the time it takes to cast, plus the cost in MP means you'll be doing less total damage because of it.

As much as I don't like Brain's attitude, I know exactly where he's coming from and he's spot on the money. Spells are, and always will be our biggest form of damage, but it doesn't mean you should simply neglect melee damage.

Personally, I pretty much only do Salvage at the moment, and I've only recently stopped doing nyzul 4-5 times a week for a year and a half straight. In salvage and assault, I full-time Balrahn's ring, have refresh from rdm and ballad 2 from a brd with storm fife. Basically, I have MP coming out the wazoo. This means that even when I have a steady supply of mobs to kill, that I quite often don't have 100 tp when CA roles around, and that's my reason for wanting an Antea.

Unless/until I get an Antea/Koggel/Concordia, I doubt I'll be getting rid of my Erlking's (although I should try for a better one), because I like the acc and macc, in fact, probably only Concordia (or Hofud, but I got screwed over in my last Einherjar shell and don't do it any more) would make me replace it.

Ok, I've no idea wtf my point was, people shouldn't let me type this late at night.

This is really the crux of the argument, from my view. Both sides are arguing from slightly different contexts.

One side is arguing (due to buffs, support, other DD participants in the event, DOT applied to mobs, debuffs to mobs) that the hypothetical 525/150 damage is more valuable because this, combined with all other unspoken-but-typically-applicable support factors will result in the quicker destruction of the mob, with individual DOT less of a factor. This is certainly the case in events like Dynamis or Limbus or Einherjar or "burns" where safety for the alliance depends on high amounts of up-front/alpha strike damage and the regular-mob-enemies being defeated faster.

The other context would be where low-support or sustained fighting occurs where the MPs have all been spent and cannot be realistically regenerated fast enough for more "alpha strikes", and victory is based on endurance and DOT and ekeing out enough MPs in time for a CA-WS, relying on regular WS in the down-time. In this case for certain the 500/180 hypothetical damage figure comes into play. Long battles versus HNM or enemies with incredibly high defense or resistances to damage in general, or low-man event settings, would tend to favour this emphasis on DOT.

I think the reasons for the hard feelings is that BLUs find themselves in both situations, and due to different end-game events, some BLUs find themself in one "typical BLU" situation over another. This results in the "you don't know what you're talking about" assessment upon disagreement, because of a difference of opinion of which type is more prevalent.

That being said, although I would think the first case (with super high support and dependable Devotion slathered on whenever it is up) is the "optimal" BLU situation, planning for the second case (where you are scraping together whatever MPs from equipment-refresh, MP Drainkiss, MP-draining sources, Conserve MP, etc. you can feasbily get) is wise and should be considered by everyone playing BLU. The game is slowly moving toward low-man-everything with smaller gaming populations, so considering this aspect becomes more important all the time.

Yeah normally I don't use triumphant roar outside of diffusion, me getting enough haste and or little enough mp where I'm meleeing alot, or fighting high def/lvl stuff that just kills my spell dmg. In those situations however it is quite useful

Who the hell is argettio? Getting his panties in a wad like someone was talking to him...God I hope we can survive without someone to hold our hands while we do 6th grade math!?

Seriously guy, I already applied logic and math. Some people just didn't apply reading comprehension.

When you focus on damage, even when getting 10mp a tic Refresh you should be casting once every 21 seconds, that means you got 20.5 seconds to wail on ***.

As for my gear:

TP


Working on Aesir Ear Pendant. Most of my free time is spent farming Grah chips for my torque and doing trials.

Switch in Arcuben's and tiercel when overcapped on ACC.

Currently saving for Speed Belt, Dusk+1, and Cerb+1 while waiting for Salvage to start up again.

Big3


Triumph's are the 2 newest additions, and I do Dea when ls does ZNM, stupid subligar refuses to drop.

Perdu is actually in the mainhand.

To be fair, BLU can outstrip its refresh rate almost effortlessly even in high buff situations. The rest is just Brain being Brain, which is why I haven't bothered posting here previously.

If you check my very first post I never said spells was all you cast or said anything negative of melee dmg. I said "***is situational" right from the start. I'm just rarely in a situation where antea is better, which is why i'm making a generalized stance, as not many ppl are in that situation. He's getting violent saying antea is the end-all-be-all in all situations. I think the only situation he agreed to was when you are not meleeing at all, which is nearly never.

I'm not hardcore on any stance, i'm making a generalized statement on what is generally the best. I'm not stubborn. I'm just aware of what is best for what is mostly being done. I told him to do whatever he wanted, just don't make up HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE math that only applies to DDs that don't cast or interrupt their swinging with spells/abilities often.

I still find it ironic he keeps picking out HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE things like "headbutt spam is useless if the mob isn't stunnable", No ***. I said clearly it's for when you need to stunlock ***to make it easier for tanks and/or interrupt "stunnable" casting mobs. This is from the same guy that said we all have horrible reading comprehension.

Idk i'm just baffled, he's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, does not read posts, and refuses to have an intelligent discussion without insulting ppl, which ironically makes him look bad, then again this is the ffxiah.com boards....

inb4 "you said you wouldn't post again."

This. Why are you guys rating him down? I know he's being harsh, but he's not saying anything wrong. He's not saying melee damage beats out spell damage, but you need to be smart with your increases to both. Just because damage from spells outparses damage from meleeing/WS, doesn't mean you should completely neglect boosts to melee damage. Once that MP runs dry if you don't have enough refresh to keep it going you'll find yourself running dry with that MP pool of yours. In before "***is situational".

You're a bit late, my very first post said that.

Never once did I point out the obvious headbutt being useless if the mob isn't stunnable you illiterate retard.

I said know when head butt is needed, and know when just spamming headbutt is a waste of a party slot. Gigantic difference.

Also, you're the *** that started talking down to people in the first place.

Has anyone ever done the math to include the amount of TP that you've built up when casting a spell? Besides the STR & DEX modifiers, doesn't the amount of tp you've gained have an effect on the damage said spell will do? Looking at the big 3 spells, tp does play a part in how much damage output. Everyone seems to have overlooked how much tp plays in your overall sword/spell damage. To me, one complements the other or am I wrong?

Only under CA, so that's not really relevant for /NIN melee situations.

You guys are arguing for nothing...due to TOTM the new best sword combo will be soulsaber/antea ...why because as i assumed and SE confirmed you can further upgrade these 2 weapons after final to make then into weapons that you will use @ lv 99...meaning these 2 will surpass Kogg Perdu Concordia(unless they make it further augment able via synergy)and the current soulsaber(final)although Antea has already surpassed them...so long story short...Soulsaber/Antea FTW @ lvs 80+

When you use chain affinity it removes ur tp to buff ur next spell when you cast it. It has a recast timer and isn't spammed though. It's usually used, /nin anyway, to self-sc and you lose most of the tp from the opening ws, so it's not like antea will really boost the leftover tp that goes into the sc spell.

Regardless of how ignorant ppl reading my posts are, I'm NOT saying antea is bad, or that melee dmg is either. I'm just saying antea isn't usually going to be the ideal sub sword you want on /nin in MOST situations. I don't solo/lowman where I run out of mana and melee for the majority of my dmg, that being said, I refer anyone who reads this to my very first post, "***'s situational". I've had a stance of what BLU should generally use this whole time, brain has had a die-hard, stubborn view on Antea being the best regardless of the situation and insulting anyone who disagrees with him the whole time.

Brain is just ignorant to BLU and doesn't understand how to comprehend what he reads, so he resorts to insulting me and getting angry while not even reading fully what I have said. I will end with this, U MAD?

Edit: @Kalico, true at 80+ but there will also be new weapons not just magian ones, one of them might be a better version of koggle, concord ect. There's really no telling. I'm just trying to discuss the current sword combos. Though tbh it has devolved into brain making an *** of himself, I've already made my points clear and most agree... he won't really be reasonable so there's not much of a discussion.

Its funny seeing the illiterate post. I'm also not angry, this is how I talk ***.

You can talk about spell spamming all you want. When you're talking about dealing damage though, the Antea is always the best, end of story. Even when casting Disseverment, it being your strongest spell, at every single chance you get, meaning the instant your mp ticks into enough for it, you have to actively try to reduce your sword damage for a 5-20 damage boost to your strongest spell to perform better. Even as /NIN with no Suppa and only Refueling as haste, 0 in gear, you should still do more more total damage. The better your tp gear, the larger the advantage. That's before considering the increased WS frequency.

I understand Blue Mage a lot more than you want to admit, a lot better than you do.

*straightens his Fortitude torque*

While it's true that they appear to be adding more trials for the trial weapons they have also mentioned opening the trials to more gear allowing your top gear to still stay good. So for all you know koggles will get just as buffed as soulsaber but start out with more

I was wondering what people think about Shiva's Shotel. I don't ever see anyone mention it but I was thinking it would be good for Magic Burst.

MIght have something to do with the fact blus don't generaly MB. Saving BA for that generally lowers your dmg potential. OH and ya know it's pretty rare and all

Rare and high delay seems to be common complaints, still wouldn't mind collecting that sword as well. Se seems to give us lame models lately maybe final swords from ToM's will be cool looking, or maybe new relic sword for blu, that's what im holding out for.

Also depends on what you're MBing. The Shotel wouldn't do anything for MP Drainkiss, for instance... even when it does help it won't compensate for the ridiculous delay though.

It's a terrible weapon that takes way too much effort to get.

Shotel isn't "terrible", just need a constant Shiva out for potential. So maybe good with SMN buddy.

Brain comes off as a complete and utter doucheface, but he is for the most part correct. Alot of you BLUs these days concentrate WAY too much on spells as if it's the end all and forget that Sword and Spell goes hand-in-hand for the job.

In the perfect scenario one should be building TP with sword play, then readying up for self-skillchain, followed by a spell or two right after so that overall sword DPS is not lost (Also considering your BLUs personal refresh rate). To that end, OAT Antea is currently the best offhand sword.

P.S.: Of course I know the scenario changes to where self-SC isn't possible and will have to blow their load in spells (Einherjar/Dynamis), but that's not to mean Sword still shouldn't be neglected. For example busting 600~1200 Vorpals is very easy to do in Einherjar with the right gear set up and BRD|COR.

Perhaps I missed it, but did you include the acc increase from koggelmander? This should typically be included, as blu isn't going to jump on capping acc as easily as 2hders. This is also why the dex/acc soulsaber is going to be a better choice for meleeing in many situations. (argument: i use sushi! if u can get enough acc to eat meat, then it'll help your melee DoT even better)

You have to take into account, many blu's have a spell/melee/ws split. The general consensus (which agrees with my experience) is roughly 50-55% spells/30-35% melee/15ish% ws. So when you do your calculations, make sure to multiply times the percent of damage it is. In our case, aspects that increase spell damage is going to be more substantial than melee. I am an adamant tp build supporter but I do not ignore my spells.

Uncapped acc, not hitting for 0 > dex/acc soulsaber

Capped acc or constantly hitting for 0 > str/att soulsaber

Kogglemander will generally parse close to either, losing or winning depending on the situation

Antea becomes better the more buffs to melee you're getting and the less mp you can spend, but isn't necessarily end all

Perdu helpful to spells and melee from latent affects

Sh*t is situational. As always.

Pizza wruuuuuuuuu

Shouldn't need the DEX Soulsaber in most situations with good gear.

Yeah but what if dex soulsaber plus maybe some more acc somewhere helps take you from pizza to real meat? You wouldn't need it but it would still be kinda nice then