Exponential is a cool term used by idiots that don't know what the *** they are talking about.
Haste effect on delay : linear. 0% > 1% haste cuts 1% of the delay, and 50%>51% also cuts 1% of the delay.
Haste effect damage : Invertly proportial to haste.
Most idiots claim it's exponential. Those person should go back to school and learn what exponential means. x->1/x is not exponential.
Haste Is NOT Exponential...
Haste is NOT exponential...
One problem with your chart though dasva... A simple figure-check shows 90% haste is a 89% increase in physical attack speed. 1.111 / 0.101 (the number of attacks per sec at 90% haste, and at 0% haste) = 11. Since the numbers are rounded, it comes out at 11, which is your remainder from the 89% haste increase. If anything, haste has a diminishing return... Cuz that 89 is supposed to be a 90, though its as close as mathematically possible to 90 as it can be if you don't round any numbers.
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Bismarck.Dracondria said:
Shut the *** up already Korpg, Jesus Christ.
Asura.Korpg said:
U mad?
He mad.
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Your chart has 99% haste as 0 delay. That's what I'm calling wrong. When did I say the same thing? I never claimed 99% haste to be 0 delay.
Oh I see it's just a reading comprehension problem. Actually it says Old haste of 99% having a delay of 6. And that the new (ie old+1 as explained up top) to be 0
At least, I think we can admit the mistake isn't as bad as using "their" instead of "they're" or vice versa.
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
At least, I think we can admit the mistake isn't as bad as using "their" instead of "they're" or vice versa.
I mentally choke people that make this mistake.
[+]
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
At least, I think we can admit the mistake isn't as bad as using "their" instead of "they're" or vice versa.
Their just mad cause they got sand in they're vaginas, maybe?
Ramuh.Haseyo said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
At least, I think we can admit the mistake isn't as bad as using "their" instead of "they're" or vice versa.
I mentally choke people that make this mistake.
My goodness, a forum where the black people are the ones disgusted w/ poor grammar!
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Phoenix.Kojo said:
Their just mad cause they got sand in they're vaginas, maybe?
That's just epic. Their gonna be so mad you used the wrong there their.
Totally off topic, Tiger's display thing is awesome. Made my day. Thank you. Continue with the hasty haste talk.
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When I saw Vegetto first claim it was an exponential increase over time, I did a bit of number crunching with a friend in game just to see if what he said was true.
Here is a VERY VERY hypothetical/controlled example. I am going to break it up into parts and then piece it together. Also, bear with me please, I have to use a lot of ^ keys to show exponents on digits and units.
(Haste*Delay)/60 = Modified attack delay every ^(second-1). Real time delay is just the weapon delay divided by 60 in case anyone didn't know; so....
Let's say, for the sake of simplicity, you have a weapon with 600 delay, you have no DA, no outside haste, and you consistantly do 100 damage on every hit.
(600)/60 = 10^(s^-1) between every attack *10^(s^-1)=1/10s*
Now take 60s times 10^(s^-1) and you get 6 attacks per minute since, unit wise. Multiply 6 attacks per minute times 60 minutes now. You get 360 attacks per hour.
Take 360 attacks per hour times 100 (average damage dealt per hit) and you get 36000 damage/hour.
Now, manipulate your amount of haste. I'll say 10% haste is now granted. So...
(.10*600)=60 >>> 600-60= 540/60 = 9^(s^-1) >>>
60s(9^(s^-1))= 6.67 attacks per minute *60 minutes/hour =
400.2 attacks per hour x 100 damage per attack =
40020 damage per hour
Last one I promise, 20% haste now
(.20*600)=120 >>> 600-120= 480/60 = 8^(s^-1) >>>
60s(8^(s^-1))= 7.5 attacks per minute *60 minutes/hour =
450 attacks per hour x 100 damage per attack =
45000 damage per hour
Graph the damage per hour and you'll notice it's not linear meaning the gains are exponential :P
Here is a VERY VERY hypothetical/controlled example. I am going to break it up into parts and then piece it together. Also, bear with me please, I have to use a lot of ^ keys to show exponents on digits and units.
(Haste*Delay)/60 = Modified attack delay every ^(second-1). Real time delay is just the weapon delay divided by 60 in case anyone didn't know; so....
Let's say, for the sake of simplicity, you have a weapon with 600 delay, you have no DA, no outside haste, and you consistantly do 100 damage on every hit.
(600)/60 = 10^(s^-1) between every attack *10^(s^-1)=1/10s*
Now take 60s times 10^(s^-1) and you get 6 attacks per minute since, unit wise. Multiply 6 attacks per minute times 60 minutes now. You get 360 attacks per hour.
Take 360 attacks per hour times 100 (average damage dealt per hit) and you get 36000 damage/hour.
Now, manipulate your amount of haste. I'll say 10% haste is now granted. So...
(.10*600)=60 >>> 600-60= 540/60 = 9^(s^-1) >>>
60s(9^(s^-1))= 6.67 attacks per minute *60 minutes/hour =
400.2 attacks per hour x 100 damage per attack =
40020 damage per hour
Last one I promise, 20% haste now
(.20*600)=120 >>> 600-120= 480/60 = 8^(s^-1) >>>
60s(8^(s^-1))= 7.5 attacks per minute *60 minutes/hour =
450 attacks per hour x 100 damage per attack =
45000 damage per hour
Graph the damage per hour and you'll notice it's not linear meaning the gains are exponential :P
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their once was a man from america he was my best friend. one day we went to climb tree's and he said look over they're those people are in a hot air balloon there crazy! i looked him right in the eyes and said your my best friend, let me return you're kite.
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Phoenix.Kojo said:
Their just mad cause they got sand in they're vaginas, maybe?
That's just epic. Their gonna be so mad you used the wrong there their.
Please forgive the ^(S^-1) *** units, I have no clue how to do exponent functions on this so yeah :P
Quote:
Graph the damage per hour and you'll notice it's not linear meaning the gains are exponential :P
As stated by the OP and others, this isn't a discussing of damage returns, but strictly the rate of attacks.
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Shiva.Flionheart said:
their once was a man from america he was my best friend. one day we went to climb tree's and he said look over they're those people are in a hot air balloon there crazy! i looked him right in the eyes and said your my best friend, let me return you're kite.
I'll just leave this here.
leviathan.Duvessa said:
one problem with your chart though dasva... A simple figure-check shows 90% haste is a 89% increase in physical attack speed. 1.111 / 0.101 (the number of attacks per sec at 90% haste, and at 0% haste) = 11. Since the numbers are rounded, it comes out at 11, which is your remainder from the 89% haste increase. If anything, haste has a diminishing return... Cuz that 89 is supposed to be a 90, though its as close as mathematically possible to 90 as it can be if you don't round any numbers.
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Phoenix.Kojo said:
Bismarck.Dracondria said:
Shut the *** up already Korpg, Jesus Christ.
Asura.Korpg said:
U mad?
He mad.
[+]
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Phoenix.Kojo said:
Their just mad cause they got sand in they're vaginas, maybe?
That's just epic. Their gonna be so mad you used the wrong there their.
I know, i was expanding upon the joke :o
People probably think we're weird, but i always have fun talking about game mechanics lol. I enjoy having someone to debate with.
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Quote:
Graph the damage per hour and you'll notice it's not linear meaning the gains are exponential :P
As stated by the OP and others, this isn't a discussing of damage returns, but strictly the rate of attacks.
>.> Same ***. Higher rate of attack = more damage return.
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Quote:
Exponential is a cool term used by idiots that don't know what the *** they are talking about.
Haste effect on delay : linear. 0% > 1% haste cuts 1% of the delay, and 50%>51% also cuts 1% of the delay.
Haste effect damage : Invertly proportial to haste.
Most idiots claim it's exponential. Those person should go back to school and learn what exponential means. x->1/x is not exponential.
Haste effect on delay : linear. 0% > 1% haste cuts 1% of the delay, and 50%>51% also cuts 1% of the delay.
Haste effect damage : Invertly proportial to haste.
Most idiots claim it's exponential. Those person should go back to school and learn what exponential means. x->1/x is not exponential.
This is the most correct, but at this point, it's semantics. My main point is that it isn't linear and the returns are increasing. As for the actual terminology, I frankly don't give a ***.
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I think your chart was just very poorly made... Because that's not what it says at all, Dasva. Lol
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Phoenix.Kojo said:
Their just mad cause they got sand in they're vaginas, maybe?
Yep.
Ramuh.Urial said:
Phoenix.Kojo said:
Bismarck.Dracondria said:
Shut the *** up already Korpg, Jesus Christ.
Asura.Korpg said:
U mad?
I just ignore it.. or jump in and agg ***on.
You can also use 600/200 and get the same answer.
Making 1/(200/600) is the same *gasp* as saying 600/200.
You can put any numbers and get the same change. But that doesn't prove that Haste has changed.
Even using your example:
40% haste with a 1800 delay = 600
80% haste with a 1800 delay = 200
But what bearing does this have to Haste's effect?
It effects delay by a straight percentage. Your swings (delay) is only directly affected by a straight percentage. Haste's effect is a straight, linear return. You are saying that Haste's effect is exponential, which means that adding 1% haste would lower your delay by greater than the previous addition to haste. That is what you are implying.
But then again, you also implied Delay lowering by a set amount, meaning adding 1% haste lowers the delay at the same amount as the previous addition which is linear.
That is what people are saying. Haste is not exponential. But your return (damage over time) is, thanks to the change in your delay.
Learn to read.
Making 1/(200/600) is the same *gasp* as saying 600/200.
You can put any numbers and get the same change. But that doesn't prove that Haste has changed.
Even using your example:
40% haste with a 1800 delay = 600
80% haste with a 1800 delay = 200
But what bearing does this have to Haste's effect?
Asura.Korpg said:
B) Where change of haste determines haste's effect. How 1% change in haste leads to a 5% change in its effect. Like your example shows. Show your work without assumptions.
It effects delay by a straight percentage. Your swings (delay) is only directly affected by a straight percentage. Haste's effect is a straight, linear return. You are saying that Haste's effect is exponential, which means that adding 1% haste would lower your delay by greater than the previous addition to haste. That is what you are implying.
But then again, you also implied Delay lowering by a set amount, meaning adding 1% haste lowers the delay at the same amount as the previous addition which is linear.
That is what people are saying. Haste is not exponential. But your return (damage over time) is, thanks to the change in your delay.
Learn to read.
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Ramuh.Haseyo said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
At least, I think we can admit the mistake isn't as bad as using "their" instead of "they're" or vice versa.
Grammar nazi ftl
Asura.Dajociont said:
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Quote:
Graph the damage per hour and you'll notice it's not linear meaning the gains are exponential :P
As stated by the OP and others, this isn't a discussing of damage returns, but strictly the rate of attacks.
>.> Same ***. Higher rate of attack = more damage return.
Once again, damage has absolutely no bearing on this discussion at all. You get a higher damage return by capping acc, adding attack, adding str and double attack etc etc etc. It has too many variables to factor into this discussion.
The entire point of this thread was to demonstrate the linear relationship between haste and delay.
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Leviathan.Pimpchan said:
Haste effect damage : Invertly proportial to haste.
Most idiots claim it's exponential. Those person should go back to school and learn what exponential means. x->1/x is not exponential.
Most idiots claim it's exponential. Those person should go back to school and learn what exponential means. x->1/x is not exponential.
Or go back to school to learn to spell proportional. Just sayin...
If all that is argued is that Haste doesn't effect delay exponentially...well no ***it doesn't ><
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