December 2017 Version Update

I can do a single WS and permanently have hate off of Rua's robot. It can't hold hate worth a ***because it has ***CE/VE generation. PLD's and RUN's actually have a decent shot of holding hate off me 60~75% of the time robots have 0%. Holding hate off of SMN / BST or relic RNG's is easy, a fresh 99 gimped PLD can easily do that while half asleep, that doesn't define a great tank. Holding hate off a fully buffed DD going whole full throttle is what defines a great tank. Robots are just invincible so are useful in fights where your not using high offensive strategies and instead just trying to survive.

VE and E are jokes, I can solo those with trusts on any job.

We did Intense on Easy to see how it went last night. PLD/BLU AND RNG/NIN with some trusts. The adds aoe is avoidable if you run out like that month with the qutrub. PLD did fine ochain better choice than aegis here. I Tanked disengaged. Mp was an issue for sure though, but no real buffs or healers. We lost to the add before we knew what it was doing. So we added a GEO from LS2 and smoked it pretty fast. Same with harpy, PLD RNG GEO killed VD in less than 7 min? Gonna be an easy month if ya have ranged DD

We know what cause's the add to do it's "WTF I WIN" move yet?

just by eyeballing it, but it looks like its % based for the ADD(s) on intense.

They do have access to the Heyoka set which is a princely amount of enmity, along with strobes + flashbulb. The problem is they don't succeed vs high powered DDs since the DPS hate accumulation will take the attention away from the robot too quickly. They rely on their Job Ability timers (and whatever minor dps they can dish out, which isn't much in a DT set) to hold the monster's attention. Will they tank great vs an AG empy DRK with capped stats? Absolutely not. It's a different type of tank, and people need to open their eyes to this.

With that being said, most of these strategies that involve a Puppetmaster do not mesh well with standard DPS. There are a handful of other setups that work really well with PUP tanking, the main thing being where you want to tank from afar and not have to deal with nasty 1-shot/status moves (which the robot can survive like no player can). The good thing is they are entirely self-sufficient and they open the door for other strategies, while still providing a good tanking base with minimal assistance. They can sit in outside parties and still be effective, opening a slot in main group for another party member to receive full buff attention. They can be used deliberately to eat moves like Bravado, or hold the attention of a monster long enough for the team to full recover. They are not Paladins or RUNs by any means, they are different. Doesn't mean they can't fulfill the task of tanking when necessary.

Sadly, there are only a handful of rolls that can buff a pet, none of which regulate enmity. Whereas the player has every buff imaginable to turn them into demi gods. Even still, PUP is very useful for unique strategies, and is damn engaging to play as well. No need for the PUP hate.

Then it's not a tank.

A "tank" has two jobs that are critical.

#1 Hold the NM's attention of other members of the party
#2 Reduce the damage taken sufficiently to not die

Failing either of those immediately discounts it as a tank.

Strobe / Flash = WAR/PLD with a single full time set.

The robot isn't changing gear and the masters gear is a pale imitation of what a real tanks set looks like. The robot's not capping recast and thus not spamming hates moves every 3~6 seconds like a real tank does. It's not doing Precast -> Midcast gearswaps to optimize job performance.

The only thing a PUP "tank" brings to the table is their nearly indestructible nature. They don't hold hate worth a damn but they don't die either. So if you can create a party the generates nearly no hate, you can use a PUP to "tank". Meaning other pet jobs or relic RNG's.

In an instance like that, isn't PUP a really good tank then? No need for the quotes. You are being awfully harsh on a job that hadn't had much of a purpose for years until the attachment expansion allowed them to reliably tank things. In my rag-tag troupe of friends we often use a PUP / Low enmity generation party comp when we low man rather difficult things(In relation to our gear/skill, easy things otherwise).

I think by nature, it isn't solely a "tank", but it can fill that role in specific groups (i.e. disposable or controlled hate). Good thing about PUP is that it has multiple roles that it can fill. A very crude example would be a pet BLU. The problem being that you can't directly control the pet, only influence its actions by Maneuvers. But it does have a place in tanking, in some scenarios.
You even admitted as such.

Not everything is black and white, there is room for some flexibility more than 80% of the time.

I mean like I was saying that for years already. The automaton is damn near indestructible (when used properly) but it can't maintain hate for ***. aside from the fact it will lose hate very quickly to a real dd, any form of hate reset and its game over, the auto will -never- get hate back.

I don't really know why it's being discussed though.

The only thing great about pup is how great it is at simply being mediocre.

So you say robot is not a tank, but can be a tank? :)

Being less versatile and less tanky only means that you are worse tank than something else, not that you aren't tank at all. Now robot being less versatile has also higher survivability, so you can argue he is worse tank, but saying it's not a tank at all is just wrong.

I don't think people disagreeing with your conjecture makes them snowflakes. Also the statement you quoted is false equivalence because there really isn't any scenarios where MNK is a great DD or SMN is a great healer but their are specific comps where PUP is a great tank.

The PUP/MNK/SMN comparisons are completely illogical but what's new

You have one guy who edits every one of his posts 10 seconds after writing it and reading the responses, and then you have Saevel. Let's move on here, both are unreasonable.

Let’s just get back on topic, or discuss pup tanking on it’s forums. Thanks

It's very accurate. Especially when taken in light of the posters who are present.

PUP is as much a tank as MNK is a DD and SMN is a healer, or support if you want to feel better.

You have an entire coalition of players, who are present on this very thread, trying to argue for using MNK as a DD when it's ***compared to the rest. Then there is the people arguing to use PUP as a tank, when it's ***compared to the rest. Then strangely enough the exact same people trying to argue to use SMN as a support / healer when it's ***compared to the rest.

Job X is great, when all other competition is removed and it becomes the only choice. Now that's an illogical statement for everyone.

So for Ambuscade, does Shockwave seem to sleep the adds?

Grr I just thought of this! Lol good question

You're right. The game should just remove 17 jobs. They are completely irrelevant. We only want the 'best'. everything else is crap not worth existing.

1 BEST for each role I can think of... oh wait never-mind. why have different roles and balances?

Remove all jobs except the one I design. Its called god, because that's the only role suited to me

Lol

Considering that there is no balance, and square has failed every attempt at balance they have ever tried....

Sarcasm is lost.

It would be a better game if they just focused on the 4 jobs people actually play.

I never said any of that, just you hyperventilating on an internet forum.

When you weigh the usefulness of something you must compare it to other things that could also be used. With tanks you realistically have three other choices, PLD, RUN and NIN. NIN usually gets discounted because it suffers from hate generation every since SE nerfed Bind / Blind spam and gave everything shadow wiping / ignoring attacks. That leaves RUN and PLD as the things to compare against. With DD's your looking at WAR/DRK/SAM/DRG for the big guns then BLU/NIN/THF/DNC/RNG/COR for the utility DD's. For support buffing your looking at GEO, BRD, COR and for support healing you have WHM, RDM, SCH.

PUP is a ***tank, MNK is a ***DD and SMN is a ***support / healer. Doesn't mean you can't "make it work", and there are some valid strategies that involve those jobs. The presence of a valid strategy doesn't change the overall ***value of those jobs.

What's really funny is the amount of emotional investment people here have to a set of job class's in a video game. Get a rescue dog or something.

I want to say this is the pot calling the kettle black, except in this instance the kettle is like blue or something.

When said valid strategies are the easiest way to beat some relevant content, it does change the value of those jobs. There are no (important) fights where jobs like Monk are involved in the easiest strategy, but that's not true of PUP tanking.

Man you are so dogmatic and rigid. I wonder if you see the world in black and white as opposed to full color...