Auric/Kila VS Kila/Blau

At first post i was trying to point how Auric Dagger can be very good dagger choice if a THF would like to CAP *Subtle Blow* [50 max].

Since you can't post more then 1 comment out there, i figured to post here and hope Karbuncle from Asura can see it.

First of all, the +6 dmg from a SUB weapon wont account in DMG for Sneak attack, Trick attack or Weapon skill, but the Extra +16 attack and +5 accuracy from a SUB weapon will do.

Main dagger from 36 to 44 dmg will do almost SAME DMG from a WS, bc [fSTR] = your MAIN DMG weapon divided by 9 and rounded. so 36 to 44 dmg = -4 to 12 [min/max] fSTR.

Can be personal choice to choose DEX over STR on Kila, of course since DEX is 30% mod on Dancing Edge, but that 6 DEX wont do that much if your STR too poor to pierce mob VIT.

Of course if you just fighting EP mob, DEX worth it since you are already maxed on STR VS EP mob VIT.

Mmmm, I'm glad i can peeve you so much that you'd start a thread about it =)

First of all: NO *** Sub weapon damage doesn't count i was saying +5DMG incase for some unbeknown reason you would Main-hand the kila over Auric *this is in comp. to Blau's Base Damage*, Secondly, 5acc and 16Attack doesn't mean a lot over 6DEX (Damage added to SA if you forgot that) when stacking SA alone, SA/WS is another question but for Dancing Edge and Evisceration and any other Multi-hit THF WS i'm afraid i must say Acc+15 over Blau's Acc+5 is going to win unless you're capping Accuracy, in situations when you're capping Accuracy the 15 attack will win, but you're not capping accuracy on anything Serious without Sushi or Pizza or sacrificing massive amounts of Haste in lieu of accuracy via~armor, which would bring up the situation where you could replace Blau with DEX-Kila and gain 10 Accuracy to introduce more haste to your TP set as well as keeping a strong main hand weapon like Auric.

Its also not always about WS Damage, Raw DPS is an important factor in THF Damage, Not just weaponskills.

a D:39/D:38 Combo with 372 delay will beat out a D:38/:D33 Combo with 368 Delay. And the whole "DEX" vs "STR" Kila, its not about the "DEX", its about the accuracy, That ***-load of accuracy you get one a single weapon can allow a THF to switch from say, Sushi to Pizza, or Pizza to meat, upping their Attack far more than +16. It won't always, but it opens the window to it on more enemies.


In the end DEXkila/Blau can still be a good combo, But Auric/DEXkila wins in more situations than naught, calling it situational is misleading is simply the point i try to make.

DEXkila/Blau can add over 20Acc and 15 Attack through their bonuses, Its a good combo, a great combo even, But the Auric Dagger is still worth getting and still worth using as a combo of Auric/Kila and i'll go as far to say Auric/Blau is still massively useful and allows a THF to maintain a strong Main-hand weapon for Weaponskill Damage and over-all SA Damage to a (lesser) Extent.

Tl:Dr The only reason i posted that comment is because it was misleading, You simply stated bonuses and Delay leaving out the important factor of weapon DMG. Both combos are good but Auric lets you keep a strong main-hand. Accuracy Is important, and Blau is the Situational Weapon now.

I think i covered what i could..


Edit: Cleaned it up a bit nicer =3

And really, could this have not gone to PM's? Do you crave -that- much attention to make it even more public than the weapon page itself?

Karbuncle, what's your opinion on StrKila/DexKila vs DexKila/Blau? Just trying to think up which ones to use since Auric is out of the question for me right now. Currently using the 2 Kilas.

It does depends massively on what you use your THF for

If you're capping accuracy i would suggest 2STR Kilas, but this situation is unlikely if you use your THF for endgame events (not including things like Dynamis/Limbus where you can cap accuracy with average gear and merits), But only if you cap accuracy already while maximizing haste (which is only likely either with Sushi or on T~ or lower enemies, but you could just use your THF for farming in which case this choice is good for you)

If you're lacking massive Accuracy in your events, 2xDEX kila's would be your best bet, strong amounts of Accuracy there, and if you're not massively lacking, they free up other slots for Attack/Haste, like say Cuch > Forages, also free use of Pizza/Meat on some mobs now too =)

If you're a liiitttle bit lacking in Acc, 1STR/1DEX kila would be a great combo, strong over-all DPS, great bonuses too.

Blau could probably substitute one of the DEX kila's in option two, it would be a lose of 10Acc but a gain of 15 atk, acceptable if you're capping accuracy, at which point a STR kila would probably be better (Hence, option 3). Though if you're adamant on only 1 Trial weapon i suggest going whichever you need the most

You're accuracy is capped and you need a boost in damage? STR kila

You're accuracy isn't capped? DEX Kila

The DEX Kila is my upgrade path because even with Pizza and Full merits i find myself hanging around 85% Hit rate on more mobs than i want =( even after swapping around armor sets for situations, this Upgrade will bump me up a good 7% Accuracy hanging me around a respectable area =0

Alright then, thanks alot ^^. I've already completed a Str and a Dex Kila, might go for some more after I finish up my Agi Kilas. I haven't truly done real EG yet, but am trying to, and I believe I fall into option 3 anyway.

-DMG from a sub weapon is factored in weaponskills, since DW gives you an extra hit from your sub, so though it's small, it does have an impact.

-Don't follow what your fStr thing is about. When STR isn't capped rasing STR by (I think) 4? rasies your base DMG. The weapon D in itself should have a noticeable impact on weaponskills regardless of VIT deductions since it will apply to both sets.

-DEX has similar increments to D. That aside you should be gearing for different types of mobs anyway. Ie: Heca body or STR rings for higher level enemies.

Blau isn't as good as it used to be now, Auric/Killa pretty much blows it away. Though you can't really say attack is negligible, since THF still has hard times capping attack on quite a lot of things. So I'd agree with Karbuncle here.

I think they butchered wrank when making that point, not that it makes them any less wrong.

Weapon rank (wrank) is calculated by floor(dmg/9) for non-H2H (floor((dmg+3)/9)) and determines the upper and lower fSTR caps. Min is -wrank (exception: rank 0 is -1), max is wrank+8. fSTR itself is approximated by floor((yourSTR-mobVIT+4)/4).

... Hey i was posting about *Subtle Blow* and you came post a comment in weapon page about mandau when it was not even what i was talkign, then i reply and you continue with more argue. Seriously i did not know main weapon page was more appropriate. you know what, w/e...


Anyway i am still shocked.

Kila38/Blau34 +32 attack +5 Acc +6 STR
OR
Kila38/Blau34 +16 attack +17 Acc +6 DEX

for sure imo beat:

Auric39/Killa38 + 6 STR +16 attack
OR
Auric39/Killa38 + 6 DEX +12 ACC


True but as a single hit, how much more? +60 dmg on WS and how much would be blau on that extra hit? +50 dmg?


/amen.

I don't like these automatic assumptions that everytime you are on thf you either will need tons of extra acc and/or att/str. Cause daggers are so hard to cap fstr on...

To such an extent that attack faster or harder is always worse?

pizza/ice cream dagger ftw!!!

Thinking about that, not 100% sure if is even possible but...

Killa38/Killa38 +6 STR +6 DEX +16 attack +12 ACC

would still beat Auric39/Killa38

but all this is like beating a dead b33f....

To me Auric still a damn good dagger for *Subtle Blow*

Blau is D:33 btw!

Also you won't need tons of acc/atk on THF to cap stuff every time, but if you're fighting mobs you do on your average LS Event you'll want to at least have a fair amount of accuracy/attack to compensate for being a 1handed DD, without sacrificing haste of course (Where possible).

And I didn't say Attack is negligible completely, a Fair balance of Acc/atk/haste is ideal, but you still wan to Value Acc over Attack because you can swing the fastest and hit the hardest but if you whiff 50% of those hits it doesn't mean too much.

For arguments sake i'd go as far as to say STRKila/DEXKila is better than Auric/Kila in a fair deal if situations, damn near all of them, but Blau is not useful anymore except to people who do not have the time or motivation for Magian Trials.

Edit: And yes, 2 Kilas is possible, a time sink, but possible. But by far Auric/Kila will beat any ???/Blau combo, period.

Edit2: And i know this is late, but Auric Daggers is monumentally easier to obtain, also a small factor, making it at the very least a placeholder until you get a Double Kila Combo.

Yes but i still don't really understand why you keep saying Auric should be main handed, you keep telling about how more DEX, how more STR or ACC or attack, but all those stats are NOT even from Auric, all what Auric give more is *Subtle Blow* and *Dual Wield* and +1 DMG.

Of course eventualy blau gonna be dead, but is not yet the case.

if you wan my own opinion, but that only bc i have mandau:

Mandau43/Kila38 +41 Attack +6STR is only combo that OUT DMG mandau/blau [pDIF/fSTR/wrank] wise.

and ONLY bc mercy stroke is 60% STR base. Kila 6DEX 12 ACC with mandau would BE a major waste for mandau owner, except if they plan use only DE, that would be SO LAME.

**Note i would SLAP the first THF i see wearing Mandau/Auric, except in that CASE i was stating on weapon page for *Subtle Blow*.

Well your Case is special, I'm not telling YOU to mainhand it you dumbass, of course you wouldn't do that as a Mandau owner, And if you could even possibly READ i also said for Arguments sake 2x Kila is better Which implies that you wouldn't Mainhand Auric in that situation

Jesus christ did you buy your account or did a Linkshell Fund that relic for you because you're either incredibly stupid or have selective reading habits. Since when has this argument ever been abount Main-handing Auric over Mandau? Seriously? I'm talking about AND EVEN SAID COUNTLESS TIMES "NON-RELIC COMBOS" that Have nothing to do with Mandau.

and furthermore all of your Assumptions and Damage calculations are completely biased because you assume you have capped accuracy on everything, and you will not without either fulltiming Sushi or sacrificing haste for accuracy.

And Fulltiming sushi is not an amazing idea, If the added Acc you get from a DEX kila puts you into a comfortable zone to use Pizza, Guess what? STR+6/Attack+16 is not better than the attack bonus you gain from using Pizza/Pizza+1.

And as i'm SURE i have stated, if that Accuracy from the DEX Kila (And i've stated this part once before) does not allow you to eat pizza, or at the very least swap out something like Cuch Mantle for Foragers/Cerb+1/amemet+1 or Homam body to Raparee harness, then It is of no use to you. I've ADMITTED if you're capping Accuracy on most of your mobs already your best course of Action is STR Kila, its in my Second *** post in this thread.

But for every goddamn situation where that Daggers DEX/acc allows you to implement more Haste or Attack via Armor or food it will kick the ***out of that STR kila.

OH AND AS A REMINDER MOST OF MY INFORMATION IS AND HAS BEEN AIMED AT PEOPLE WHO DO NOT OWN A RELIC

And incase you forgot this i'll also say THIS Again STRkila/DEXkila WILL beat an Auric combo by far, But an Auric combo is still better than a Blau combo if you have at least 1 Kila owned (DEX or STR).

wow calm down... lol

hmm. first of all i say:

Of couse if is possible kila/kila then is sure better then +1 dmg from Auric.

conclusion on all this????

same as i stated on WEAPON PAGE: Situational DAGGER. BUT DAMN GOOD

Auric's 5% DW boost is a +6.67% DoT/x% WS frequency increase on a standard Suppa/DW2 THF. That's pretty hard to match.

Is where i got what you quoted from, Again with the selective reading i guess...


all of your posts and comments say its only useful for SUBTLE BLOW, that's your "situation" and its entirely INCORRECT, Its useful for more than Just subtle blow. it is one of the top teir weapons you can use on THF, only behind Kila(STR) and Mandau/Thwastar, and the STR kila is only useful if you're capping accuracy.

And i should reiterate this more cause you ignored that too, Blau is useless, and heres why:

Need Accuracy?: DEX Kila
Capped Accuracy?: STR Kila
Can only get one kila?: Auric Dagger

Blau is only useful for people to lazy to do Magian trials, which doesn't make it a great weapon, it makes it a fallback for people with more gil than time.

On top of aallll of that, there is no excuse for anyone to not at least own either a Kila, or Auric Dagger, 1 Kila isn't a huge time-sink and Auric Dagger can be gotten with >4 People in less than an hour's worth of effort.

Mandau Owners have other options, non-Mandau owners options are limited, and Auric falls into an easier to obtain high-damage weapon with a nice bonus. Can it be replaced? yes, Does it have more uses than just subtle blow? Hells yes.

Which leads back to my conclusion, it has more uses than Subtle blow, and Blau isn't good anymore for people who take thf seriously and do the Magian trials.

Edit: Also your Thread is called "Auric/Kila vs Kila/blau", and guess what, Auric/Kila wins.

that bc you missed my first post ; ;
i already covered the 5% haste, showing how close Auric/Blau was from mandau/blau.


And more i read you Karbuncle, more i'm shocked, my hit rate is already @ 90%, and i use Red curry bun... idk why you keep involve that ACC/DEX in your math. Can you tell me what is your haste setup sicne you say you have trouble hitting mob whitout sushi?? Did you merit Dagger 8/8?

*edit to fix 90% bc 80% was a mistype.

Theres that selective reading again, I never once said I have problems with accuracy i implied that on most endgame mobs THF's in GENERAL with no merits will have accuracy problems.

also 80% Hit-rate is *** awful, thats 15% under the cap, You should be using Pizza+1 if you're not capping accuracy, no excuses or exceptions.

You need to say more than just "Hur hur i have 80% accuracy with red curry", you need to

A) Tell me what you were fighting, surprisingly not every mob in the game has the same EVA! shocking

B) What your gear set up was, obvious reason

C) Why you continue to provide baseless facts and useless eyeballing hit-rates on mobs you fail to name while trying to take everything i'm saying out of context.


Seriously i'm can't think of a more colorful way to tell you you're wrong.

Starting to think this is a lost cause and you're the type of person who melees in STR rings or something, completely set in their ways

Edit: 90% is more acceptable, but again you need to provide me with what exactly you're fighting that you can maintain a 90% hit rate, because its certainly not everyting with Red Curry unless you're sacrificing massive amounts of Haste in lieu of Accuracy Via armor.

Do that mean now you agree to say Auric is situational dagger for THF?

Do you just read 10% of my posts at a time and respond as slow as possible? You're trying to change your argument now, I said its situations (implying it can be replaced, thusly situational) are far more than what you claim them to be (hint: you say its only useful for a Subtle Blow Build). Its uses go far beyond Subtle Blow, Which is what you apparently refuse to admit and from the begining (Hint: Auric/Kila vs Kila/blau, your thread title) you've been slowly trying to make yourself look like less of an idiot by subtly trying to change what your argument is about.

Your label for "Situational" on this dagger is Subtle blow only, My label on it is as one of the better daggers, though can be replaced, not easily.

I never pretended to claim Auric is irreplaceable, i, from the beginning, simply have argued its uses go far beyond Subtle Blow as you, from the beginning, have claimed.

What ISN'T situational in this game?

What you didn't account for was what if the thf wasn't offhanding blau... or what if he was wearing more than 1 other peice of DW

OMG please don't mix up Dual Wield I, II, III with enhance Dual Wield ><

2x Enhance Dual Wield @ 5% each = 10% and not 15% as do Dual Wield II


And you know what, i am really tire of beating same dead b33f like i said couple post before, Think what you wan, the stats are all up. Do the best with what you think is the best. And hope you all a good day.

Well Hey, i'm not the one who started this thread to "b33f" with you, i merely defended myself.

also, 10% Dual wield from suppa/Auric will stack with Dual Wield II from Support job /NIN.

I'm confused as what you tried to say there is all.

>< i keep writing this wrong.

THF/NIN = Dual Wield II (so 15%)

adding 1x enhance Dual Wield, don't mean you get Dual Wield III [25%] but only 5% so 20%.

is what i mean... Sorry for all confusion my bad.

I've read through this three times to find where you would think someone mentioned it would give DWIII. No one said they believed that.

DW2 => 15%
Suppa => 20%
Auric => 25%

Increase in damage by adding Auric = 5/(100 - (20 + 5))
= 5/75
= 6.67%.

Wtf are you talking about. WHere in my post did is there anything about what you just said?

I'm talking about the fact thf can wear 4 peices of DW gear

idk, just did not figure your comment about 'or what if he was wearing more than 1 other peice of DW' since i say first in my post:

Kila/Blau: 368
Auric/Blau: [with 5% reduction] = 360

wearing more than 1, won't change much anything since i already included the DW in dagger delay.

and ya 8 delay less out of 368 = 2% faster.

for Auric/Kila is [391 - 5%] = 372, 4 delay slower. so 1% slow. [yes i alway comapare Kila/Blau since start again other combo]

..Kila[38]/Blau[34] +32 attack +6 STR +5 ACC. [368 delay]
Auric[39]/.Kila[38] +16 attack STR +5.............. [372 delay 1% slower]
Auric[39]/.Kila[38] +12 Acc DEX +5.................. [372 delay 1% slower]
Auric[39]/Blau[34] +16 attack +5 ACC............. [360 delay 2% faster]


25% adding Auric = 5% more so 30%. I am sorry but the speed from 25% to 30% isnt 6.67% better. Funny mixup that all. And yes i know 5% faster mean 5% more dmg.