Random Politics & Religion #26

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Random Politics & Religion #26
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-07-27 02:38:36  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I'm no psychologist, but the aforementioned suicide rates just might be indicative of a problem....
Is this a problem with those serving? It's easy to take a statistic like suicide rates out of context and twist it into a stigma. Let's see, men have higher suicide rates compared to women. Guess they're out. Native Americans have the highest rate of killing themselves among the ethnicities although whites aren't too far behind so just to be sure, they're both out as well. Rates also go up as people get older so we should definitely consider screening out any oldies. Farmers also have a nasty habit of offing themselves compared to other professions so just to be safe we shouldn't enlist anyone from rural ag-heavy areas. Overall, we're really cutting down on viable enlistees so hopefully Cylon technology isn't too far off.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-07-27 07:06:50  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I'm no psychologist, but the aforementioned suicide rates just might be indicative of a problem....
Is this a problem with those serving? It's easy to take a statistic like suicide rates out of context and twist it into a stigma. Let's see, men have higher suicide rates compared to women. Guess they're out. Native Americans have the highest rate of killing themselves among the ethnicities although whites aren't too far behind so just to be sure, they're both out as well. Rates also go up as people get older so we should definitely consider screening out any oldies. Farmers also have a nasty habit of offing themselves compared to other professions so just to be safe we shouldn't enlist anyone from rural ag-heavy areas. Overall, we're really cutting down on viable enlistees so hopefully Cylon technology isn't too far off.
Since I can't link a study that's free for you to ignore, at least this article from a source that's not CNN or any other notorious media outlets who make ***up on a daily basis states that the transgender population's suicide rates are 41% compared to the national average of about 4$. But hey, I guess you don't care about helping those people, unless it's politically convenient.

Not saying that the current political environment cares either, from either side. But outright dismissing evidence stating that there is a problem is not only wrong, but arrogant for you to do....
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 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-07-27 08:18:23  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Sylph.Cherche said: »
Pragmatism does mean uncaring. A pragmatic decision lacks any emotional involvement or care for social morality or ethics.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Sylph.Cherche said: »
Feel free to give examples that aren't clouded by your own personal biases.

But that's what you... this whole page... can't you see... what?
Again, I'm not the one claiming to be pragmatic.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-07-27 08:49:06  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I guess you don't care about helping those people, unless it's politically convenient.

Have you ever experienced an outpouring of genuine caring from a liberal? They only show faux caring when it's hip, trendy or in style, otherwise they like to punch natzi's.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-07-27 08:52:29  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Perfect example of the limitations of emotions. No way can you reason with an emotional person, they are too set on their ways to change. You are more of a robot than I am.

People who think and decide emotionally can't be rationalized with, it simply gets ignored. Instead you need to manipulate their emotions by openers and context switches which gets them to "like" you and eventually want to agree with whatever you say. Once a person has been emotionally compromised it's nearly impossible for them to realize it or do anything about it, they are little more then lemmings. It's how cults have worked since the beginning of time.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-07-27 09:27:28  
Read two articles this AM that agree with the 15000 YG troops figure.

Connelly: Trump transgender ban would have grounded SEAL team member
Seattle PI

Expelling Transgender Troops Is a Clever Way to Motivate Bigoted Midwestern Voters, White House Explains Proudly

Slate
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-07-27 09:27:48  
TG*

.....
 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2017-07-27 11:36:06  
everyone takes a mental evaluation. If you aren't fit, you shouldn't serve, if you are, you should be able to, period. who you *** or who you were in the past should only matter if it effects your ability to do your job.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-07-27 11:58:22  

And one specifically states that it's a "back of the envelope calculation". In other words, it's not at all reliable.

Meanwhile, the other article cites the number and doesn't say where they got it from. A recent RAND study puts mid-range estimates at around 2450 active and 1510 reserve.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-07-27 12:15:41  
Siren.Mosin said: »
everyone takes a mental evaluation. If you aren't fit, you shouldn't serve, if you are, you should be able to, period. who you *** or who you were in the past should only matter if it effects your ability to do your job.

And that's probably the best stance to take. However, people have to realize that discrimination in broader terms is used by the military all the time out of necessity.

Back in the day I had a couple of recruiters sit me down once and give me the whole spiel. I was not at all interested in combat, but I toyed with the idea of doing data type work in the military. They got to the part about health issues that could disqualify a person from entering, and I told them that I had asthma. They looked at me like I had the bubonic plague. Did it matter that I was born that way, that it was mild and manageable, or that I only wanted a desk job? Nope.

So, if one protected group fails mental/physical evaluations at a higher rate than another group, people just need to accept nature and shut up. But I'm down with at least giving everyone a chance to apply.
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By Nausi 2017-07-27 13:50:45  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Why doesn't the military let in fatties? Discrimination!
Why doesnt the military let in diabetics?

Racism, sexism, transphobia!
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By Nausi 2017-07-27 13:54:54  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I'm no psychologist, but the aforementioned suicide rates just might be indicative of a problem....
Is this a problem with those serving? It's easy to take a statistic like suicide rates out of context and twist it into a stigma. Let's see, men have higher suicide rates compared to women. Guess they're out. Native Americans have the highest rate of killing themselves among the ethnicities although whites aren't too far behind so just to be sure, they're both out as well. Rates also go up as people get older so we should definitely consider screening out any oldies. Farmers also have a nasty habit of offing themselves compared to other professions so just to be safe we shouldn't enlist anyone from rural ag-heavy areas. Overall, we're really cutting down on viable enlistees so hopefully Cylon technology isn't too far off.
This is getting needlessly over conplicated.

Is the suicide rate for men in the service higher or liwer than the public? Higher.

Is it unreasonable to assume that the suicide rate for transgender which is nearly 10x the rate of the public wouldnt be affected in the same manner?
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-07-27 14:19:05  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
But outright dismissing evidence stating that there is a problem is not only wrong, but arrogant for you to do....
Are you this way like for real? I explicilty stated before what I think the problem is and how it should be addressed by not unfairly singling out one group because of faux patriotism. Only thing I'm outright dismissing is your worthless opinion since you can't manage to read properly.
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-07-27 14:23:42  
The Head of the Boy Scouts Just Apologized After Trump's National Jamboree Speech
Time

Quote:
The Chief Scout Executive for the Boy Scouts of America apologized Thursday to anyone in the scouting community who may have been offended or alarmed by President Donald Trump's speech at the organization's National Jamboree earlier this week.

"I want to extend my sincere apologies to those in our Scouting family who were offended by the political rhetoric that was inserted into the jamboree," Michael Surbaugh wrote in a statement. "For years, people have called upon us to take a position on political issues, and we have steadfastly remained non-partisan and refused to comment on political matters. We sincerely regret that politics were inserted into the Scouting program."

During Trump's speech, the President invoked his election victory, slamming both his onetime opponent Hillary Clinton and his predecessor, former President Barack Obama, eliciting a series of boos from the crowd. He also derided what he called the "facts I don't like" media.

Read Surbaugh's statement in full

Quote:
Scouting Family,

In the last two weeks, we have celebrated the best of Scouting at our 20th National Jamboree with nearly 40,000 participants, volunteers, staff and visitors. The 2017 National Jamboree has showcased and furthered the Scouting mission by combining adventure and leadership development to give youth life-changing experiences. Scouts from Alaska met Scouts from Alabama; Scouts from New Mexico met those from New York, and American youth met youth from 59 other countries.

Over the course of ten days, Scouts have taken part in adventures, learned new skills, made new and lasting friendships and completed over 200 community service projects that offered 100,000 hours of service to the community by young men and women eager to do the right thing for the right reasons.

These character-building experiences have not diminished in recent days at the jamboree – Scouts have continued to trade patches, climb rock walls, and share stories about the day’s adventures. But for our Scouting family at home not able to see these real moments of Scouting, we know the past few days have been overshadowed by the remarks offered by the President of the United States.

I want to extend my sincere apologies to those in our Scouting family who were offended by the political rhetoric that was inserted into the jamboree. That was never our intent. The invitation for the sitting U.S. President to visit the National Jamboree is a long-standing tradition that has been extended to the leader of our nation that has had a Jamboree during his term since 1937. It is in no way an endorsement of any person, party or policies. For years, people have called upon us to take a position on political issues, and we have steadfastly remained non-partisan and refused to comment on political matters. We sincerely regret that politics were inserted into the Scouting program.

While we live in a challenging time in a country divided along political lines, the focus of Scouting remains the same today as every day.

Trustworthiness, loyalty, kindness and bravery are just a few of the admirable traits Scouts aspire to develop – in fact, they make up the Scout Oath and Scout Law.

As part of our program’s duty to country, we teach youth to become active citizens, to participate in their government, respect the variety of perspectives and to stand up for individual rights.

Few will argue the importance of teaching values and responsibility to our youth — not only right from wrong, but specific positive values such as fairness, courage, honor and respect for others.

For all of the adventure we provide youth such as hiking, camping and zip-lining, those activities actually serve as proven pathways and opportunities to develop leadership skills and become people of character.

In a time when differences seem to separate our country, we hope the true spirit of Scouting will empower our next generation of leaders to bring people together to do good in the world.

Yours in Scouting,

Mike
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-07-27 14:31:32  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
But I'm down with at least giving everyone a chance to apply.
And this is an infinitely better than a blanket ban if the medical costs were legitimately too high.

Y'know, considering the apparent highball estimate I threw out yesterday would account for 0.01% of the united states military personnel.
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-07-27 14:34:38  
Woo boy, I can math. That should be 1%.
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By Eboneezer 2017-07-27 15:31:43  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
I love how people can look at the suicide rates among LGBT people and instantly ascribe it to some innate defect of the community and not at all an effect of the constant discrimination, marginalization and blatant bullying...


Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Let's see, men have higher suicide rates compared to women. Native Americans have the highest rate of killing themselves among the ethnicities although whites aren't too far behind so just to be sure, they're both out as well. Rates also go up as people get older... Farmers also have a nasty habit of offing themselves compared to other professions so just to be safe we shouldn't enlist anyone from rural ag-heavy areas.

That's weird, after reading your first quote, i would expect your second quote to be talking about blacks, hispanics, muslims, etc. Not white people, men, and farmers? So maybe it really isn't 100% discrimination or being treated badly? Maybe it does have something to do with that mental health issue?
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-07-27 16:34:22  
If I really need to diagram this out, I was demonstrating how those types of statistics can be taken out of context. Certain groups have been shown to have higher rates than others and the hypothesized reasons are varying, which is that glimmer of a point in your post.
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-07-27 16:39:33  
Looks like congress is planing to spit in Trump's eye again.

Senators craft bill to prevent Robert Mueller from being fired
PBS

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee are working on legislation that could attempt to insulate Special Counsel Robert Mueller from being fired.

A Republican and two Democrats said Thursday they’re among committee members working on legislation that would prevent the firing of special counsels without judicial review. They are Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Democrats Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island and Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut.

A Graham spokesman says the senator’s still working on the bill, and it’s unclear when it will be introduced.

Graham has sternly warned Trump not to fire Mueller or Attorney General Jeff Sessions. He said Thursday there would be “holy hell” to pay if Trump fired Sessions.
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-07-27 16:39:53  
Or it has to do with various facets of life that end up triggering clinical depression.

Like men, especially white men, deciding they absolutely have to work themselves to death because it's the manly American thing to do. And then they stress themselves into depression and off themselves.

The rates for middle aged men in particular saw a rise with the 2008 economy issues. Younger people are more likely to take time off to enjoy themselves and partake in vice activities to destress which would help prevent depression.

If I chose to dig deeper, I suspect I would find racial minorities are more likely to take time off as well. And to actually spend that time off not working from home.

Farming involves extremely long days of backbreaking labor and a fair bit of isolation. And, anecdotally, a weird modern medicine phobia.
 Shiva.Shruiken
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By Shiva.Shruiken 2017-07-27 16:46:28  
Anthony Scaramucci Called Me to Unload About White House Leakers, Reince Priebus, and Steve Bannon
The New Yorker

Some of the best quotes:

The Mooch said:
"I'm not Steve Bannon, I'm not trying to suck my own ***."
The Mooch said:
"Reince is a *** paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac. 'Oh, Bill Shine is coming in. Let me leak the *** thing and see if I can ***-block these people the way I ***-blocked Scaramucci for six months.'"
The Mooch said:
"O.K., I'm going to fire every one of them, and then you haven't protected anybody, so the entire place will be fired over the next two weeks."
The Mooch said:
"They'll all be fired by me. I fired one guy the other day. I have three to four people I'll fire tomorrow. I'll get to the person who leaked that to you. Reince Priebus—if you want to leak something—he'll be asked to resign very shortly."
The Mooch said:
"What I want to do is I want to *** kill all the leakers and I want to get the President's agenda on track so we can succeed for the American people."
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-07-27 16:46:59  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Looks like congress is planing to spit in Trump's eye again.

Senators craft bill to prevent Robert Mueller from being fired
PBS

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee are working on legislation that could attempt to insulate Special Counsel Robert Mueller from being fired.

A Republican and two Democrats said Thursday they’re among committee members working on legislation that would prevent the firing of special counsels without judicial review. They are Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Democrats Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island and Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut.

A Graham spokesman says the senator’s still working on the bill, and it’s unclear when it will be introduced.

Graham has sternly warned Trump not to fire Mueller or Attorney General Jeff Sessions. He said Thursday there would be “holy hell” to pay if Trump fired Sessions.

Well, let me look at this and -

Garuda.Chanti said: »
Lindsey Graham

- I found your problem. Note that what Lindsey Graham thinks often has nothing to do with what other Republicans think.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-07-27 17:40:08  
- I found your problem....

You assume that the Republicans in congress think.
 
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-07-27 17:55:40  
Shiva.Shruiken said: »
Anthony Scaramucci Called Me to Unload About White House Leakers, Reince Priebus, and Steve Bannon
The New Yorker

Some of the best quotes:

The Mooch said:
"I'm not Steve Bannon, I'm not trying to suck my own ***."
The Mooch said:
"Reince is a *** paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac. 'Oh, Bill Shine is coming in. Let me leak the *** thing and see if I can ***-block these people the way I ***-blocked Scaramucci for six months.'"
The Mooch said:
"O.K., I'm going to fire every one of them, and then you haven't protected anybody, so the entire place will be fired over the next two weeks."
The Mooch said:
"They'll all be fired by me. I fired one guy the other day. I have three to four people I'll fire tomorrow. I'll get to the person who leaked that to you. Reince Priebus—if you want to leak something—he'll be asked to resign very shortly."
The Mooch said:
"What I want to do is I want to *** kill all the leakers and I want to get the President's agenda on track so we can succeed for the American people."


Mooch for president 2020.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-07-27 18:03:12  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
- I found your problem....

You assume that the Republicans in congress think.
Obviously they do. How many of them voted for Obamacare again?

How great is Obamacare running again?
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-07-27 18:11:58  
Candlejack said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
- I found your problem....

You assume that the Republicans in congress think.
Studies have proven that on average, the typical Republican has no brain, or if they do then their brains just don't function at all.

Coming from the most insane person in these forums, I think I'll take that as a compliment.
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 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-07-27 18:12:38  
Well enough that despite constant bitching by conservatives, they haven't managed to do a damn thing about it.

You know, despite having house and senate majority.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-07-27 18:21:44  
Sylph.Cherche said: »
Well enough that despite constant bitching by conservatives, they haven't managed to do a damn thing about it.

You know, despite having house and senate majority.

You won't see me defending the Republicans in Congress very often. That being said, I'm debating if I'd prefer a hive-mind of idiots (like the Congressional Democrats) or the hodgepodge of idealists, cowards, and RINOs like we currently have that at least pretend to think for themselves.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-07-27 18:28:09  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Sylph.Cherche said: »
Well enough that despite constant bitching by conservatives, they haven't managed to do a damn thing about it.

You know, despite having house and senate majority.

You won't see me defending the Republicans in Congress very often. That being said, I'm debating if I'd prefer a hive-mind of idiots (like the Congressional Democrats) or the hodgepodge of idealists, cowards, and RINOs like we currently have that at least pretend to think for themselves.
It really sucks that the Republicans have no real leader in Washington right now.

While the liberals/democrats don't need a leader, they just listen to what their donors tell them to do. Like good little lemmings they are.
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