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So what is up with the anti-pup movement?
 Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-11 06:14:10
Bismarck.Jonadriel said: »Bismarck.Jonadriel said: »Bismarck.Jonadriel said: »Bismarck.Jonadriel said: »Also anyway, people need to stop thinking that when one says "PUP doesn't really fit well with current content" that we're saying that "PUP is inherently a bad job."
It isn't, there just isn't any content that dictates "Hell, I wish I had brought a PUP today."
You can ask Austar or Minjo, I've been threatening to level PUP for over 24 hours. Why would I want to level it if I thought it were bad? Just to troll with ppl. U already have that reputation. He really has been wanting to level it. Good for him. I bet he will have lots of fun in it. Maybe as much as wanting to take it to VW too or actully get to understand it enough ( I said understand it, not just know how it works) as to allow or want to have a PUP in his shouts.
I've taken you on PUP over other people before, just because I know Kenkonken is ridiculously OP and you can do well versus standard VW WARs who aren't even eating food. You forgetting my puppet can heal as good as any WHM in th alliance doing cure VI and removing enfebles wile I focus on DD and procs. sadly it will heal only ppl in the party, not alliance.
But your RNG puppet was the only reason you won the parse. If I need cures, I'll invite a WHM or a SCH. RNG puppet is not always best for all VW mobs ince it's def sux.
And why just get another WHM or SCH when u can have both dmg and healing in the same member slot? This works awesome with high dmg aoe mobs.
Because your puppet can't cast BOOST-STR (and Boost-AGI on the CORs), Firestorm for melees + CORs, can't cast Regen V, Barspells, the list goes on...
WHM doesn't have any shared recast timers that conflict one spell over the other, can intelligently proc white magic enfeebles, etc.
No comparison really D:
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-11 06:14:47
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サーバ: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-11 06:16:04
Can't compare a puppet to a real healer in any respect really. Sorry, but what works for solo doesn't work in a party situation where there are far more things that even the improved puppet's AI can handle. As Sylow mentioned too, it can't cast a lot of integral spells.
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 Bismarck.Jonadriel
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 225
By Bismarck.Jonadriel 2012-05-11 06:16:59
SOmeetimes u don't need that much healing as to get another WHM or need that much dmg as to get a lvl95 ukon WAR. so, instead u can have a PUP, can heal and do DMG at same time u can cover a few more procs just in case they come up and u need the proc for those rare but posible situations.
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
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Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-11 06:17:40
no such thing as too much damage
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-11 06:17:42
Or the PUP can just do damage like they're supposed to and leave the healing and support to the appropriate jobs. You're lowering your DPS to do something that is utterly unnecessary while simultaneously lowering the effectiveness of the "healer" by a considerable amount.
[+]
Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-11 06:18:31
Or you can get 2 WHMs, or even a WHM and a SCH, and if you must bring a PUP, let it do what it's actually good for in the alliance.
Edit: beaten
Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2012-05-11 06:19:05
Bismarck.Jonadriel said: »Bismarck.Jonadriel said: »Bismarck.Jonadriel said: »Bismarck.Jonadriel said: »Also anyway, people need to stop thinking that when one says "PUP doesn't really fit well with current content" that we're saying that "PUP is inherently a bad job."
It isn't, there just isn't any content that dictates "Hell, I wish I had brought a PUP today."
You can ask Austar or Minjo, I've been threatening to level PUP for over 24 hours. Why would I want to level it if I thought it were bad? Just to troll with ppl. U already have that reputation. He really has been wanting to level it. Good for him. I bet he will have lots of fun in it. Maybe as much as wanting to take it to VW too or actully get to understand it enough ( I said understand it, not just know how it works) as to allow or want to have a PUP in his shouts.
I've taken you on PUP over other people before, just because I know Kenkonken is ridiculously OP and you can do well versus standard VW WARs who aren't even eating food. You forgetting my puppet can heal as good as any WHM in th alliance doing cure VI and removing enfebles wile I focus on DD and procs. sadly it will heal only ppl in the party, not alliance. Sorry, but having a cure timer of ~15 seconds isn't going to compete with a WHM healing. True, but sometimes WHMs don't heal that much and WHMs won't do dmg as same time as healing. Also WHM puppet have a faster response than a WHM since as soon as the dmg is taken, a second later is casting either the magic to remove the enfeble or the cure VI. And a good WHM would be casting cure/na as soon as the mob readied w/e TP move/spell so casting would still complete sooner than the auto
Bismarck.Jonadriel
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 225
By Bismarck.Jonadriel 2012-05-11 06:21:14
Ok guys no need to get so offensive/defensive lol. PUP won't be as good as a WHM, but my puppet have saved more times that i can count DDs that get from full to red in a matter of second and a cure VI fast from my puppet have saved them.
Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-11 06:23:16
I've done that on DNC too, Waltz V is instant.
DNC is better than WHM. We must bring a DNC, always or our melees will die.
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Bismarck.Jonadriel
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 225
By Bismarck.Jonadriel 2012-05-11 06:23:57
I've done that on DNC too, Waltz V is instant.
DNC is better than WHM. WHMs rage against DNC in 1...2....3...
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-11 06:24:08
I've done that on DNC too, Waltz V is instant.
DNC is better than WHM. We must bring a DNC, always or our melees will die. Don't forget that time I used Chakra.
[+]
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-11 06:24:38
To be honest, that doesn't make it your job to have your DPS lowered just for the chance at saving someone's life because they don't know how to use a potion or something.
How about Plenilune Embrace? Not only do I get to save people's lives, but it gives an attack boost too. :o
Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-11 06:26:21
Valefor.Prothescar said: »To be honest, that doesn't make it your job to have your DPS lowered just for the chance at saving someone's life because they don't know how to use a potion or something.
How about Plenilune Embrace? Not only do I get to save people's lives, but it gives an attack boost too. :o
If they're dumb enough to not be using stalwart's, should have let them die.
Bismarck.Jonadriel
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 225
By Bismarck.Jonadriel 2012-05-11 06:26:24
Valefor.Prothescar said: »To be honest, that doesn't make it your job to have your DPS lowered just for the chance at saving someone's life because they don't know how to use a potion or something.
lol back to square one......
The point is not to bring PUP to take the space of a DD or a healer, the point is that bringing a PUP to VW is not a bad thing and CAN bring good stuff to the table.
Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2012-05-11 06:27:06
lol I don't think anyone here is honestly trying to talk you out of playing pup, you're just putting up invalid arguments for playing a job you like. There should only be 1 argument you need to make, "I really enjoy pup, and I'm good enough at the job to be better than your average DD, and can cure in a pinch, so I'm not dead weight. (and I can add some extra procs just in case)
Bismarck.Jonadriel
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 225
By Bismarck.Jonadriel 2012-05-11 06:28:12
lol I don't think anyone here is honestly trying to talk you out of playing pup, you're just putting up invalid arguments for playing a job you like. There should only be 1 argument you need to make, "I really enjoy pup, and I'm good enough at the job to be better than your average DD, and can cure in a pinch, so I'm not dead weight. (and I can add some extra procs just in case) Just what i have said, only that i used examples lol
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-11 06:28:15
Yeah but it's an even better thing if you're just doing what you were invited to do: DD and proc. Especially with a Kenkonken, you should be focusing on your damage output, not how many heals your doll can toss out.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »To be honest, that doesn't make it your job to have your DPS lowered just for the chance at saving someone's life because they don't know how to use a potion or something.
How about Plenilune Embrace? Not only do I get to save people's lives, but it gives an attack boost too. :o
If they're dumb enough to not be using stalwart's, should have let them die.
FOR *** LAST TIME AM TALLING YOU! It got dispelled with my reraise!
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-11 06:28:51
Bismarck.Jonadriel said: »Valefor.Prothescar said: »To be honest, that doesn't make it your job to have your DPS lowered just for the chance at saving someone's life because they don't know how to use a potion or something.
lol back to square one......
The point is not to bring PUP to take the space of a DD or a healer, the point is that bringing a PUP to VW is not a bad thing and CAN bring good stuff to the table. Nobody is saying different except you. We all know what a good pup vs an average scrub can do, but if someone says "I have MNK or PUP" I'm gonna say go MNK because at least then they can proc staff and club so I don't have to.
Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-11 06:29:40
If I had to choose between a PUP known to me to be exceptionally geared and played by an exceptional player, and some unknown MNK, I'd probably take the PUP.
[+]
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-11 06:30:08
Seriously, I'm a BLU. I know what it is to be an underdog (teehee!), but you don't see me throwing random fruit at people to get accepted into parties. I go and carve Zs of Justice into ***, like a bauss.
[+]
Bismarck.Jonadriel
サーバ: Bismarck
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Posts: 225
By Bismarck.Jonadriel 2012-05-11 06:30:38
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Yeah but it's an even better thing if you're just doing what you were invited to do: DD and proc. Especially with a Kenkonken, you should be focusing on your damage output, not how many heals your doll can toss out.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »To be honest, that doesn't make it your job to have your DPS lowered just for the chance at saving someone's life because they don't know how to use a potion or something.
How about Plenilune Embrace? Not only do I get to save people's lives, but it gives an attack boost too. :o
If they're dumb enough to not be using stalwart's, should have let them die.
FOR *** LAST TIME AM TALLING YOU! It got dispelled with my reraise! That's the thing, I can do my DMG wile my pet heals, I don't even have to pay that much attantion to the pet, he do his thing and it know when to do it with the right maneuvors up. But don't just talk about me, i am talking in general about all PUPs, at least the decent ones. Consider them too, at least if have all the jobs u want/need and still have a free space, give it to the freaking PUP, u won't loose an eye for that.
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-11 06:31:02
If I had to choose between a PUP known to me to be exceptionally geared and played by an exceptional player, and some unknown MNK, I'd probably take the PUP. Just go PUP yourself, I go MNK, and it's win-win.
Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-11 06:31:23
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Seriously, I'm a BLU. I know what it is to be an underdog (teehee!), but you don't see me throwing random fruit at people to get accepted into parties. I go and carve Zs of Justice into ***, like a bauss.
Proth, I've been meaning to ask, are you a furry!
Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2012-05-11 06:31:52
Bismarck.Jonadriel said: »lol I don't think anyone here is honestly trying to talk you out of playing pup, you're just putting up invalid arguments for playing a job you like. There should only be 1 argument you need to make, "I really enjoy pup, and I'm good enough at the job to be better than your average DD, and can cure in a pinch, so I'm not dead weight. (and I can add some extra procs just in case) Just what i have said, only that i used examples lol yes but examples of things that other jobs can do will always lead to a comparison of the 2 jobs, and hybrid jobs will always lose in those cases. It's the sacrifice of being versatile.
"Jack of all trades, and master of none"
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-11 06:32:40
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Seriously, I'm a BLU. I know what it is to be an underdog (teehee!), but you don't see me throwing random fruit at people to get accepted into parties. I go and carve Zs of Justice into ***, like a bauss.
Proth, I've been meaning to ask, are you a furry!
No I'm a wolf, there's a difference
(I blame Nini tbh)
Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-11 06:34:40
She's like a furry oven.
Bismarck.Jonadriel
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 225
By Bismarck.Jonadriel 2012-05-11 06:35:18
Boooooo going off topic. I'm out. going to work.
サーバ: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-11 06:36:54
So is your animal an Oompah Loompah?
I saw a yell in jeuno about hahava {looking for members.}. So I shoot the guy a tell, "Can I go pup?". "No." "Come something that procs or don't come at all." he tells me. Da hell....? Ok I understand pup isn't the top tier DD. I happen to have a decently geared pup for pummel (I'm gonna eventually build veres but atm dynamis and farmig my relic for sam is taking most of my time). It's not like my damage is BAD. I've seen plenty of other DDs that would get wrecked in a parse by my pup. Also, last I checked, pup has every h2h but Asuran Fists, AND the puppet themselves contain about 12 or so unique procs... So where does this person's logic fall under? It has plenty of procs and it can DD. I know pup =/= mnk, but can all of these stuck up people get over themselves already? kthx
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