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[Dev] Dragoon Adjustments
By Ophannus 2012-01-26 15:47:00
Yeah but I think this formula for HBIII:
Quote: FLOOR(0.1757*(Drachen Brais Bonus + Wyvern XP Bonus + 1)*(Helm Bonus + Wyvern TP Bonus + Deep Breathing Bonus + 1)*(Wyv. HP + Wyv +HP gear)+42)
isn't the same for HBIV. 0.176 makes a nice clean 45/256 fraction. 0.239 is somewhere between 61/256 and 62/256 so I bet the modifier and constant are different for HBIV
Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2012-01-26 15:49:45
Yeah but I think this formula for HBIII:
Quote: FLOOR(0.1757*(Drachen Brais Bonus + Wyvern XP Bonus + 1)*(Helm Bonus + Wyvern TP Bonus + Deep Breathing Bonus + 1)*(Wyv. HP + Wyv +HP gear)+42)
isn't the same for HBIV. 0.176 makes a nice clean 45/256 fraction. 0.239 is somewhere between 61/256 and 62/256 so I bet the modifier and constant are different for HBIV
Ahh right, try doing a few different HBs then using only fixed HP+ gear (Body, Earring, Mantle), % gear and wyrm armet-esk gear confuse ***.
I really should activate me on the test server...
By Ophannus 2012-01-26 16:10:16
Too lazy to care. Takes 5min to activate yourself on test server and about 30min to download.
Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2012-01-26 16:12:13
But I'm like in the middle of voidwatch and stuff... I'll do it tomorrow maybe. I don't know if I care enough to be honest lol.
By Foldypaws 2012-01-26 20:56:53
That old formula is wrong anyway. Helm bonus is additive with the base value, not multiplicative.
Old formula was
FLOOR((Drachen Brais Bonus + Wyvern XP Bonus + 1)*(45/256(HB III) + 43/256(Helm Bonus) + 5/256(Belt Bonus) +5/256(Neck Bonus) + ??(Wyvern TP Bonus) + 75/256(Deep Breathing Bonus with 5/5 and +2 hat) )*(Wyv. HP + Wyv +HP gear)+42)
The formula for HB IV is
FLOOR((Drachen Brais Bonus + Wyvern XP Bonus + 1)*(53/256(HB IV) + 43/256(Helm Bonus) + 5/256(Belt Bonus) +5/256(Neck Bonus) + ??(Wyvern TP Bonus) + 75/256(Deep Breathing Bonus with 5/5 and +2 hat) )*(Wyv. HP + Wyv +HP gear)+60)
(Deep Breathing starts @ 50/256 and goes up by 5/merit with the hat.)
To pull out the changed parts, the constant changed from 42 to 60, and the base on the breath changed from a 45/256 multiplier on HP to a 53/256 multiplier.
Also, wyverns now have ~1475 HP@99. I'm pretty sure their job is DRG and so they gained more HP when DRG HP was increased.
[+]
Caitsith.Eriina
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By Caitsith.Eriina 2012-01-26 22:04:44
Quetzalcoatl.Brayenn said: »echo drops?
Antidotes? Holy waters? Remedies? Paralna from sub?
The point is not that there are other methods for removing the ailments that cure breath removes. The point is it makes sense for us to get remove silence. They aren't giving it to us. Their excuse for not giving it is BS. I'd like them to either add it or at least give us a reason that is consistent with the way cure breath currently works.
Lakshmi.Aanalaty
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2012-01-26 23:58:49
Quetzalcoatl.Brayenn said: »echo drops?
Antidotes? Holy waters? Remedies? Paralna from sub?
The point is not that there are other methods for removing the ailments that cure breath removes. The point is it makes sense for us to get remove silence. They aren't giving it to us. Their excuse for not giving it is BS. I'd like them to either add it or at least give us a reason that is consistent with the way cure breath currently works. Echos are also the cheapest of all of these, readily available from NPCs everywhere, and most people with any mage experience probably already cary them anyway.
Would it be handy to have it breath cure silence? Sure. Is it really worth splitting hairs over? Not in the slightest. It fixes the dangerous stuff.
Para: Hardest to get rid of and most annoying, but we get it 100% because you cant para a WS.
Cursna: Death waiting to happen. Rather obviously important.
Everythign else: Meds are expensive/rare or not worth carrying around. Free removal, nifty.
Silence is so low on the priority list of crap im worried about that i really just cant give a crap. Echos are cheap and everywhere. Is everyone really feeling so wronged that this even matters?
_____________________
PS: Cursna spell cast time reduced from 3sec to 1. There were not the threatening whm anymore /facepalm
[+]
Caitsith.Eriina
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By Caitsith.Eriina 2012-01-27 15:58:52
On ragnarok echoes cost 11k, holy waters cost 12k, antidotes cost 6k. Echoes are not noticeably cheaper nor are they more readily available. If you wanna know 1k off the price of echoes you can head to WG. Still fails to explain the "logic" as to why it wouldnt be included as compared to those things that are.
If drg's didn't care about this they wouldn't have specifically reported an excuse. It's a common point of discontent for people who care about drg and often play /Mage from both a gameplay and a lore stand point. Any drg/mage cares s lot about being silenced no matter how it's removed. If the best contribution you can make is "you don't care" maybe you should reconsider why you are posting. If you have insight to the logic behind remove silence (either for or against) that is consistent with the other remove anilities from either gameplay or lore stand point I'd be happy to hear them.
Seek not to explain why we "wouldn't" get remove silence. Seek to explain why we "shouldn't" get remove silence. Because they are in there toying with remove breaths right now.
Lakshmi.Aanalaty
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2012-01-27 18:01:19
On ragnarok echoes cost 11k, holy waters cost 12k, antidotes cost 6k. Echoes are not noticeably cheaper nor are they more readily available. If you wanna know 1k off the price of echoes you can head to WG. Still fails to explain the "logic" as to why it wouldnt be included as compared to those things that are.
Or you could head to port jeuno next to the friggin auction house shop. The thought that they are not widle available is simply inccorect.
Stack costs 9,600 from NPCs in:
Port Jeuno
Upper Jueno
Whitegate
Kazham
Mhuara
All 3 starter cities (in 1st/2nd place)
I have never bought echos off the AH in my life because the ONLY place where there is an AH but no NPC to buy them cheaper is Rabao and Norg, and those arent exactly frequented madly. If you buy them for 10k+ a stack, thats your own dumb fault. Lack of availability is (in this case) the players ignorance.
I say i dont 'care' because using a cheap, super available item from an NPC is simply more effective than requiring a WS to cure silence. If i get silenced as drg, you can etiher: hope you have TP before you need a cure, or just use an echo drop that is even faster. Echo>Spell>Heal is far more efficient than WS>Giant animation delay>spell>Heal. And that is assuming you are sitting on 100TP the moment you are silenced. Heaven forbid you are silenced after finishing off a mob at low HP and have to wait it out. But in that case you would probably just use the item ANYWAY.
My point is that relying on the WS is actually significantly less efficient way to deal with silence in the 1st place as compared to paralyze which it is often a boon. I honestly feel the same way about curse. If its not a significantly higher chance to remove doom than holy water, then there is no point because you could use 2-3 waters in the time it takes to do 1 WS, let alone gain TP for it with your deathclock ticking.
Fine ill play:
Reason not to have breath remove doom/Silence- It is slower/less effective than meds and will simply encourage drgs to not carry them making them ultimately less able to deal with these scenarios than currently.
However i do still support the cursna breath because it IS more convenient to use on the actual curse effect. If it was only doom id say let it go the way of silence too.
I dont think a developer needs to add additional (less effective) crutches to do something that is as easy as using echo drops that are littered all over vanadiel and quite affordable. Especially coming from a job whos only required consumable costs are food and the occasional angon.
TLDR: Its a waste of time for developers and a waste of energy of players to demand something less effective than what already exists.
[+]
Caitsith.Eriina
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By Caitsith.Eriina 2012-01-27 20:24:53
EDIT: while there are a few minor minor points where I differ in opinion, I'm just gonna sum up by saying by and large I agree with what you're saying. Everything you're saying about echo availability and developer resources is sound. Talking about those points any further will just degenerate in to hypothetical forum argument.
However, neither of those reasons are the ones the developers give for excluding remove silence. They say it's a front line back line thing. I'd be more satisfied if they gave a reason like affecting the market for echo drops (even though we buy them from vendors anyway, heh).
To my mind some front line jobs, including the drg with access to cure breath himself, are dependent on magic to be effective in the role for which they joined any given PT.
[+]
Lakshmi.Aanalaty
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2012-01-27 21:26:25
Fair enough.
Ive given up on developer logic as valid reasoning because its all hypocritical/inconsistent/ridiculous reasoning generally. PS2 limitations, BARANCE, "we cant add new zones because of PS2".....years later "PS2 is not limiting us from making more zones!" etc etc. Or my personal favorite:
Q: Could you split aura steal and steal timers.
A: (paraphrased) Yes, but we would have to reduce the effectiveness of aura steal to balance it because it would be OVERPOWERED (they actually used the word overpowered in the same sentence as aura steal) and probably have to make it inneffective on HNMs and we dont think youd like that"
Note: This was the same update that they added a drk spell that absorbs TWO buffs at once, not tied to a 5min timer, nor needing merits to unlock the dispel, and more to get the absorb to actually work.
So instead of raising hell about a tiny thing, id rather just let this one go and focus calling attention to something else.
Would i take a free silena? of course. Am i gonna fight SE to get it? Nope. Are developers reasons worth the paper i wipe my *** on? nope.
By Ophannus 2012-01-28 13:35:53
Difference between aura steal and absorb attribute is one bypasses all evasion/accuracy checks and is a straight% based on merits. The other relies on dark magic skill/immunities/resistences and magic accuracy/INT
Lakshmi.Aanalaty
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2012-01-28 20:22:16
Oh i get that their are limitations. It was just ironic that stealing ONE buff was overpowered but stealing 2 on a MUCH MUCH shorter timer is ok. Acutally, we can already steal a buff anyway, its not a new ability. The overpowered part was asking so SPLIT aura steal and steal.
Apparently aura steal is just peachy. Steal is just peachy. The ability to both steal and aura steal in the same 5 minutes is (i quote) Overpowered.
That is the ridiculous reasoning of SE. The root cause was people tired of using steal on a mage skelly and getting a bone chip when they wanted to dispel ice spikes and a tiny handful of mobs like that. But that would be overpowered and thf would shake the foundations of the game.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-02-03 07:09:26
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-02-13 20:07:23
Update on topic:
02-13-2012 07:12 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Greetings!
Apologies that this announcement is being made post-version update.
In regards to the effect that will reduce the enmity of the closest party member behind you, which was planned for this version update, we have received a lot of comments stating that it is not very convenient and we have decided to push this back. We would like to receive a bit more feedback from both dragoons as well as players who use other jobs.
Similar to the above, we would also like to hear the opinions of more players on the topic of priority for Cure Breath.
Originally, the status ailment that would be healed was selected based on the order of the level it was learned. As we are thinking of adjusting the priority of this, if there are any particular status effects which you would like to be prioritized for healing, please share your thoughts.
Paralyzed
Curse & Doom
Disease & Plague
Blind
Poison
Example of a post
----------------------------
1. Paralyzed
2. Disease & Plague
3. Curse & Doom
4. Blind
5. Poison
---------------------------- | |
Discuss what you think here but make sure you post in the official topic if you want to have a vote.
Lucky Dragoon gets the first update of the new year!
01-03-2012 02:27 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| As 2012 is the year of the dragon, it would be appropriate to disclose some information I have regarding dragoon adjustments.
*Currently these features are in-development and testing and are subject to change.
Wyvern Adjustments
- Addition of Healing Breath IV (Lv80~)
- Additional status ailment cures for Remove Breath depending on level
- Curse/Bane (Lv60~)
- Disease/Plague (Lv80~)
- Petrification (Lv99~)
Ability Adjustments
- Jump
- Reduce recast time from 90 seconds → 60 seconds
- High Jump
- Reduce recast time from 180 seconds → 120 seconds
- Increase the maximum range
- Reduce the enmity of the closest party member behind you
- Super Jump
- Increase the maximum range
- Reduce the enmity of the closest party member behind you
- Spirit Jump
- Reduce recast time from 90 seconds → 60 seconds
- Soul Jump
- Reduce recast time from 180 seconds → 120 seconds
Along with the reduced recast times for each ability, we will be simultaneously adjusting dragoon’s group 1 merit points for “Jump Recast” and “High Jump Recast.”
- Jump Recast 3 seconds → 2 seconds
- High Jump Recast 6 seconds → 4 seconds
Spirit Surge Adjustment
- Increase effect duration from 60 seconds → 90 seconds
As long as there are no major development/testing problems, we are planning to introduce these changes on the test server middle or late January. | |
01-11-2012 06:07 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Hey everyone
I bring some more news about dragoon adjustments. These are some responses to questions/requests that have been seen on the Japanese forum.
Quote: Are there any plans to adjust the haste category for Spirit Surge? Haste is split into two categories, magical and equipment. Spirit Surge currently falls into the magical category, but in order for this to be changed so it is treated neither as magical nor equipment, it’s necessary to edit the programming itself and this takes some time to do.
We weren’t able to inform you the other day at the same time as the other adjustments, but we’ve completed the work to make it possible to make Spirit Surge’s haste effect be in its own category similar to Hasso and we would like to implement this on the test server along with the Jump/Breath adjustments.
Due to this adjustment the number of attack rounds in a given time frame will increase, so we are planning to keep the effect duration of Spirit Surge at 60 seconds.
Quote: Curse/Bane (Lv60~)
Will this Cursna Breath have any effect on Doom? Similar to the effect of the white magic spell Cursna, it will have a chance to cure Death (though there is a chance it will miss).
Quote: High jump
If you are going to add stats to High Jump, you should remove the shared recast timer with Soul Jump. Soul Jump and Spirit Jump’s usage interval were set on the basis that they share recast timers.
Since we have reached the limit system wise for recast timers, it will not be possible to split any more. We have been exploring other possibilities, but a short term solution is rather difficult and we apologize that we haven’t finalized anything as of yet.
Quote: Remove Breath
What about the order of use for status cures? Will it be possible to use multiple times? Can we choose? In the case that you are inflicted with multiple status ailments, Remove Breath will cure only one of them. The status ailments cured will be selected based on level, but there is still room to look into priority, so please let us know your feedback. | |
01-13-2012 01:57 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| I’m sure you’re all wondering what this whole “recast timer limitations” thing is all about.
For a main job, the current maximum number of abilities with recast timers is 12. (Adding on a support job brings this up to a total of 24.)
Dragoon has pretty much reached the limit of the allocated 12 recast timers set for a main job.
In order to add jumps to dragoon, which already had a large amount of abilities, we based the stats on the fact that the recasts would be shared, since we had no choice but to create shared recast timers. Had we actually eliminated the recast timer limitation problem and created unique recast timers for Spirit Jump and Soul Jump, I believe that their recast timers would be longer.
Next, in regards to priority of status ailment cures from Remove Breath, the below order was suggested:
Paralyze>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Curse/Death > Disease/Plague>Petrify >>> Blind>Poison
If there are no problems with this the development team will be looking into this direction. Let us know if you prefer something different.
The development team is also looking into reducing the recast timer of Spirit Link as well as introducing items that will allow you to cure your Wyvern. | |
01-17-2012 04:11 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Greetings
Just wanted to give a bit more information in regards to recast timers and some other feedback we have been seeing.
Maximum recast timer slots
The maximum number of recast timers is currently set at 12 recast timers, but we do have plans to increase this number in the future. However, this adjustment requires quite a bit of time and we appreciate your understanding in the meantime while this is worked on.
Interchanging abilities
Next, in regards to the request to remove existing abilities and split recast timers.
It wouldn’t be impossible to remove abilities, but the following must take place in order to make it happen:
Reevaluate parameters and numerical values
If adjusting the numbers is not enough, reevaluate the effects themselves
If the abilities are still unsatisfactory, consider removing abilities
As such, removing an ability would be a last resort (removing abilities has that large of an impact).
Angon
In regards to Angon, the development team is looking into adjustments so that the lowered defense effect stacks with other defense lowering effects.
Call Wyvern Recast Timer
After discussing your feedback for a lower recast timer on Call Wyvern, the development team mentioned that they do not have plans to lower this any further and will be making adjustments to this via abilities and usable items. | |
01-20-2012 06:37 AM | Gildrein | Community Rep | |
| [dev1070] Job Adjustments: Dragoon
Ability adjustments
- Spirit Surge
- The "Haste" effect granted by Spirit Surge will be stackable with similar effects granted by spells and equipment.
- Jump
- Recast time shortened from 90 to 60 seconds.
- High Jump
- Recast time shortened from 180 to 120 seconds.
- Expanded range.
- Will also remove enmity from the nearest party member behind the dragoon.
- Super Jump
- Expanded range.
- Will also remove enmity from the nearest party member behind the dragoon.
- Spirit Jump
- Recast time shortened from 90 to 60 seconds.
- Soul Jump
- Recast time shortened from 180 to 120 seconds.
- Spirit Link
- Recast time shortened from 180 to 90 seconds.
To maintain balance in light of the above recast time reductions, dragoon group one merit point enhancements will be adjusted as follows:
- Jump Recast: Shortens recast time by 2 seconds (previously 3 seconds).
- High Jump Recast: Shortens recast time by 4 seconds (previously 6 seconds).
- Spirit Link Recast : Shortens recast time by 3 seconds (previously 6 seconds).
| |
01-20-2012 02:55 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Howdy!
Just wanted to pass along some insight into some of the changes that were made to the previously outlined dragoon adjustments.
Cure Breath Adjustments
We’ve decided to remove “Petrification (Lv 99)” from the list of possible status ailments that Cure Breath can remove.
At first, since there were comments asking to increase the status ailments that could be cured with Cure Breath, we were looking into improving the benefits to the party when white mage is your support job; however, at the same time we thought that there are almost no cases that you would not be petrified when the rest of your party was petrified.
After releasing the information and reflecting these changes on the test server, we received the same feedback on the forum and as a result made this decision.
We will be adjusting the priority order of the status ailments that Cure Breath cures at another time, so again, if you have request for this please let us know.
Dragoon Adjustments
With the shortened recasts on Jump/High Jump/Spirit Jump/Soul Jump, the damage was also increased. Also, with the addition of Heal Breath IV, there will be a good deal of healing power.
However, in the window to activate Heal Breath, you need to stop attacking (mainly auto-attack) and cannot deal damage. In other words, the more frequently you activate Heal Breath, the less damage you deal, so because of this we enhanced dragoons’s defenses. | |
01-25-2012 06:42 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Howdy!
I have some comments about dragoon adjustments in regards to some feedback we have received.
Wyverns
In response to the issue of feeling weaker when a wyvern is defeated, we will look into increasing the overall endurance of wyverns. There was also an idea to shorten the recast timer for “Call Wyvern” since wyverns are defeated relatively frequently, but we decided that it would be better if players tried to keep their wyverns alive as long as possible.
Thus, our main objective is to adjust wyverns so that they are not easily defeated in relation to their 20 minute recast time. This will involve adjustments to endurance, healing methods and other tweaks to keep wyverns alive.
- Healing methods
We have previously mentioned that we will shorten the recast time for Spirit Link, but we are also looking into some other adjustments. In order to further increase the survival rate of wyverns, we are looking into doubling the healing amount of Spirit Link and adding a regen effect. We have previously stated that we are considering recovery items for wyverns, but we will re-evaluate this idea after the adjustments to Spirit Link.
- Leveling wyverns
The spec for wyverns leveling up from repeating battles is valid in situations where there are many battles, but is not valid for NM battles and zones where EXP cannot be gained. This may be a modest adjustment, but we are looking into adding the effect “Wyvern levels up with a certain probability” to Empathy.
- AoE damage
Regarding the issue of wyverns not being able to approach monsters because they are instantly knocked out from AoE attacks, the same can be said for other pets and player characters. This issue is not resolved by simply adjusting characters and pets. Instead, it would be necessary to adjust the damage dealt by AoE attacks. We are currently looking into adjusting certain AoE attacks in Voidwatch.
- Breath weakness in Voidwatch
We acknowledge that it is difficult to proc weakness due to the fact that it is not possible to select which breath is used. However, we will not make a job adjustment to add abilities just so that it becomes easier to proc weakness. Rather, we look into adjustments to make content more enjoyable.
Also we are not looking into allowing players to select which breath is used. This would go against the concept of pets. Wyverns simply aid player characters in battle, so it should not be possible for players to freely control all aspects of wyverns.
- Cure Breath
Cure Breath only cures status ailments that affect the character’s ability to battle in the front-line, which is why we did not include silence or mute. It would be convenient if Cure Breath can cure a wider variety of status ailments as an AoE spell, but we decided on the current specs considering its balance with other jobs’ status ailment curing spells and waltzes.
Jump
Regarding Jump and High Jump, we decided to restrict the adjustments to increasing damage dealt, so we will only be shortening the recast timer for now. (We are scrapping the idea of allowing High Jump to lower hate for the party member closest to the player from behind.)
We want to avoid players only using Spirit Jump and Soul Jump because they have a wyvern. Rather, we would like players to choose between “Jump and High Jump” or “Soul Jump and Spirit Jump” based on the circumstances.
| |
02-03-2012 05:04 AM | Gildrein | Community Rep | |
| [dev1070] Job Adjustments: Dragoon
| |
02-13-2012 07:12 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Greetings!
Apologies that this announcement is being made post-version update.
In regards to the effect that will reduce the enmity of the closest party member behind you, which was planned for this version update, we have received a lot of comments stating that it is not very convenient and we have decided to push this back. We would like to receive a bit more feedback from both dragoons as well as players who use other jobs.
Similar to the above, we would also like to hear the opinions of more players on the topic of priority for Cure Breath.
Originally, the status ailment that would be healed was selected based on the order of the level it was learned. As we are thinking of adjusting the priority of this, if there are any particular status effects which you would like to be prioritized for healing, please share your thoughts.
Paralyzed
Curse & Doom
Disease & Plague
Blind
Poison
Example of a post
----------------------------
1. Paralyzed
2. Disease & Plague
3. Curse & Doom
4. Blind
5. Poison
---------------------------- | |
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