Erlking Kheten Or Perdu Voulge?

My erlking kheten got +6dmg +5str +7 attack Discuss

Am I wrong when I say the stat you wanna look for is double attack? but that does seem pretty good..5 str is hot.

As always,depend mostly on the situation and on the overall equip you've got...its a good kheten,that for sure...let's say that if you have capped acc. in whatever things you're doing use kheten,else use perdu...its simple... °_°

The only "sure thing" i can tell you is that everything is situational and you got to act accordingly judging what would be better by yourself..."perdu is always better" or "kheten is always better" are incredibly wrong statements...

if you're really badly equipped in overall then perdu "would" always beat kheten... (XD) ...but that should not be the case... (XD)

P.S. ah,i forgot to say that if you're in a situation where most likely you will be keeping tp while DoTing for SC or whatever kheten wins automatically...

This topic is a no-brainer, if your accuracy is capped, your Kheten > Perdu.

how i chceck capped accuracy on nm?

Got +6 DMG +5 Str +10 Stun (procs about 9.3% of time) In my experience and numerous parse logs I have found that with 8/8 G.Axe merits, and a decent acc tp setup in merit parties that EH > Perdu, now as far as higher eva mobs, with a haste setup instead of a Full blown Acc setup Perdu is obviously better. With this being said please remember that all gear in this game is 100% situational. Plainly put, it just depends on what you are doing.

Rune chopper, get refresh.


Other than that, Would depend on your acc imo, but between being a 2handed job and pizza+1, you should be capped in most situations, so I'd go w/ the kheten, but keep perdu handy for the rare occasions where your acc isn't capped.

Thanks for your info Vegetto, although we shouldn't take you seriously, since you don't have WAR at 75.

But thanks for your opinion.

My EK has dmg +5 Str +5 +9 Slow its better than my byakko's axe so i scraped it, havent got the rank for perdu, but i will continue doing runs till i get that perfect Kheten im lookin for one with stats of like DA+2 dmg +6 and Str +5 or att +8 or some high SE aug.

Martial Bhuj and Rune Chopper both good choices.

Shouldn't be using Martial really unless you spamming Steel Cyclone... plus that things is expensive, unless you have friends who are willing to spam that ENM.

Lets see 96 dmg and 10 attack 5 acc vs... 97 dmg 5str 7att. Yeah Assuming capped acc your Augment is very much the clear winner. For that matter chances are even if you aren't capped acc you can make up that 5 acc at a much lower loss than 1 to base dmg an 5 str.

That being said I'd keep that one for now and try another Kheten going for something similar but double attack instead of attack. Or get Martial. Rune chopper is pretty nice if you got at least 1 peice of mp gear or got mp merits and at least 1 auto refresh from gear or sanction etc in normal tp gear so like um ares's Cuirass for war I guess. I suppose you could get a rdm to refresh you but that is a pain

Refresh sanction is enough to keep rune chopper active. You don't actually need 3 mp to activate the effect, you only need 1. So long as you have sanction refresh and 1 piece of gear that gives mp (wally turban gives 30) then you can keep it active with just 1 mp/tick refresh.

The reason being is:
Latent effect
* Active while weapon is drawn and MP > 0.
* Drains 3 MP per tick.

The latent is active while you have more than 0 MP. With the 1 mp refresh from sanction, the game recognizes you as having 1 mp gained per tick BEFORE the 3 mp is removed from the hidden effect. This means the latent will activate, then your mp will be drained to 0. Same thing the next turn around, as the game will always factor you gaining 1 mp before it factors you losing 3 mp, so as far as the great axe is concerned, you ALWAYS have more than 0 MP.

In regards to the original poster, I'd recommend the EK over the perdu voulge for steel cyclone (obviously m bhuj is better, but we're talking about these 2 particular g. axes), but the perdu is probably better for raging rush/king's justice as they're multi hits and very acc reliant. I really doubt you'll be acc capped in haste tp gear in something like a merit pt, so stick with it for those.

actually that's not true, it was found out that rune weapons were only partially (I mean fluttering between active and in-active) active with 1~2 tic refresh in testing done quite a bit ago.

What you mean? And idk rune axes have always worked which is very easy to see

I meant when MP has run out and you're relying on 1~2 mp/tic refresh to activate the latent. it's the same for all rune weapons, but you won't normally recognize it changing between active and inactive.

this test info came from the time toau came out, because wars wanted to know if they could keep the weapon (rune chopper) active using only sanction refresh. I can't remember the details, but I think it was done using a weapon that gave + visible stat and the guy basically spammed his equip screen while fighting, it could have been with rune chopper while spamming ninjutsu too, I just don't remember the testing method... lol

gonna see if I can pull up the info on this (I don't normally rely on the really old testing to still be available, but usually you can find retests or updated pages).

I mean, I use to merit a ton when toau came out too, if sanction was all it took, R/C wars would be the standard. but, I never seen anyone using a rune chopper aside from once, and that guy was buddies with the rdm (yeah, getting refresh), lol.

Idk bst do DW rune axes for free 20regen all the time.

I think the best test would be to get a war with it sanction go out calculate how long it will take you to do say 20 attack rounds with and without that extra 9% haste. Then time how long it actually does. .

Even if you cycle a bit it might still be worthwhile. Even if it is only like 4%ish that would still be pretty cool

Also remember wars are also often epeen happen so alot would still probably want a higher dmg weapon anyways.

Only job I can test on is blm... guess I could try it in the past with sigil since there will be mobs there I can fight without havign to worry about getting killed with 0 mp

I've got a rune chopper, and i've used it quite a bit with both sanction refresh and RDM refresh. The difference is VERY noticeable, with 1mp per tick refresh, the latent is barely noticeable, while with 4mp per tick, it's incredible.

I'm pretty sure I've read the thread Abriel is referring to, it's on KI i believe, but i can't seem to locate it right now.

still looking for any rune testing, but extra info all runs along the lines of:

- is active while mp is greater than 0
- drains 3 mp tic
- does not need to consume 3 mp to activate

claims of tests show it to activate with 1~2 mp/tic refresh, but only while there is mp. meaning that it becomes deactivated as soon as mp hits 0. at 1~2 mp/tic (3 sec) that should be 33% of the time, no? it's still be pretty easily testable whether or not it's active full time (though it does seem logical that it would deactivate upon hitting 0 mp).

knowing that makes it somewhat easy to say that rune axe seems to be active full-time because regen/refresh rate per tic is the same.

any pages that were dedicated to testing seem to be gone now, but that's not too much of a problem I guess. all of the info looks like it's word of mouth now, which I hate ~.~

I guess the easiest way to test the total activated time using 1~2 mp/tic refresh, would be with something like smn/blm (lowest str rating for a job that can use chopper and have auto-refresh), drain mp using an avitar, then start wiffing at a VT goldfish in sea. you would want to parse this data over several hours to get a generally low margin of error, but you could easily calculate the activation through the total amount of swings swings over time v. estimated number of swings with or without the full haste value.

I'd rather just fight something that wont kill me lol. Like lvl 50ish mob.

Really though you shouldn't need much data. Unless there was some amount of randomness it should be exactly the same speed the whole time thru only really need to get enough hits that small errors in time measurement are gotten rid of. I mean I'm not gunna care if it gets calculated out to 3% haste but is actually 3.1%.

Speaking of which there is one for sale. I'll go buy it and test it once I get done doing some FOV.

there is a certain amount of randomness, mostly because for the haste to actually take effect, the latent would need to be active as you swing. with the delay changing on occasion, it's literally hit-or-miss, haha.

I guess a good 100~200 hits might give a close enough reading for a rough estimate. as for getting killed by a gold fish, you shouldn't even hit for 1 damage with a base of ~40 atk XD

It might do that lol. At which point it would really be dependent on how much haste you have so testing on a job that wouldn't use it might be meh. But I wouldn't call that random. It would be rotating thru like normal cept when it does that swing will be faster. Idk I'll do it in like a couple of hours. Shouldn't take to long I'll just get as much haste for my blm as I can and watch myself wiff alot.

haha, cool. I'm not sure if extra haste would scew the results, but it shouldn't considering the overall delay will still be pretty easy to work with.

edit: you can kick me in the shins if I'm wrong about the goldfish, but they should be safe, lol.

All right about to try first run.

I have 13% haste w/o gaxe so a hit should take me 7.2 for 1 hit while if I got 22% haste 6.6.

Think I will start with 20 hits lol. Still gunna take awhile

Never active should take 144sec. Always should take 132. I got 137 first time thru.

But watching I noticed weird things. It seems to take both tics at the same time but doesn't take any if you have 0.

Like I got 2 refresh thanks to blood of the vampire. So I would get to 2. Then go down to 1. Then down to 0. Then back to 2.

I eventually killed the mob and got a melon juice so gunna see if there was some error in haste calcs.

Edit: Nope 133.

that's kinda odd, I wonder if the moogle bonus is somehow different than normal auto-refresh, shouldn't be O_o

New test. Engage mob time from first hit starts till last hit starts. Parse number of hits subtract one to get amount of time. Do some easy math to get time per hit. Learn to make tables. Do this with full mp 2 refresh 1 refresh. Profit.

For this I am blm/smn or /whm using 13% non-RC haste.
RC has 504 delay so should be 1 hit every 8.4 sec with 0 haste.
Or 6.552 most likely rounded to 6.6 with 22%
Or 7.308 most likely 7.3 with only 13%


Inta da choppa testing

---

	Full mp	2 refresh	1 refresh
Time	264	241	327
hits	40	35	47
time/hit	6.6	6.885	6.95
Average Haste	21.4%	18.02%	17.17%
Haste from RC	8.4%	5.02%	4.17%

These numbers will be ever so slightly off cause I back calculated while the game forward does it and rounds. For example 22% haste would calculate to 6.552 sec and would mostly likely be rounded up to 6.6. While I can figure the full haste out obviously there will still be inconsistency in the partials because it is an average of sometimes on sometimes off so wouldn't be exact anyways. Probably test it with different amounts of starting haste next time to see if that has any effect.

Steel Cyclone is good. But a Bhuj is also handy for King's Justice.

Great Axe weapon skill

Skill level: N/A
Description: Delivers a threefold attack. Damage varies with TP. Conqueror: Aftermath effect varies with TP.

Modifiers: STR:50%
Damage Multipliers by TP:
100%TP 200%TP 300%TP
1.0 1.25 1.5

hmm, if it's active ~50% of the time, that could make it a bit more decent than thought to be with only 1~2 mp/tic refresh. I would have to check up on it, but it would really only be useful with 17% or less gear haste if it can out-preform perdu, because any more would reduce any gains (I'm not sure about that one, doesn't seem like it will surpass perdu at 50% activation just looking at it, but I guess what really matters is how much gear haste you have available).

I think the reason he said martial for Steel Cyclone is cause it helps it much more.

Steel cyclone has only 1 hit and from 100->200% it's ftp goes from 1.5->1.75 a 16.66% increase in dmg.

While KJ goes from 1.0->1.25 on the first hit and the other 2 stay at 1.0 so only a 8.33% increase in dmg.

Not to mention being multihit you main prefer more acc/att etc. Base dmg for ws is weapon dmg+ fstr+wsc

Let's say you WS KJ in enough str to exactly cap fstr on whatever you are fighting with Perdu. For greater lolibri that is 135. Seems reasonable.

Martial fstr cap is 17. Perdu 18. Martial dmg 88. Perdu 96.

Martial: 88+17+135*.5*.83= 161
Perdu: 96+18+135*.5*.83= 170

Giving Perdu about 5.6% more dmg just from higher fstr cap and weapon dmg. This difference would be less on Steel cyclone due to the higher base dmgs since it has an additional +50% vit mod on top of the str. Also that 7 attack is most likely gunna add 0-7%ish dmg depending what your Cratio is and depending depending on where between high and low pdif you happen to get on that particular hit.

I'd say if you have 2 refresh the odds are higher 2 reasons.

1. It clearly activates more with 2 refresh. From 55-60% to 46-50% with just 1 tick.

2. The odds of you having it 100% active are much higher. Remember it only sucks mp out when you have weapon drawn.

So with 1 refresh you are losing 2/tic drawn gaining 1/tic not drawn. So to break even you can only have your weapon drawn 66% of the time. Not good.

With 2 refresh you lose 1/tic while drawn and gain 2/tic while not drawn. Meaning if you are unengaged at least 33% of the time you are breaking even. More importantly you are storing more mp and depleting it slower so that even if it doesn't last the whole fight it will last a bigger portion of it.

Also this can help free up other great slots if you already have 17 gear haste. Get more double attack/acc str/dex etc.