What's Good About FFXI.

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What's good about FFXI.
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 Ragnarok.Ghishlain
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By Ragnarok.Ghishlain 2021-10-22 16:55:07  
Asura.Vyre said: »
Ragnarok.Ghishlain said: »
Asura.Vyre said: »
Ragnarok.Ghishlain said: »
I will admit, do miss the thrill of being able to solo content and seeing how far one can take a job.

*nudges FFXIV BLU towards you*

Pssst, you can solo normal mode Stormblood raids and even Lakshmi Extreme. Dungeons too!

Funny enough, I am not a fan of how BLU is designed in FFXIV xD

I understand what it was meant to be, something that breaks the holy trinity and let's the player kinda go nuts with the game on content that is no longer relevant and I respect the decision. But because, by developer design, BLU is meant to break the core foundation on how XIV is played, I don't find it appealing at all because it's the developers encouraging the player to break the core foundation of the game.

In contrast with XI soloing, you, as the player, are the one breaking a core foundation of the game by doing things that are intended to be handled by a group at least 6 people. And when I mean solo, I mean true solo and not using any Trusts to assist you. Those true solos are what brings the strengths of any job to the forefront while mitigating the weaknesses they may have as best as possible. Those were fun to optimize for on quite a few levels and it's fun to see how to take a job in a journey that it was never intended to take.

Ehh, the thing about that is, forever in FFXI's history there are jobs that just aren't good for solo.

Sure, you could try your best, and you could still solo something that someone claimed you'd never solo on say... Warrior. By playing in an atypical way. But the jobs that did the best solo were those that just had innate power that other jobs did not. Generally speaking, jobs with magic.

In that regard, FFXI solos never broke the mold of the game, because mages still have the most innate power due to spells(not to be confused with highest DPS). The only other way to increase said powers and range of abilities was via subjob alteration and acquisition of niche gear. Again, not breaking the mold of the game.

BLU in XIV is the same, but the contrast is a lot more obvious. I get why you don't like it, but it actually doesn't break the core foundation of the game completely. When you raid on it, you have to adjust how particular mechanics go, because they are set to interact with actual roles, never mimicked ones. Since BLU are all DPS, this means everyone in everyone fight has to know the mechs to a T for every role for role split fight mechs (Gavel) or the BLUs have to be good enough to kill the boss before those mechs happen. Sometimes they cannot.

It also gets skills that other jobs don't, with very cool effects that really push the limit of skill design. Some make people long for them to bring such things to other jobs. Things like Chelonian Gate to Tanks, but make it oGCD.

Soloing is even less intended in FFXIV, but this job can even solo an extreme that is at the same level as it. No other job has ever been able to do that, nor ever will be able to do that. And not just anyone picking up BLU in XIV can do that. It is the job with the most skill disparity. It has a very high ceiling for mastery.

Well, do consider my interest mildly piqued as I haven't heard such praise for BLU since it's inception - admittedly, I haven't been looking for a lot of info regarding BLU since it wasn't appealing at it's onset.

I don't think I have the time anymore though, sadly .-. lol

I do understand what you mean regarding not really breaking the mold but I feel we have differing opinions on how to define that very mold too so that's probably where our opinions will differ ultimately. But I definitely agree with the fact that XIV was never intended to be solo'd and thus I never really attempted to make those efforts either. This is in contrast to XI where the barriers of entry into cotent was quite flexible and thus one could potentially solo the content if they desired which left me wanting to push a job to its limits in that style.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-10-22 17:07:02  
RadialArcana said: »
Original Mithra sit animation.
Even that. A lot of people complained that it was "too inviting", but I always thought it was more like manspreading, which sort of fits with the tomboy personality. It was identical (though mirrored) to the male Elvaan sit animation, and Hume and Galka are no better.
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By RadialArcana 2021-10-22 17:11:14  
Yeah it fit their personality, I think they probably made the correct choice to change it though lol
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By RadialArcana 2021-10-22 17:13:40  
The rdm/nin craze back in the day was some fun too, I loved that. I appreciated that the developers didn't nerf it either. Even though it annoyed a lot of people.

I remember being addicted to watching Avesta videos.

The developers always seemed to allow players to get away with stuff, the nin tanking think is another example.

Also /nin was abused way above what they intended too.

This got me obsessed with getting a Dalmatica.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-10-22 17:14:24  
RadialArcana said: »
Yeah it fit their personality, I think they probably made the correct choice to change it though lol
Yeah, it's for the best.
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By alzeerffxi 2021-10-23 01:12:33  
RadialArcana said: »
The rdm/nin craze back in the day was some fun too, I loved that. I appreciated that the developers didn't nerf it either. Even though it annoyed a lot of people.

I remember being addicted to watching Avesta videos.

The developers always seemed to allow players to get away with stuff, the nin tanking think is another example.

Also /nin was abused way above what they intended too.

This got me obsessed with getting a Dalmatica.

There is a same situation in everquest some pet/ Utility mage class would be able to solo a raid boss in a place literally Called sky, too or it couldiv been a necromancer i don't remamber i think it was called plane of sky, there was a big quest chain too similar to ROTZ,
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=70

FFXI sky is built the same way too with different islands, its insane how much FFXI was influenced by everquest, literally everything outside of mission storylines, and sub job + tp/Skillchains
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By Alicenchains 2021-10-23 02:47:48  
What's good about FFXI? Finally cancelling your sub and reclaiming your life!
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 Shiva.Phioness
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By Shiva.Phioness 2021-10-23 05:03:50  
I came back to the game after 6 year exodus, went from one lvl 90 character to dual boxing 2 characters and making 12 REMA in 2 years. I picked up ffxiv and played both for a year before getting MMO burnout. I love RPGS/MMORPGS, but sometimes without the party/discord/teamspeak moments the game feels empty. When your looking for a BiS item and it comes few and far between, the games feel empty.

It's all about BiS ladder, but how many times can you climb the REMA tree? Watching bot like characters with autogearswap cheats like HIEP is disgusting, your defense sets automated by a program, and looking like a BOTTED version of Avesta ( a fkn legend ) makes me miss 75 cap days of true skill.
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By RadialArcana 2021-10-23 06:45:18  
Shiva.Phioness said: »
I came back to the game after 6 year exodus, went from one lvl 90 character to dual boxing 2 characters and making 12 REMA in 2 years. I picked up ffxiv and played both for a year before getting MMO burnout.

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By SimonSes 2021-10-23 06:50:31  
I don't get it. If you want to talk and play with people, why not make a static and do it? I play in Odyssey static, we have 90 min events 5 days a week and we talk about everything. What in current game stops you from social interaction like this?

Same for Gearswap and advanced Luas. Who force you to use them? You can play on your own terms, in a way satisfying for you.

You act like automaton forced to do things, when in reality you are Puppetmaster :)
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By RadialArcana 2021-10-23 10:09:57  
Shiva.Phioness said: »
I came back to the game after 6 year exodus, went from one lvl 90 character to dual boxing 2 characters and making 12 REMA in 2 years. I picked up ffxiv and played both for a year before getting MMO burnout. I love RPGS/MMORPGS, but sometimes without the party/discord/teamspeak moments the game feels empty. When your looking for a BiS item and it comes few and far between, the games feel empty.

The problem here is you. Old FFXI controlled hardcore grinders with time gated content and low drop rates, modern FFXI removed these things.

You made the game into this by devoting 10+ hours a day into this and grinding one out after the other, no game is going to be able to satisfy you like that and you're going to boil it down into just chasing one BiS after another. Other games have far less BiS too (I know cause I used to be like you and burned through one game after another)

You have to learn to calm down and do other stuff while logged in, it took me 6 months to cap job points when I returned to the game. I would group up with whoever was there, I would talk to people on my LS, go help people with stuff I saw people shouting for. I still worked on my gear but I didn't mindlessly devote all my playtime to it, cause I knew I would do what you did if I did.

I mean if you like grinding out all the REMA then go for it, but to do it and then complain when you chose to do that is silly.
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 Asura.Aeonova
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By Asura.Aeonova 2021-10-23 21:24:21  
People can't spam their Twitch URLs in yell like so many other games. (or any URLs actually as it will get you GM'd).
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By alzeerffxi 2021-10-24 10:45:57  
YouTube Video Placeholder


So yea lots of people in 14 Because of the wow drama now
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By RadialArcana 2021-10-24 12:46:25  
A minority of 14 players are in a war with every other mmo, and streamers and youtubers are promoting them being that way for cash.

Most mmo players just want enough players to be profitable and safe, a minority of 14 players want to be no.1
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By Draylo 2021-10-24 18:52:57  
It's funny that the xiv main guy, Yoshida, did an interview with that WoW player. He asked what are some influences he takes from in other MMO's for XIV. He didn't reference XI, its like their black sheep now or something. All that glory of taking the WoW players (the worst of the worst lmao) and no mention of the MMO they had to step on to get to their popularity. All the funds siphoned to save that sinking boat, oh well.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-10-24 22:06:09  
I like the Promyvion zones, especially back in the level cap days. They're really creative and unnerving - especially with the fantastic music associated with them. Everything being true sight made it feel like a real dungeon crawl.
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By Mattelot 2021-10-25 05:44:08  
Draylo said: »
Isn't it sad to anyone that you see more doom and gloom and negativity over anything positive for this game?

To give constructive criticism, you have to be honest. There are great things about this game and some that are only great to those who grew up with it but would be a huge turn-off to newcomers or most new-age gamers. You have to take the truthful negative stuff along with the positive or else you just sound like a fanboy. The game has faults but that doesn't mean real veterans cannot look past them.

FFXI has plenty of good things and I'm not going to list a page full wall explaining them, plus we've all heard it before. It's just not an instant gratification game that most want now-a-days. That topped with the amount of people who cheat doesn't exactly make it sound appealing in the grand scheme. Regardless, it was very memorable. Even vanilla WoW with its closer-knit community didn't compare in the day. It's like comparing the glory days when you and your friends played together outside to today where everyone young has phones glued to their faces. We can remember it for what it was.
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By RadialArcana 2021-10-25 06:35:21  
Draylo said: »
It's funny that the xiv main guy, Yoshida, did an interview with that WoW player. He asked what are some influences he takes from in other MMO's for XIV.

FF14 is WOW bred with Fortnite, by this I mean near everything from ARR is copied from WoW and implemented more casually and then they take the utter disrespect for their world and put pretty much anything in the game to turn it into a fan-service circus. He has been on record as saying he has asked Blizzard to let them do a wow crossover but they refused, and they refused becasue they keep their world lore friendly.

The kind of people who play FF14 don't care about lore or "how does PSO2/MH/Nier Automata/Tele Tubbies/Ronald Mconald/DragonBall Z fit into the world" They just love fan service from anything. Because of this, the cash shop is beloved because it allows them to wear stupid modern day garbage in their fantasy world.

Modern FF14 is made for a modern social media bred player, with low attention spans and a desire to show off real world wealth in a video game. I don't want FF11 to turn into FF14, it's a legacy product that is kept pure from that disgusting modern developer mindset.

You can say it's not desirable to modern players, that's a good thing because it shows they are still determined to appeal to the core audience that love it. WoW has alienated its audience by doing that.
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By Mattelot 2021-10-25 06:47:11  
RadialArcana said: »
Modern FF14 is made for a modern social media bred player, with low attention spans and a desire to show off real world wealth in a video game.

This and they also want instant gratification. They do not want to "work" for anything. Or if there is any work, it's trivial. When I hear people gloating about getting a relic in FF14, I get tempted to share my journey to some of my FF11 weapons but that's not very classy.

RadialArcana said: »
WoW has alienated it's audience by doing that.

WoW doesn't know what it wants to be anymore. It started off as a game that casual or hardcore players could find something in but now, it's so hard to sell someone on either aspect.
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By alzeerffxi 2021-10-25 06:51:42  
Mattelot said: »
RadialArcana said: »
Modern FF14 is made for a modern social media bred player, with low attention spans and a desire to show off real world wealth in a video game.

This and they also want instant gratification. They do not want to "work" for anything. Or if there is any work, it's trivial. When I hear people gloating about getting a relic in FF14, I get tempted to share my journey to some of my FF11 weapons but that's not very classy.

RadialArcana said: »
WoW has alienated it's audience by doing that.

WoW doesn't know what it wants to be anymore. It started off as a game that casual or hardcore players could find something in but now, it's so hard to sell someone on either aspect.

FFXIV heavensward/ relics are actually more time consuming than Xi's relics, hell you can buy an aeonic run and afk like 90% of the people, and it only costs 25m which is a joke to get now a days
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By alzeerffxi 2021-10-25 06:52:40  
Draylo said: »
It's funny that the xiv main guy, Yoshida, did an interview with that WoW player. He asked what are some influences he takes from in other MMO's for XIV. He didn't reference XI, its like their black sheep now or something. All that glory of taking the WoW players (the worst of the worst lmao) and no mention of the MMO they had to step on to get to their popularity. All the funds siphoned to save that sinking boat, oh well.

FFXI was literally more copy pasta of everquest than FFXIV is to wow please, you realize we call ruauan gardens sky to reference planes of sky from everquest? you relaize the EXP party camps actually comes from ever quest, and the merits too as a form of AA? Please stop. He can not talk much about FFXI no one is investing in it aside from our monthly sub and cases lol i *** wish like someone as yoshi p could run this game.
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By SimonSes 2021-10-25 06:58:28  
alzeerffxi said: »
Draylo said: »
It's funny that the xiv main guy, Yoshida, did an interview with that WoW player. He asked what are some influences he takes from in other MMO's for XIV. He didn't reference XI, its like their black sheep now or something. All that glory of taking the WoW players (the worst of the worst lmao) and no mention of the MMO they had to step on to get to their popularity. All the funds siphoned to save that sinking boat, oh well.

FFXI was literally more copy pasta of everquest than FFXIV is to wow please, you realize we call ruauan gardens sky to reference planes of sky from everquest? you relaize the EXP party camps actually comes from ever quest, and the merits too as a form of AA? Please stop. He can not talk much about FFXI no one is investing in it.

Stop what? He didn't say that taking inspirations from other games are bad. He said that in his opinion taking inspiration from modern projects like Fortnite, that doesn't give a ***about lore are bad. Sometimes I feel like you have problem understanding what people wrote.
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By Mattelot 2021-10-25 07:03:26  
alzeerffxi said: »
FFXIV heavensward/ relics are actually more time consuming than Xi's relics, hell you can buy an aeonic run and afk like 90% of the people, and it only costs 25m which is a joke to get now a days

I've done relics in every 14 expansion and they were all easy. I'm not going to compare XI relics because they're basically just bought. Aeonics, it really depends. Not everyone has the money to buy a run, so earning them can be harder. Especially the fact that you will not get them solo. Compare to something like mythics or empyreans, if you wish.
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By alzeerffxi 2021-10-25 07:07:46  
Mattelot said: »
alzeerffxi said: »
FFXIV heavensward/ relics are actually more time consuming than Xi's relics, hell you can buy an aeonic run and afk like 90% of the people, and it only costs 25m which is a joke to get now a days

I've done relics in every 14 expansion and they were all easy. I'm not going to compare XI relics because they're basically just bought. Aeonics, it really depends. Not everyone has the money to buy a run, so earning them can be harder. Especially the fact that you will not get them solo. Compare to something like mythics or empyreans, if you wish.

That's why i didn't list empys and mythics, they are still easy to do its just time consuming, but comparing relics to 75 era is totally different specially mythics, although FFXIV is not designed to be like FFXI ultimate weapon farming etc, even xi wasn't like that until abyssea
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By RadialArcana 2021-10-25 07:09:59  
Few people have a problem with a company copying stuff. Deep Space 9 copied near everything from Babylon 5 when the writer of that show submitted his script to them, I like Deep space 9.

The issue is, most of us don't like WoW and so copying from that is bad to us.

The genius of WoW is that it's a game built on constantly destroying its own gear and replacing it all with new gear, so it's a never ending assembly line. You finish one thing and then throw it away to start a new set with the next major patch. You are constantly treading water.

The issue with this for companies duplicating it is that no other game can do it well, since they don't have the same amount of money blizzard does. So it ends up being like a natural bodybuilder trying to copy the routines of one that takes steroids and ends up looking like peewee herman.
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By Mattelot 2021-10-25 07:11:51  
alzeerffxi said: »
That's why i didn't list empys and mythics, they are still easy to do its just time consuming, but comparing relics to 75 era is totally different specially mythics, although FFXIV is not designed to be like FFXI ultimate weapon farming etc, even xi wasn't like that until abyssea

I really don't know what SE was thinking when they designed relics and mythics back in the 75 era. It just wasn't feasible even for many hardcore players. I knew 3 people who had relics and 2 of the 3 bought gil to make it. I honestly cannot imagine how much they spent.

I get it, "ultimate weapons" are not something everyone and their brother should run around with but that was just very poor design/implementation.
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By alzeerffxi 2021-10-25 07:18:11  
RadialArcana said: »
Few people have a problem with a company copying stuff. Deep Space 9 copied near everything from Babylon 5 when the writer of that show submitted his script to them, I like Deep space 9.

The issue is, most of us don't like WoW and so copying from that is bad to us.

The genius of WoW is that it's a game built on constantly destroying its own gear and replacing it all with new gear, so it's a never ending assembly line. You finish one thing and then throw it away to start a new set with the next major patch. You are constantly treading water.

The issue with this for companies duplicating it is that no other game can do it well, since they don't have the same amount of money blizzard does. So it ends up being like a natural bodybuilder trying to copy the routines of one that takes steroids and ends up looking like peewee herman.

The philosophy of classic was actually good, you could get for example shaman tier 2/8 to get the chain heal bonus, and than wear tier 2 bonus + t3 for example, the combat of Classic Wow, still feels fluid as ever. but the problem is just what you said, but that doesn't happen until Late Burning cursade/Early WOTLK with gear patch Treadmill. there are pieces in classic Wow that are literally BIS and comes from the first raid like Molten core for example they give you a reason to go back to old raids or Hand of ragnaros for example the legendary mace or the BIS legendary tank weapon thudnerfury, or the mele dps hands, it was not shallow until ION (was a player) joined the company and he is currently the wow lead Since WOTLK.
 Asura.Vyre
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By Asura.Vyre 2021-10-25 08:31:07  
Mattelot said: »
alzeerffxi said: »
That's why i didn't list empys and mythics, they are still easy to do its just time consuming, but comparing relics to 75 era is totally different specially mythics, although FFXIV is not designed to be like FFXI ultimate weapon farming etc, even xi wasn't like that until abyssea

I really don't know what SE was thinking when they designed relics and mythics back in the 75 era. It just wasn't feasible even for many hardcore players. I knew 3 people who had relics and 2 of the 3 bought gil to make it. I honestly cannot imagine how much they spent.

I get it, "ultimate weapons" are not something everyone and their brother should run around with but that was just very poor design/implementation.

IIRC, the idea behind original Relics/Mythics was that each Linkshell/group would have someone sort of like a designated VIP/MVP/Champion sort of person. Good at the game, lots of respect, good with people, leader type etc. Basically, a person other people would want to pedestal and make great because they are great...

At least I thought I read something like that once. Of course, back in reality it actually was who could successfully exploit the most people/get away with buying the most gil etc. Who had the patience to steadily chip away just buying the currency from all those just selling it etc.

I still quite fondly remember old Dynamis. Getting zonejacked once every other month at our time slot. Leader eventually saying he wants someone else to sponsor the hourglass, with several people waiting in the wings, but then deciding, "Nah, I'm already half way to my next one. Might as well not let someone else sponsor."

Did always like hearing about the end line loan though. Trade in those big fat 100s, so you could turn around and gift back the ones you got at completion. That was the one good thing.

That, and Dynamis was at least atmospheric and cool the first few times through any zone. Dangerous, an actual raiding atmosphere. Despite the heavy flaws in the system, I never missed a run that I didn't have to miss. I thought the bosses were cool too. Particularly the Beaucidine Glacier Ahriman, where like, a Puller that didn't need the clear or whatever would flee pull the dragons away, while everyone else took the eye. Kill the eye before the thief is caught or has to warp or whatever, cause those dragons were gonna come back to spawn eventually lol.

The weapons actually talking to you and ***talking you as they warped out too lol. Oh man. If there's one thing that FFXI has in spades over XIV it's the flavor on bosses. Like, sure, there's no voice acting from the bosses, but the XI bosses are highly unique.

Also, of all the things they didn't reuse from XI, they didn't resuse Odin, and I really rather don't like how Odin in XIV looks by comparison.
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By Mattelot 2021-10-25 08:39:25  
Asura.Vyre said: »
IIRC, the idea behind original Relics/Mythics was that each Linkshell/group would have someone sort of like a designated VIP/MVP/Champion sort of person. Good at the game, lots of respect, good with people, leader type etc. Basically, a person other people would want to pedestal and make great because they are great...

You very well may be right! I've not heard that myself but it sounds like a logical intention. I know my examples are only anecdotes but the 2 people I know who bought gil to get a relic did not fit any of that criteria, unfortunately.

Asura.Vyre said: »
Also, of all the things they didn't reuse from XI, they didn't resuse Odin, and I really rather don't like how Odin in XIV looks by comparison.

Oh but how they implemented Odin in FFXIV was hilarious. So many noobs seeing him spawn and thinking "I got this..." only to charge in and learn otherwise.
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