Final Fantasy XI: Top Five Jobs (Ruaumoko )

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Final Fantasy XI: Top Five Jobs (Ruaumoko )
 Bahamut.Spookyfish
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By Bahamut.Spookyfish 2021-10-13 09:53:26  
Chaplin said: »
So… you wanted to get a discussion going that you were not going to participate in?

Makes sense

Are you just being difficult for the hell of it? The discussion under his video on youtube would be the discussion he was looking to engage in. This thread was posted by a completely different person, much like the one on reddit. Radial is the one looking for discussion here as it's his thread. Find something productive to do lol
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By SimonSes 2021-10-13 10:08:38  
Bahamut.Spookyfish said: »
The discussion under his video on youtube would be the discussion he was looking to engage in.

You realize he was talking exactly about that discussion under video on YouTube right (Rua responded to one comment there)? Im not taking sides here, but your post is silly in this context.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2021-10-13 10:17:18  
"this thread" every thread like it and every post in them is silly and pointless in the first place.

It's always boredom bait. Just pointless dipshittery.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-10-13 11:01:20  
Ruaumoko said: »
Looking through this page and... it's remarkable what missing out a word in a title can do.
I wouldn't even say you're missing a word. When I first saw the video title, I immediately figured it was a subjective list, or in some way "best concepts/designs". There can't be an objective job tier list because it's always changing, and varies so much between events.

People are just looking for reasons to be mad.
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By mhomho 2021-10-13 11:07:08  
I just wanted to start a discussion~
I didn't make a click-bait title~
I never claimed they were the /best/~
It's not like I make job guides detailing the intricacies of them or participate in the current endgame thereby setting an expectation that a top 5 would be a discussion of the job meta~
It's just for fun~
It's just a game~
You don't pay my sub~
I don't make /editorials/ like some type of news reporter~
Opinion pieces are part of the news~
It's totally not bait, what do you think this is? The New York Post?~
It's not like supports are still in high demand because of how strong and pivotal they are to a party's composition.~





ok ron
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By Spookyfish89 2021-10-13 11:14:02  
SimonSes said: »
You realize he was talking exactly about that discussion under video on YouTube right (Rua responded to one comment there)? Im not taking sides here, but your post is silly in this context.

I didn't, because we're not in the comment section of his youtube video. Rua replied to one comment here and that's how it looked. Regardless, who the *** cares? Does he need to reply to every "I like this job for this reason!" post on his video? Guys still being difficult for no reason.
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By SimonSes 2021-10-13 12:25:29  
Spookyfish89 said: »
SimonSes said: »
You realize he was talking exactly about that discussion under video on YouTube right (Rua responded to one comment there)? Im not taking sides here, but your post is silly in this context.

I didn't, because we're not in the comment section of his youtube video. Rua replied to one comment here and that's how it looked. Regardless, who the *** cares? Does he need to reply to every "I like this job for this reason!" post on his video? Guys still being difficult for no reason.

Maybe he has a reason, just not visible in this discussion, like some personal one or just from the past videos :)
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 Ragnarok.Primex
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By Ragnarok.Primex 2021-10-13 12:43:59  
I think pretty much all jobs are fun depending on what kind of mood you're in. There's always a place for picking up your GA or GS and just smashing ***. There's great satisfaction in countering and kicking ***in the face. Soloing big skillchains for crazy dmg. Pewpewing things like a gangster, or feeling invincible and super tanking.
They're all fun in their own right. Having said that, and at least to me, (dont crucify me for this) but DNC, THF and NIN don't really differ that much. they just excel in one aspect, common to all 3. And more often than not you can kinda experience it all by combining them as main/sub, and not really miss out on some unique experience in the game.
That's my problem with the list. DNC and NIN both made it. a ranged, tank, heavy-dd or hybrid DD didn't. And the pet job chosen was the most melee'isque. So it just feels like a bit too much chocolate, with a lot of chocolate fudge, and brownies and oreos.

I want some strawberry, vanilla, caramel and coffee in my ice cream, with banana almonds and whipped cream.
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By Chaplin 2021-10-13 13:07:26  
Bahamut.Spookyfish said: »
Chaplin said: »
So… you wanted to get a discussion going that you were not going to participate in?

Makes sense

Are you just being difficult for the hell of it? The discussion under his video on youtube would be the discussion he was looking to engage in. This thread was posted by a completely different person, much like the one on reddit. Radial is the one looking for discussion here as it's his thread. Find something productive to do lol

Hardly. It just seemed an odd way to word it. I just didn’t see the point in creating a discussion in your comments that you weren’t going to participate in. To each is their own I guess.

Also, we’re all on a message forum. None of us are being productive at the moment.
 Asura.Iamaman
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By Asura.Iamaman 2021-10-13 13:09:04  
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By Spookyfish89 2021-10-13 13:18:24  
SimonSes said: »
Maybe he has a reason, just not visible in this discussion, like some personal one or just from the past videos :)

Probably doesn't like Dancer. Can't have that kind of negativity around here!

Chaplin said: »
Also, we’re all on a message forum. None of us are being productive at the moment.

I'm doing work between posts, I swear...
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-10-13 13:24:19  
Ragnarok.Primex said: »
Having said that, and at least to me, (dont crucify me for this) but DNC, THF and NIN don't really differ that much.

The only possible thing the three jobs have in common is the native DW (unless you consider the possibility of evasion/shadow tanking a similarity), which is not really that much of a similarity at all. DNC is light-years more engaging and busier than THF, and offers tons more utility. NIN is nothing like either of the two, and has special talents (hybrid, nuking) that the others can't accomplish at all. The three jobs really are nothing alike. DNC and THF are the closest together, and even those have some pretty big differences.

Ragnarok.Primex said: »
And more often than not you can kinda experience it all by combining them as main/sub, and not really miss out on some unique experience in the game.

What? You think subbing Ninja or Dancer gives you anywhere close to the experience of the job? /dnc or /nin is pitiful in comparison. What does /thf offer in this stage of the game? I don't agree with this at all.

Ragnarok.Primex said: »
That's my problem with the list. DNC and NIN both made it. a ranged, tank, heavy-dd or hybrid DD didn't.

What exactly would you consider a "Hybrid DD"? Is NIN and DNC not a "Hybrid DD"? He included RDM on the list as well, which can put out respectable damage in magical and physical forms. RDM can also tank, heal, enfeebled, and support. I am not sure I understand what you are saying as Hybrid DD. Give an example. Because I would absolutely classify NIN and DNC as hybrid DDs.
 Asura.Arico
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By Asura.Arico 2021-10-13 13:24:48  
Chaplin said: »
You replied to a whole 1 comment. Not a very deep discussion.

He said he wanted a discussion, not he wanted to have a discussion.
 Bahamut.Balduran
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By Bahamut.Balduran 2021-10-13 13:37:43  
Ragnarok.Lowen said: »
The only bait here is the idiotic thread title.

The first impression doesn't really seem like bait to me, thread title followed by the video is clear as water and makes perfect sense. The only way you can fabricate this thread as bait is by purposely drawing attention to the missing word, because you're either a) a troll b) lack common sense.
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By Chaplin 2021-10-13 13:40:58  
Asura.Arico said: »
Chaplin said: »
You replied to a whole 1 comment. Not a very deep discussion.

He said he wanted a discussion, not he wanted to have a discussion.

Tonight when my wife hands me my plate, I’m going to say “I wanted dinner. I didn’t say I wanted to have dinner”. Stand by
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By Crossbones 2021-10-13 13:44:59  
Rua is like the nicest dude on here. If you're a *** to him chances are you didn't get your *** beat enough as a kid.
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 Bahamut.Negan
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By Bahamut.Negan 2021-10-13 13:51:37  
Crossbones said: »
you didn't get your *** beat enough as a kid.
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 Asura.Arico
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By Asura.Arico 2021-10-13 13:52:33  
Chaplin said: »
Tonight when my wife hands me my plate, I’m going to say “I wanted dinner. I didn’t say I wanted to have dinner”. Stand by

Not remotely comparable.
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By Chaplin 2021-10-13 13:53:27  
Yeah ok.

For real, stand by
 Bahamut.Negan
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By Bahamut.Negan 2021-10-13 13:57:46  
RadialArcana said: »
Some people just like to troll. Imagine getting riled up cause a word was missed form a video title lolo
*thinks of a witty retort with a word missing from a movie title*

*fails*
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2021-10-13 14:07:21  
In the interests of moving past this weird faffing about that nobody is actually confused over, whatever beefs anybody wants to claim are legitimate, here's an observation about the video itself:

It is surprising to see the entire list as weird, traditionally underrepresent hybrid-ish jobs, but on reflection, I think it actually makes perfect sense. A DRK or WAR might have more in the tank than a DNC, but in this, the YOOL 2021, mudflation's gone bananas and you just don't need that anymore. Or, at the very least, Rua and his groups certainly don't. He pretty much comes right out and says this when discussing SCH: WHM is still the stronger brute-force healer, but why wouldn't you want all the other stuff a SCH can do if we've passed the point where the SCH has all the tools and throughput it needs to keep you alive?
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By SimonSes 2021-10-13 14:47:36  
Unpopular opinion but if keeping alive is what's important, then there is probably at least 2 jobs between WHM and SCH, from which BLU probably offers more than SCH in other aspects of the fight.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-10-13 14:59:58  
That's been one of the greatest aspects of FFXI, though. Very few jobs are dedicated specialists. The key is knowing how much of anything is really necessary for the goal at hand.

You probably don't need the healing power of a White Mage if your party already consists of a dedicated tank like Paladin. But maybe you can get away with having a Warrior trying to maintain hate instead.

Having the enmity manipulation of a Bard or even Thief can make niche tanks like Ninja more viable. Or if your damage-dealing jobs have ways to reduce or shed enmity, it helps as well.
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By Chaplin 2021-10-13 15:04:04  
That’s just one of the things this game does better than it’s successor. I can play a job and not be shoehorned into a specific role. Join a group as war and you’re a tank, etc.
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By SimonSes 2021-10-13 15:05:10  
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
Having the enmity manipulation of a Bard or even Thief can make niche tanks like Ninja more viable. Or if your damage-dealing jobs have ways to reduce or shed enmity, it helps as well.

I don't think NIN problem with tanking is enmity. Utsusemi spam is massive enmity tool (even without Darkblade). NIN problem as tank is imo not being able to go past 50%DT and no native phalanx, which is a problem when tanking many enemies at once.
 Asura.Iamaman
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By Asura.Iamaman 2021-10-13 15:26:13  
SimonSes said: »
I don't think NIN problem with tanking is enmity. Utsusemi spam is massive enmity tool (even without Darkblade). NIN problem as tank is imo not being able to go past 50%DT and no native phalanx, which is a problem when tanking many enemies at once.

I'm about to finish my path c Fudo and will experiment with this more, but I tend to agree. I can generally keep hate as long as the party is setup properly. This was the case with 75 cap also, NIN could lose hate to a BLM going too wild or other jobs not managing enmity. That said, the fact katana WS are so weak in comparison to what other jobs are doing (e.g. SAM/DNC knocking out 99k SCs, MNK hitting 50k+ WSs, etc) can make it trickier than it used to be. Yes, I know hybrids can hit 99k, but it is contextual based on elemental weaknesses of the mob (context that isn't required for most other jobs) AND requires path B nyame (back to my first post about how this is out of reach for most).

The issue being that shadow tanking is too difficult right now because you either have too many adds (NIN will never supertank), mobs that wipe shadows, or worse, mobs that bypass shadows. I think SE could balance out NIN for more of a tanking role by fixing the way this works somewhat and making shadows more useful. I think with Darkblade, it might be a creative way to solve this by allowing AoE spells to consume a shadow if everyone in the party has them up when the spell lands, but that may be too much work to implement and is probably a pipe dream.

Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
That's been one of the greatest aspects of FFXI, though. Very few jobs are dedicated specialists. The key is knowing how much of anything is really necessary for the goal at hand.

The job system is one of the reasons I stick around FFXI, the classes are really unique and the way you balance gear and the strengths/weaknesses of certain classes is really cool.

The problem is that a lot of the player base is in a rut when it comes to jobs. Things like doing C farms, they want specific classes (WAR, DRK, etc) and that is it. Like Ruau said his video, convincing people to bring NIN along was a task, I have other friends with similarly geared NINs and they said the same thing. It's just easier to stick with what they know works than deviate outside of that, risk failure, and loss of so much time.

I get it, we're all in on limited time and want to get the job done, I don't blame the playerbase for the way the meta is entirely, SE is partly at fault for making such restrictive content that forces people into these patterns. Unfortunately, a lot of the dynamic nature of the class system kindof falls out due to this. IMO they could solve this by making access to content easier and the content itself harder.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-10-13 15:28:33  
SimonSes said: »
I don't think NIN problem with tanking is enmity. Utsusemi spam is massive enmity tool (even without Darkblade). NIN problem as tank is imo not being able to go past 50%DT and no native phalanx, which is a problem when tanking many enemies at once.
Right. Sorry, I'm not totally up to speed on the endgame meta anymore. Kinda speaking from past experience and secondhand information.

My point was more the interlocking puzzle we get to play with when creating parties. I love that a job like Monk has more beef, but less enmity control; in stark contrast to a job like Dragoon whose split damage and jumps give them more room for hate, but has a fragile pet to keep healthy. Yet both are dedicated damage-dealers.

It's difficult to truly compare jobs when even a role as simple as "DPS" has as much variety as it does.
 Asura.Veikur
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By Asura.Veikur 2021-10-13 15:46:07  
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
in stark contrast to a job like Dragoon whose split damage and jumps give them more room for hate, but has a fragile pet to keep healthy.
It's more a matter of keeping yourself alive so you don't have to deal with being mediocre for up to 20 minutes.

Little blue buddy is at least, if not more so, durable than the Dragoon is. Might've changed a bit now that DRG can actually stack meva.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-10-13 16:25:11  
Still don't know why almost 20 years later, Call Wyvern is on a 20 minute timer.
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 Asura.Iamaman
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By Asura.Iamaman 2021-10-13 16:46:54  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Still don't know why almost 20 years later, Call Wyvern is on a 20 minute timer.

Probably the same reason Bestial Loyalty is on a 20minute timer.

...because....

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