New To The Idea Of PLD/Blue And Have A Few Questio

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2010-06-21
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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Paladin » New to the idea of PLD/Blue and have a few questio
New to the idea of PLD/Blue and have a few questio
 Sylph.Kawar
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By Sylph.Kawar 2021-08-10 09:20:59  
Well i am so used to Pld/war and been told for years its a live or die /war but now i am more and more getting asked by my ls and others to /blu and after reading 1 of the guides I kind of understand the upsides to /war and /blu respectably.

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but heres what i keep asking and no one tells me

its hard for me to understand this part from a guide cuss i learn better from doing and failing till i win but i really want to get better faster so i can be more useful to my ls and help them out as well.

what i have come 2 is /war is good for 1-3 mobs and the one thing i was holding out cuss of defender the spell spell gives more def and as pld that is a big deal.

so what I am asking can someone give me a kind of you enter a fight then what do you do as /blu with PLD so i can do something and practice so i can do it with out thinking when i do ls stuff and i am not practicing as much in those events.


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I know i will have more questions so please be fair with me
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By Crossbones 2021-08-10 09:53:32  
/war isn't good if you're only tanking a few enemies, it's basically never good and worse than /blu in every way. Defender is less defense than cocoon and if you lose it you are subject to cooldown. Provoke is basically useless, only volotile enmity that, if you use it with 0 enmity gear, will completely decay by the time it is up again. If you have 50 enmity when you use provoke half of the enmity will be gone by the time it's up, it's a total dogshit hate tool and always has been. Even at 75 cap /drk was significantly better at holding hate. Cures are also not that great for hate, as the more mobs you tank the more your hate is split among those mobs for each cure.

Tanking /blu is pretty simple. Keep cocoon up if you need it (taking less damage helps you retain cumulative enmity better), set some enmity spells such as geist wall, jettatura, sheep song, sopoforic, blank gaze, etc. Use those spells to get hate. A bunch of spells have similar ranges and hate values so just pick a few because unless you are severely haste starved you should be able to cycle 3-4 of them indefinitely. You also have JA for hate such as rampart and sentinel etc.

I don't play pld, I play rune, but it's basically the same thing. Tanking in this game isn't hard, like at all. I'm sure other people will come with more complete advice such as sird sets, atonement, etc, but the general strategy is pretty simple.
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By zigzagzig 2021-08-10 10:24:23  
Also all blu spell Aoe , should be link to your midcast.enmity (SETS)

simple but very effective ( ps: i suck on pld, but its a Job lol, need to play it to learn the Curve )
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 Asura.Wotasu
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By Asura.Wotasu 2021-08-10 10:38:02  
There are 2 types of Enmity: Volatile Enmity(VE) & Cumulative Enmity(CE)
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Enmity

The Enmity from naked Provoke is 1800 VE and 0 CE. VE decrease at -60/second which after 30sec is -1800(VE)enmity.
So all Enmity gained from a +0Enmity Provoke is lost after 30sec. Now adding Enmity gear boosts that VE, but you still get 0 CE and VE degrades overtime.
Defender raise defense by +25% while Cocoon from /blu is +50%

The only AoE Tag pld/war gets is the native Banishga which sucks when you dont want to wake mobs up.
/blu you get Geist Wall/Sheep Song/Soporific 320VE & 320CE for AoE Tagging which dont wake stuff up, other usefull Enmity spells are Blank Gaze 320VE/CE, Jettatura 1020VE & CE180.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Community_Paladin_Guide#Notes_on_Tanking_.2FBLU

So as /war you sit there with Flash Provoke Warcry for Hate Tools(+ Pld JA's), while /blu you get many more small options. Tho if I only need to Tank 1 mob, I spam Atonement+Flash.

Usefull places to /blu is Odyssey C high Defense, AoE Tags, but you need a SIRD set if you cant line up all mobs to abuse blockrate on shield.
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By Nariont 2021-08-10 10:43:38  
if you're tanking a single mob, /drk's the way to go, as stun is just a 2nd flash both in hate and recast. If its a mix of single/multi target or multi-target then you'd use /blu, which is the majority of content. /war is almost never a good sub in terms of tanking
 Sylph.Kawar
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By Sylph.Kawar 2021-08-10 13:08:17  
what do you guys mean when you say CE?

do you just mean hate or is it a special term?
 Ragnarok.Ragingmonkey
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By Ragnarok.Ragingmonkey 2021-08-10 13:37:41  
Asura.Wotasu said: »
There are 2 types of Enmity: Volatile Enmity(VE) & Cumulative Enmity(CE)
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Enmity

This link provides more info about enmity, a lot of good info.
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By Crossbones 2021-08-10 15:55:56  
Sylph.Kawar said: »
what do you guys mean when you say CE?

do you just mean hate or is it a special term?

Check the links people posted.
 Sylph.Kawar
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By Sylph.Kawar 2021-08-10 21:59:24  
Asura.Wotasu said: »
There are 2 types of Enmity: Volatile Enmity(VE) & Cumulative Enmity(CE)
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Enmity

The Enmity from naked Provoke is 1800 VE and 0 CE. VE decrease at -60/second which after 30sec is -1800(VE)enmity.
So all Enmity gained from a +0Enmity Provoke is lost after 30sec. Now adding Enmity gear boosts that VE, but you still get 0 CE and VE degrades overtime.
Defender raise defense by +25% while Cocoon from /blu is +50%

The only AoE Tag pld/war gets is the native Banishga which sucks when you dont want to wake mobs up.
/blu you get Geist Wall/Sheep Song/Soporific 320VE & 320CE for AoE Tagging which dont wake stuff up, other usefull Enmity spells are Blank Gaze 320VE/CE, Jettatura 1020VE & CE180.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Community_Paladin_Guide#Notes_on_Tanking_.2FBLU

So as /war you sit there with Flash Provoke Warcry for Hate Tools(+ Pld JA's), while /blu you get many more small options. Tho if I only need to Tank 1 mob, I spam Atonement+Flash.

Usefull places to /blu is Odyssey C high Defense, AoE Tags, but you need a SIRD set if you cant line up all mobs to abuse blockrate on shield.
Atonement but i thought that caps at like 1250 or something like that for damage the max damage is your max hate. Or am i remembering how that works wrong?

but i do not understand why atonement over savage blade
 Leviathan.Boposhopo
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By Leviathan.Boposhopo 2021-08-10 22:06:33  
Sylph.Kawar said: »
Asura.Wotasu said: »
There are 2 types of Enmity: Volatile Enmity(VE) & Cumulative Enmity(CE)
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Enmity

The Enmity from naked Provoke is 1800 VE and 0 CE. VE decrease at -60/second which after 30sec is -1800(VE)enmity.
So all Enmity gained from a +0Enmity Provoke is lost after 30sec. Now adding Enmity gear boosts that VE, but you still get 0 CE and VE degrades overtime.
Defender raise defense by +25% while Cocoon from /blu is +50%

The only AoE Tag pld/war gets is the native Banishga which sucks when you dont want to wake mobs up.
/blu you get Geist Wall/Sheep Song/Soporific 320VE & 320CE for AoE Tagging which dont wake stuff up, other usefull Enmity spells are Blank Gaze 320VE/CE, Jettatura 1020VE & CE180.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Community_Paladin_Guide#Notes_on_Tanking_.2FBLU

So as /war you sit there with Flash Provoke Warcry for Hate Tools(+ Pld JA's), while /blu you get many more small options. Tho if I only need to Tank 1 mob, I spam Atonement+Flash.

Usefull places to /blu is Odyssey C high Defense, AoE Tags, but you need a SIRD set if you cant line up all mobs to abuse blockrate on shield.
Atonement but i thought that caps at like 1250 or something like that for damage the max damage is your max hate. Or am i remembering how that works wrong?

but i do not understand why atonement over savage blade

Atonement enmity gain is fixed and not based on damage dealt. You ideally want max enm+ in your atonement WS to max out the amount of enmity generated. For reference it's 900VE/300CE @1000 TP and scales based on TP.
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2021-08-10 22:30:47  
/War is good for when you have to keep running around for trash mob and don't have much time to cast cocoon. Defender is a cheaper version that will work while running.

/Blu works better most of the time unless you don't have MP or can't cast spells. However, it seriously needs a fast cast set. You can get away with SIRD on /War but blue spells takes a long time to cast and you don't want to spend that much time casting.
 Asura.Wotasu
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By Asura.Wotasu 2021-08-11 02:50:34  
Sylph.Kawar said: »
Atonement but i thought that caps at like 1250 or something like that for damage the max damage is your max hate. Or am i remembering how that works wrong?

but i do not understand why atonement over savage blade
It is less effective if you dont have Burtgang, but if you do, and have an R15 Burtgang the Enmity Generation is very powerful from spamming Atonement.

This s the Enmity Value of Naked(no equip) Flash vs Atonement
Code
Action              CE   VE
Flash               180  1280
Atonement(1kTP)     300  900
Atonement(1kTP,R15) 600  1800

Add in Enmity+ gear and those values just goes up.

With Am3 up on Burtgang you can toss out an Atonement 2-3 times for every flash if you can TP fast enough.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-08-11 04:59:35  
Hmmm, that table looks really familiar. lol, XD. Glad to see that example was useful.
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 Asura.Wotasu
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By Asura.Wotasu 2021-08-11 05:33:45  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Hmmm, that table looks really familiar. lol, XD. Glad to see that example was useful.
Yes, I did forget to credit you >.> was busy.. It was on my mind, but got sidetracked c.c by game.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-08-11 05:44:45  
Asura.Wotasu said: »
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Hmmm, that table looks really familiar. lol, XD. Glad to see that example was useful.
Yes, I did forget to credit you >.> was busy.. It was on my mind, but got sidetracked c.c by game.
Not a problem. Was just tickled to see it. XD
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 Sylph.Kawar
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By Sylph.Kawar 2021-08-21 09:49:28  
is there an order to the blue spells i should cast when tanking as a pld or should i just spam the set spells that my ls has already told me
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By Crossbones 2021-08-21 10:28:58  
Look up the enmity values of the spells and the recast timers, look at how much haste you have and what those timers will be at your haste value. If you are haste capped you can probably just rotate 3 spells indefinitely. At some point you are going to have to learn and understand these mechanics yourself and not rely on following what people tell you because sometimes what people tell you might not be correct. A bunch of the spells have similar hate values, recast, and range. Look em up and learn them and apply them to whatever situation you are facing. If you have no haste obviously you will need to use more spells because your cool downs will be longer.
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