The "i Got Screwed Over" Thread

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2010-06-21
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the "i got screwed over" thread
 Asura.Sutebe
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By Asura.Sutebe 2020-06-29 14:57:39  
Quetzalcoatl.Commencal said: »
Before the stopper was introduced to Neo Nyzul Isle

Totally forgot about that, almost as fun as the poor group who got the double einherjar boss while we got chest on entry.
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By Shichishito 2020-06-29 17:51:56  
point systems are only fair on the surface. in reality it was just a system to control the group and make sure certain ppl get their favorite item first.
even in the rare instances (never seen it happen) where leaders wouldn't suddenly have extra points on their account or the loot rules changed last minute it wasn't really fair. it was just a way to pit ppl against each other so you'd see scummy behaviour like bidding on items you had no use for just to drive the price up for the ppl who need it or use alt accounts.

fair would have been to share entrance fee among participants, let all valuables drop randomly and free lot on equipment items you need.
that way everyone gets a fair chance for the work they put into without endlessly prolonging the already endless runs and introduceing error sources and trust based leadership. imho its also better for the leadership as they need to spend less time with BS like keep tracking of point system and bidding. thats of course only the case if they didn't plan to screw everyone over eventually, in that case they are always better of with a point system.

and don't get me started on HNM LS and camping, that entire system was designed around botting and with unfathomable hatred towards their player base.
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-29 19:33:25  
Shichishito said: »
fair would have been to share eentrance fee among participants, let all valuables drop randomly and free lot on equipment items you need.

This..... Like, this was the intention of this content.

They *** up by making it so only one person had to purchase a an entry item.

Should have been just a deduction from alliance member's gil upon time of entry, scale-able or straight fee.

I guess they needed a work around to have 2 alliance be able to share an instance.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-29 19:57:17  
With FFXI being my (and probably many others) first MMO, I didn't really give much thought into the dynamis finesse of old days. It's fun to look back and laugh about it now because I really didn't know wat was going on, nor did I really care too much. A lot of us probably saw the goal of making a relic weapon back then and was not interested in such a time sink. We were just happy to do group content with real players.

Now the alternative is you can finish those same weapons (that are arguably all trash now) in a few short hours and you can entirely skip doing dynamis with real players, and just play with a half dozen versions of yourself. And then quit in a few months when the game is too easy for you. Ignorance was bliss.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-06-29 20:01:57  
I mean it mirrors real life. You work your whole life to make your boss rich, and you get the scraps.

You're literally raised into it, you didn't think it's *** up cause it's the only option you knew.

(Everyone splits the payment and gets fair drops? ***' commies!)
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By Shichishito 2020-06-29 20:43:18  
opening a buisness comes with a lot of risks. you need funds for eventual liability cases, equipment, office or storage space and what not. it can also take a while till a buisness turns a profit.
most ppl don't have those funds, don't want to safe up that mutch just to risk it, have responsibilities and want a safe income without attached risks to live up to them or don't want to make a lot of debt but for those that want to i think there is nothing that stops them to do so.

guess ingame comparisons to irl always end up limping due to the cost of living irl and potential loss of economic standards after taking a risk and losing.
 Cpu
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By Cpu 2020-06-29 21:21:14  
If I'm unhappy in my current job because I feel like I provide more value than I receive in compensation then I go and find a new one. Linkshells work the same way. And to be fair to Squeenix, at least they actually tried out the whole UBI scheme with sparks and accolades, even if it failed miserably.
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By Felgarr 2020-06-29 21:24:49  
Cpu said: »
If I'm unhappy in my current job because I feel like I provide more value than I receive in compensation then I go and find a new one. Linkshells work the same way. And to be fair to Squeenix, at least they actually tried out the whole UBI scheme with sparks and accolades, even if it failed miserably.

It's because the stupid way they added unity trusts. They should be earned in a way that is separate from unity membership
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By Prong 2020-06-29 23:10:04  
Drayco said: »
Lots of people bashing the old dynamis leader system, which I kind of understand... but if you've never ran a 50+ member LS then you're just not going to understand the work required.

Setting up 2 alliances and having to coordinate everybody's jobs sucks. Having to pay attention to what everybody is doing in the run. God forbid you're also the puller or main tank creates even more work. On top of all that, having to pull up the attendance point list when something drops and figure out who get's the drop.

I will never feel bad for creating my first relic this way, I earned that ***. I also never took AF drops since I was getting currency.

This right here. Those who have never led anything more complicated than an XP party should stand down on this one. My first character I literally deleted it after 7 years of play (during the tsunami week in JP where they shut down to let people use their backup generators) due to the sheer pressure of leading a shell.

Soon as you log in, you'd get /tell after /tell, from prospective members, current members updating you on everything someone they did not like said in LS chat while you were gone, leaders of other shells looking to see if you wanted to collaborate or if you had Pop Item X, "Do you merc?"...."What's my points? WHAT?? I missed some during the month I disappeared and am not #1 anymore???!?!?!??!?!?!"

My favorite: "Can my mom/dad/brother/sister/real life buddy join our "invite only based on jobs" HNMLS like, now? Yeah, they just started playing....level 1...they need our help!"

Being the leader of a shell that ran events (back in the day) was literally a job. A real life job. So if anyone got their knickers in a twitch because they felt like simply gearing a job and showing up and being asked to do a certain role meant they should be on equal footing with the leader, it just was not the case. And most of the times, not all but most, the leaders I dealt with over the years were some of the more generous people in the shell and were rarely the ones trying to screw everyone over to get theirs.
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By Shichishito 2020-06-30 00:24:13  
i agree, the leader does have to deal with more than the other members but if 17-35 others slaving over a year for your free relic was part of the official job description you would not have been able to fill a 18 man alliance anymore, everyone would have opened their own dyna shell.

a lot of the strain like keeping track of point system, bidding or mercing is 100% self imposed. at some point good leadership also means to delegate tasks to others but that would be a potential threat to the leaders new shiny unless he has some handy real life buddies.

the former shell mates must have been in pure delight when their leader decided on a whim to throw away the relics they slaved for 7 years straight.

i assume everyone appears to be upright or generous when you think its ok to lead on dozens of ppl to do years of slave labor for your personal gain.
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 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-30 07:41:32  
Shichishito said: »
the former shell mates must have been in pure delight when their leader decided on a whim to throw away the relics they slaved for 7 years straight.
Biggest kick in the balls right here, and it happened all the time, with much more than just Dynamis.
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By Drayco 2020-06-30 08:06:10  
Shichishito said: »
i agree, the leader does have to deal with more than the other members but if 17-35 others slaving over a year for your free relic was part of the official job description you would not have been able to fill a 18 man alliance anymore, everyone would have opened their own dyna shell.

You can't say that you "agree the leader does deal with more" and in the same breath say "free relic".

Dynamis entry was 1m per run, there were times when only 12 people would show up for the run and we wouldn't even make 1m worth of currency. I was paying out of pocket for runs all the time when I first started my shell. I was 100 Goldsmith so gil wasn't hard to make... But for months I would pay out of pocket to get our group into Dynamis and basically pay 50% more than I should be for currency while not taking any AF drops at all.

Prong said: »
Those who have never led anything more complicated than an XP party should stand down on this one.
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By Shichishito 2020-06-30 08:49:53  
Drayco said: »
You can't say that you "agree the leader does deal with more" and in the same breath say "free relic".
i can, i just did. do you really want to pretend ppl sponsored runs out of pure altruism?

i also said most of the extra work a leader had to put in was self imposed and the motivation behind it was gaining more control over the shell and keep ppl distracted playing the crabs in a bucket game.

strip away the self imposed chores and whats left is deciding when to do what content and organizing parties. nothing of what they did comes even remotely close to be honored with a free relic carried on the backs of dozens of members.
leaders were aware of that fact which is why they never said it upfront.

nevertheless i believe there should be some sort of compensation system implemented (by the FFXI devs, not by players). i just imagine it would be very hard to implement without beeing prone to abuse by the surplus of alt accounts.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-06-30 09:01:45  
Shichishito said: »
i also said most of the extra work a leader had to put in was self imposed and the motivation behind it was gaining more control over the shell and keep ppl distracted playing the crabs in a bucket game.
I highly doubt that all of the dynamis leaders of old were that conniving. The only person I can see who would be like that would be Eiryl, and that is just his nature.

I think it's more of a "hey, <insert other leader's name> is running a successful shell, let me copy it!" and then discovering how incredibly profitable it is. Some cases you might actually see the honest ones stay honest, but most of the time they just keep doing what other shells are doing just to not "rock the boat."
 Odin.Foxmulder
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By Odin.Foxmulder 2020-06-30 09:28:23  
I'm also 100% sure it never led to any RMT activities whatsoever.

Those poor Dynamis LS leaders!
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-06-30 09:31:58  
Look, if you are going to be factious, by all means, at least read what is posted first.

Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I highly doubt that all of the dynamis leaders of old were that conniving.

It's like claiming an entire group of people guilty for a crime only 4 people committed.

...wait, didn't something like this happen just recently?
 Fenrir.Aladeus
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By Fenrir.Aladeus 2020-06-30 10:22:22  
i had a friend on unicorn that was in a couple of different dynamis ls's over time, and there were a couple of leaders that actually split the entry fee and currency evenly after stuff sold etc. it worked alright for them for however long they ran it for. so yes, not all leaders were in it for themselves. that being said, i was also part of the 3 year and still not getting it wait list for the duelist's chapeau.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-06-30 10:47:36  
Fenrir.Aladeus said: »
that being said, i was also part of the 3 year and still not getting it wait list for the duelist's chapeau.
I think a lot of us were. Mainly for not giving a crap enough to run our own shells or groups, partly for us being lazy as crap and delegating it to another, who reaped the rewards.
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By Shichishito 2020-07-01 00:38:41  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
The only person I can see who would be like that would be Eiryl, and that is just his nature.
if i got it correctly then eiryls justification for his behaviour was receiving a unjustly ban and is directed at SE as some sort of revenge.
if he pulled what most endgame shell leaders pulled back then, which was pressumably befor the ban (?), then i guess i got it wrong cause that stuff is clearly aimed against shell mates and not SE.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-01 00:41:49  
Shichishito said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
The only person I can see who would be like that would be Eiryl, and that is just his nature.
if i got it correctly then eiryls justification for his behaviour was receiving a unjustly ban and is directed at SE as some sort of revenge.
if he pulled what most endgame shell leaders pulled back then, which was pressumably befor the ban (?), then i guess i got it wrong cause that stuff is clearly aimed against shell mates and not SE.
No, his character shows that he would be screw over anyone in a heartbeat, not just in this game, but in real life. Just going by his posts on this website and his lack of empathy towards his fellow man.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-01 10:35:34  
Oh will you seriously cut this ***out. For *** sake. Grow the *** up.

You take everything personally.

Dynamis was hot garbage. The gear was ***, and you people were gullible. I didn't want to kill trash for 2 hours twice a week. So the logical outcome was "sponsor" runs. And there happened to be people "willing" (ie dumb enough) to go for it... so, yeah.

You getting passed over or out pointed for hats had nothing to do with me. Just paying idiots to waste their time for me to make gil(i wasn't selling). yay capitalism.
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By Mattelot 2020-07-06 11:47:45  
Bahamut.Negan said: »
I'm still subscribing. Someone do the math for 1 character from NA launch to now.

Think that's a lot, imagine how much some of the credit card players have spent over the years.
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By Mattelot 2020-07-06 11:52:09  
Xaander said: »
Not every point system was designed fairly. Even the ones that were, the problem is what you mentioned. Most of time everyone had to strictly adhere to the rules, except for the leader and their closest cronies. Saw plenty of fair systems that suddenly worked differently with no prior warning in regard to whatever the very rarest items were at a given time. At that point, the rank and file are too invested with points to not put up with the *** and the cycle repeats. That was a common experience.

Well said. Our original level 75 LS had a very fair point system that tipped the scales more in favor of those who participated the most versus those who only show up once in a blue moon.

That was all shot to hell when one of the only 3 people (main leader, myself and "the guy") decided that his little 6 person clique could go hang out together and BS and be awarded "points" for it and were the only ones ever getting anything at any event, causing many good players to go "screw this..." and leave.
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