Great Swords

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Great Swords
 Bahamut.Thunderballz
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By Bahamut.Thunderballz 2015-09-30 14:22:57  
I played for many years but then took a couple year break that I have pretty recently returned from.

Can someone please point out a convenient list of the 5~ best greatswords for DRK nowadays? I've been researching it but it's likely that there are things that I'm missing.

The guide on here still says that Ragnarok is the best, but I see one on the AH that seems clearly better, etc.

Thanks ^^/
 Bahamut.Aquatic
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By Bahamut.Aquatic 2015-09-30 14:53:53  
40 Accuracy, Critical Hit rate bonus, Occasionally attacks for 2.5x damage, and near Hundred Fists attack speed with Haste 2 + full desperate blows... It'll be a cold cold cold day in hell before any other Great Sword beats Ragnarok.

I've been a Great Sword DRK since 2005, take that bit of info for what it's worth.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Ninjaface
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By Quetzalcoatl.Ninjaface 2015-09-30 14:55:05  
My intuition is that you're either overlooking something or undervaluing accuracy and hidden effects.
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By Zaeeth 2015-09-30 15:04:36  
Ragnarok is still a really good GS especially in high accuracy settings. I have it and still love the weapon.

MacBain is my current go to GS on DRK. With +18 acc/att, +36 Base Dmg, and +5% DA the thing is a monster.

Humility isn't bad either if you can get the capped version.

Malfeasance and its +1 version are pretty good but lack the accuracy needed for current content.

Nullis +1 from Unity looks pretty solid too. Almost on par with a well augmented MacBain.

Nibiru Fausser can be decent but its more of a RUN weapon with that Aquaviel +1 but the Cure Potency on it says "Souleater" to me :P.
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 Bahamut.Thunderballz
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By Bahamut.Thunderballz 2015-09-30 15:17:38  
Thank you for your responses.

I'm still not used to this whole "accuracy is more important than anything" aspect to ilvl content.

I already have a couple of relics, and it's drastically easier to make gil than it was when I did them, so doing Ragnarok won't be much of a stretch for me.

I just didn't want to go through making and spending all that gil only to find out I missed something.

Thanks again ^^>
 Quetzalcoatl.Ninjaface
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By Quetzalcoatl.Ninjaface 2015-09-30 15:28:31  
Bahamut.Thunderballz said: »
I'm still not used to this whole "accuracy is more important than anything" aspect to ilvl content.
It isn't really an issue of the ilvl content as much as it is that they've just decided to make so many things very very evasive. capping your accuracy has always been incredibly important, and it is the best way to raise lagging damage in every MMO I have played. It seems more valued now because it you require such a large amount of it to do respectable damage.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-10-01 00:05:09  
Bahamut.Thunderballz said: »
'm still not used to this whole "accuracy is more important than anything" aspect to ilvl content.

It has to do with how monsters stats have scaled past 99. Their evasion has gone up at a much greater rate then our natural accuracy and thus you end up with much greater accuracy gaps. Before you would be looking at a delta of 50~100, nothing sushi couldn't take care of. Now your looking at a delta of 250~300. 1 point of accuracy is the exact same .5% hit rate at iLevel 135 as it is at level 10. So before 25~50% under capped hit rate, now -125~150% under hit rate. That's a whole lot to make up for so we cram as much accuracy as we can with accuracy buffs, sushi and merits / abilities in order to break even.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2015-10-01 02:57:50  
Bahamut.Thunderballz said: »
I'm still not used to this whole "accuracy is more important than anything" aspect to ilvl content.
Tbf it's a pretty recent aspect.
Originally, before they added +skill to weapons, Accuracy was a vital part and most DDs were struggling even with a plethora of buffs.
After that patch, things changed and accuracy became less important for a long time.
Recently, slowly and progressively (over the last... year?) they've been adding more high level stuff and the more they did so the more accuracy was necessary.
At this point in time most end game content requires a lot of accuracy in gear even with moderate acc buffs from buffing classes.
It kinda depends what kind of content you intend to tackle and which buffing classes you're bringing over.
For a good number of High Tier Battlefields you can get through with a moderate number of accuracy which you can reach in several ways. For other content you're gonna be requiring every single point of accuracy you can stack no matter the source.
If you're interested in Apex monsters the necessary acc level to cap on them differs from mob to mob of course, but I think on a large number of them (crabs in Dho for instance) you cap at around 1150ish accuracy (you can check with the "/checkparam <me>" command)
For stuff like Sinister Reign it depends on the target and the wave, but on average you're gonna need something like 1100 for wave 1, 1200ish for wave 2 and around 1300 for wave 3.


If you want a better insight on how mathematically useful and efficient it is to go this route, check Saevel's post.
Couldn't explain it better than he did.
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 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-10-01 05:24:01  
It really matters what content you are doing and what job you are using. Drk falls in the cluster of 2 handed jobs that have horrible accuracy issues currently, which is kind of funny considering there was a time when Drk had the best accuracy options in the game.

It's worth noting that the large majority of events people do in this game usually don't require accuracy to any degree, or at least very little. Unless your planning to do T3 Escha or Sinister Reign you may find that accuracy isn't very important to you. You may find the need to still use Sushi or switch into a small amount of accuracy for things like HTBs, Delve 2, and higher level unities but they don't require amounts that make accuracy so insanely valuable.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2015-10-01 05:56:37  
Yeah I agree with Failaras.
The accuracy number you need for the majority of this type of content isn't too high.
You can reach it through a combination of various means.
Light buffs, moderate acc gear and sushi.
Full acc gear and sushi.
default TP gear sushi and some better buffs
defauòt TP gear, meat and some powerful buffs
And so on and so on.

If you can reach 1200 acc you're gonna be mooooore than safe for the majority of content the game has to offer at this point in time, except a small number of things (most of which Failaras already listed) that obviously require more.
Not sure you'd want to go DRK for this type of content in the first place though.


Asura.Failaras said: »
which is kind of funny
It is indeed ironic but it's a never-ending cycle and considering november will be the "last" big patch I'm not sure we'll ever going to see an end to this.
Previously it was 1h/dw jobs who had accuracy issues because of the 0.5 Dex>Acc conversion ratio (2h, as we all know, have a 0.75 one).
Then they fixed it for 1h weapons to have the same ratio.
In addition to that, a large part of 1h weapons have accuracy bonus on them.
The "skill" stat is separate for each hand, but the +accuracy stats on weapons apply to both of them.
So if you have +25acc on weapon1 and +25acc on weapon2, you're basically receiving +50acc on both hands.
Which is why these days most of the time DW jobs can easily reach higher acc than 2h jobs. (and let's not forget that mainhand now has a higher acc cap than offhand and 2h weapons)
The wheel has turned.
In before they try to "fix" this and swap the situation again, where 2h jobs will have it easier and nobody will want 1h/dw jobs because of their issues in reaching the required levels of acc for a certain type of content...
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 Sylph.Safiyyah
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-10-01 11:04:02  
Bahamut.Thunderballz said: »
Thank you for your responses.

I'm still not used to this whole "accuracy is more important than anything" aspect to ilvl content.

I already have a couple of relics, and it's drastically easier to make gil than it was when I did them, so doing Ragnarok won't be much of a stretch for me.

I just didn't want to go through making and spending all that gil only to find out I missed something.

Thanks again ^^>

To kind of add to what Sechs said, and others, accuracy is valuable, but in content where it's most valuable, DRK isn't usually going to be the first or even the fifth option as a job. The content where you'll probably use DRK, accuracy is less valuable, and that favors stuff like max Macbain over Ragnarok. I'm talking about content like lower Unity, Delve, etc.

It seems like crazy sky-high accuracy requirements have actually made Ragnarok valuable again, by the way. When Macbain came out it basically destroyed Rag but, in situations where you need every point of accuracy, relic should be a pretty good option now?
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 Bahamut.Thunderballz
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By Bahamut.Thunderballz 2015-10-01 17:27:08  
Since returning, it seems to me that all anyone wants in the DD category is SAM. On my old char, which I got rid of 2010, I had more 75's than I knew what to do with, including every major DD. I always found SAM to be a bit monotonous and have never bothered to seriously level it on my new char, although I have quite a few jobs on my new char also.

I started getting into WAR before I went on my extended break (beginning in 2013), and was sad to see that it has become the worst DD now. To be fair, though, we all know how SE rotates jobs. Give it another year and WAR will probably be tops again.

I always had fun on DRK though, if for no other reason than challenging myself to try to commit suicide using Souleater. What can I say, I like swinging greatswords around, Guts in Berserk style.

I know the game has become a cookiecutter setup nightmare, with job snobs nitpicking every little thing, and I really don't care. I didn't come back to play politics, I came back to have fun. I ran an endgame LS for 4 yrs (2006-2010) and I'll quit before I go through that politically correct b.s. again. If one of the jobs I like to play isn't good enough to do something, then I won't bother doing it. Screw SAM.

/endrant

For things that I can't use a DD job I like for, I always have support jobs, and sooner or later I'll modernize my PLD. I didn't spend all that time and gil in 2012/13 on Aegis and Excal for nothing.

Thank you all for your information and advice. You have been a massive help. ^^>
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 Quetzalcoatl.Ninjaface
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By Quetzalcoatl.Ninjaface 2015-10-01 18:22:56  
People want SAM so much because, as far as I understand the climate of events lately, they want to bring as few melees as possible, if any(due to a huge amount of ridiculous factors), and SAM is the most adept at making frequent and consistent skill chains for the mages and support to burst on.
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 Carbuncle.Skudo
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By Carbuncle.Skudo 2015-10-01 18:54:55  
People "want" SAM so much, because that's how they've done things for a long while.

Bringing SAM to a SC+MB setup in addition to a tank most of the time is just counter-productive, because that SAM usually needs support to hit whatever they need to hit for their SCs, too. If stuff isn't evasive at all, then you might as well just toss in another DD and shift support towards those 1-2 DDs.

tl;dr: If you want to have a focused SC+MB setup, scratch that SAM. Bring one 550+ SCH or two non-550+ SCHs instead.

In the end, unless it's the highest end of the content scale, you probably could even toss DRKs and WARs at stuff and still end up victorious. Heck, even gimptarded BLMs get their jobs done somehow, after all.
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 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-10-01 20:10:24  
It's the same reason people shouted for Monks in delve 6 months after they were actually good. Sam is better than Drk/War but has the same accuracy issues that all 2 handers have. Even when accuracy isn't an issue they still really can't stand up to Blu. Melee already have enough issues standing up to mages as is.
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 Sylph.Safiyyah
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-10-02 12:18:36  
Bahamut.Thunderballz said: »
Since returning, it seems to me that all anyone wants in the DD category is SAM. On my old char, which I got rid of 2010, I had more 75's than I knew what to do with, including every major DD. I always found SAM to be a bit monotonous and have never bothered to seriously level it on my new char, although I have quite a few jobs on my new char also.

I started getting into WAR before I went on my extended break (beginning in 2013), and was sad to see that it has become the worst DD now. To be fair, though, we all know how SE rotates jobs. Give it another year and WAR will probably be tops again.

I always had fun on DRK though, if for no other reason than challenging myself to try to commit suicide using Souleater. What can I say, I like swinging greatswords around, Guts in Berserk style.

I know the game has become a cookiecutter setup nightmare, with job snobs nitpicking every little thing, and I really don't care. I didn't come back to play politics, I came back to have fun. I ran an endgame LS for 4 yrs (2006-2010) and I'll quit before I go through that politically correct b.s. again. If one of the jobs I like to play isn't good enough to do something, then I won't bother doing it. Screw SAM.

/endrant

For things that I can't use a DD job I like for, I always have support jobs, and sooner or later I'll modernize my PLD. I didn't spend all that time and gil in 2012/13 on Aegis and Excal for nothing.

Thank you all for your information and advice. You have been a massive help. ^^>

No melee are in great shape right now. Some (DNC, BLU, SAM) are in better shape than others (DRK, WAR) but you need good, focused support to use melee damage dealers, period. That's at a premium right now in XI. If you love dark knight, gear it and use it in groups with friends. On Sylph at least, the game has mostly devolved into low-man/LS groups doing content, instead of big shouts. Some LSes might do cookie cutter strats but not all.

Hold out hope that S-E restores some balance come November. 2handers need buffs across the board, especially dark knight and warrior. We just might get them. I love DRK too and I'd like to see it be relevant again. The current state of the game's balance is pretty poor for all melee, but especially 2handers.
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 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-10-02 12:55:51  
War has needed buffs for literally the entirety of SoA and they haven't touched any of its important aspects other than a minor berserk buff. SE is just really bad at identifying what part of a jobs kit needs a buff, the same goes for Drk which constantly gets casting buffs when it needs WS and TP gain buffs.
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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2015-10-02 13:29:05  
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
Bahamut.Thunderballz said: »

No melee are in great shape right now. Some (DNC, BLU, SAM) are in better shape than others (DRK, WAR) but you need GEO Vex/Attunement, period. That's at a premium right now in XI. If you love dark knight, gear it and use it in groups with friends. On Sylph at least, the game has mostly devolved into low-man/LS groups doing content, instead of big shouts. Some LSes might do cookie cutter strats but not all.

Ftfy.
 Sylph.Safiyyah
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-10-02 15:21:06  
Sylph.Systematicchaos said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
Bahamut.Thunderballz said: »

No melee are in great shape right now. Some (DNC, BLU, SAM) are in better shape than others (DRK, WAR) but you need GEO Vex/Attunement, period. That's at a premium right now in XI. If you love dark knight, gear it and use it in groups with friends. On Sylph at least, the game has mostly devolved into low-man/LS groups doing content, instead of big shouts. Some LSes might do cookie cutter strats but not all.

Ftfy.

Well, on stuff like that Escha Seiryu we did the other night, probably need, in addition to magic defense bubbles, full acc buffs, not just geo, but Madrigals, Boost-DEX, etc. Which sucks.

Using hard ACC checks to tier content is garbage, and I'll continue to criticize that as bad design.
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By Gruknor 2015-10-04 14:15:08  
I hope that the november update gives 2handers something to do besides play bst or geo.
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