How Bad Are We Gimping Our Party?

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2010-06-21
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How bad are we gimping our party?
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2015-01-29 15:15:00  
can they nerf rudra for thf yet
 Sylph.Limlight
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By Sylph.Limlight 2015-01-29 15:17:58  
i'm just happy to see people still playing the jobs that they love, the thf stuff isn't even entertaining anymore.

I have to add that since I only play with good friends I always move to screw up TA and laugh on vent as I do so, or we make the mob spin so our mythic nin can't get into innin position. friends <3
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 Quetzalcoatl.Valli
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By Quetzalcoatl.Valli 2015-01-29 16:15:59  
I was sitting there thinking about more or less what lim said. Are we really at this point were everything is zealotry still?

This isn't 2005 fighting over fluffy anymore. There's no challenge, we're in our 30s ffs. Will we ever grow up and get past the slightly less dps is unusable phase, I mean really. PET jobs, need legitimate boosts. 2handed non-fudo could use a SMALL boost. 2handed white damage is terrible.

Yeah war is little bit behind, so what. It's no more behind than anything else if you aren't try-harding. I know this will piss people off but do you guys honestly put this much effort into ***anymore, honestly.

I can't even remember the last time I tried to purposely spam tp moves as fast as possible, or made half the effort to put up a ja the moment it fell off. I've done entire events forgetting to even turn on velocity shot, or being on the wrong macro bar...

We're at this point were the damn game is so piss easy we don't even need to bother changing gear anymore. you can rock 119 full time and only be losing enough to not care...

As usual, i'm sure i'm the ONLY one that feels like this, and the zealots will pick apart the post, saying im full of ***. I get that being efficient is the name of the game. Can only give a ***for so long. Sometimes... whatever.
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-29 16:21:30  
Quetzalcoatl.Valli said: »
I was sitting there thinking about more or less what lim said. Are we really at this point were everything is zealotry still?

This isn't 2005 fighting over fluffy anymore. There's no challenge, we're in our 30s ffs. Will we ever grow up and get past the slightly less dps is unusable phase, I mean really.

Yeah war is little bit behind, so what. It's no more behind than anything else if you aren't try-harding. I know this will piss people off but do you guys honestly put this much effort into ***anymore, honestly.

I can't even remember the last time I tried to purposely spam tp moves as fast as possible, or made half the effort to put up a ja the moment it fell off. I've done entire events forgetting to even turn on velocity shot, or being on the wrong macro bar...

We're at this point were the damn game is so piss easy we don't even need to bother changing gear anymore. you can rock 119 full time and only be losing enough to not care...

As usual, i'm sure i'm the ONLY one that feels like this, and the zealots will pick apart the post, saying im full of ***. I get that being efficient is the name of the game. Can only give a ***for so long. Sometimes... whatever.
Eh, I actually feel this way myself.

It's nice and all to try to increase DPS output, but people need to realize, the majority of players play this game to chill from real life, and hang out with friends they'd never have a chance to meet otherwise.

As they say, losing is part of what makes winning so awesome.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Valli
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By Quetzalcoatl.Valli 2015-01-29 16:27:12  
Well, I mean I don't like losing fights... that's always irritating, but if you take 4 SAM vs 4 WAR on any hardmode fight, you aren't suddenly going to lose because you took wars instead of sams. You could do it just the same with 4 whm/nins it'd just take longer.

30 minutes is a realllllly long time to kill 1 mob. if you kill it in 5 or 25, it doesn't really matter, it takes people 20 minutes to gather up for it anyway, so you aren't losing anything.

Maybe I just see it that way now because I really don't feel like playing anymore, not enough to really keep me interested, my inner zealot got bored.
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 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2015-01-29 20:37:47  
Quetzalcoatl.Valli said: »
I was sitting there thinking about more or less what lim said. Are we really at this point were everything is zealotry still?

This isn't 2005 fighting over fluffy anymore. There's no challenge, we're in our 30s ffs. Will we ever grow up and get past the slightly less dps is unusable phase, I mean really. PET jobs, need legitimate boosts. 2handed non-fudo could use a SMALL boost. 2handed white damage is terrible.

Yeah war is little bit behind, so what. It's no more behind than anything else if you aren't try-harding. I know this will piss people off but do you guys honestly put this much effort into ***anymore, honestly.

I can't even remember the last time I tried to purposely spam tp moves as fast as possible, or made half the effort to put up a ja the moment it fell off. I've done entire events forgetting to even turn on velocity shot, or being on the wrong macro bar...

We're at this point were the damn game is so piss easy we don't even need to bother changing gear anymore. you can rock 119 full time and only be losing enough to not care...

As usual, i'm sure i'm the ONLY one that feels like this, and the zealots will pick apart the post, saying im full of ***. I get that being efficient is the name of the game. Can only give a ***for so long. Sometimes... whatever.

what do you expect. there's instant gratification people on the official forums advocating for things to be easier. SE has shown that they will change things based on what people advocate for in the official forums. I suggest people who want things to not be so easy go over there and have their say.
 Sylph.Safiyyah
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-01-30 00:43:15  
By reading this thread, I have learned that Rudra's spam on thief is skill-based. Very intriguing.
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2015-01-30 04:48:00  
Verda said: »
Nothing requires skill anymore. Jaded disposition has deemed it so. No offense but if I took the opinion of all posters by now I'd think that a monkey on a typewriter could play this game as long as you gave him a macro set and sparks gear.

It's only cause of the sheer amount of automation we have available to us now. Spellcast revolutionized how anyone played the game, Gearswap took it even further. Combine it with natural power creep and suddenly knowledgeable people can optimize every action, they spread that info around and now mostly everyone can optimize. So now you have the top 5~10% of the game running extremely optimized automation that enables them to do insane feats while SE adjusts the difficulty to target the lower 90~95% of the population. It's created such a wide band that the game merely feels "easy". After all "difficulty" in FFXI is ultimately about dice rolls and if you can get enough +1's on your stats to give you an outrageous statistical advantage over the enemy.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2015-01-30 05:56:54  
You don't need a whole hell of a lot of gearswapping to kill unity NMs with single 3-way skillchains. Last night I joined a pickup (met through /u) for some Terrigan bird kills. Eventually the group wore down to BRD, THF, THF, and WHM. Evisceration -> Rudra's -> Rudra's, respectively, still one-shotted it. You don't even need to change gear at all for that. Just start in your WS gear and stay there.


So I'd argue that it's not purely because we can change gear quickly. The game is easy because the game is easy.
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 Ragnarok.Fasaga
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By Ragnarok.Fasaga 2015-01-30 06:24:02  
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
You don't need a whole hell of a lot of gearswapping to kill unity NMs with single 3-way skillchains. Last night I joined a pickup (met through /u) for some Terrigan bird kills. Eventually the group wore down to BRD, THF, THF, and WHM. Evisceration -> Rudra's -> Rudra's, respectively, still one-shotted it. You don't even need to change gear at all for that. Just start in your WS gear and stay there.


So I'd argue that it's not purely because we can change gear quickly. The game is easy because the game is easy.

While I wouldn't say the game is hard. I would say it offers no incentive to do it's "harder" content. PUGs never shouts for kamhir/marjami delve, it's always morimar/yorcia. Obviously, because they take less time & coordination and offer essentially the same rewards. Same thing with high level incursion. iLvl 140 is available for top tier players to do, but there is no point in doing it when the rewards don't scale up with the difficulty. I'd argue that the game is easy because the hard stuff is avoided.
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By FaeQueenCory 2015-01-30 07:14:53  
I can see your point with Incursion. (Because let's face it, doing stupid high Incursion is only satisfying your Epenis.)

But I would disagree about Marjami. That's like... Delve1 level easy Delve2 zone.

I would also put forth, that in the history of FF... SE has never made a "hard" game/boss/NM.
"Harder" for SE, time and again has just meant "give it more HP"... Which doesn't make a boss harder... It just makes it take longer.
And Delve is a good example of this, because when it was 18man content, it was "hard". All that HP... Everyone had to be on the ball.
Now that it's 6man+... 6ppl can breeze through all the zones (barring Foret cause MM can sink a run) with little effort.

One of the reasons why I like XI is that, unlike the others, there is sometimes more to a boss than just HP...
Though they are few and far between....
It's still nice to see it.
Though the "harder=HP" mentality is in full swing too.
 Sylph.Ticu
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By Sylph.Ticu 2015-01-30 07:19:09  
Wow, how this thread has taken weird mutations. Starts about warriors, quickly turns into about thfs, then takes a quick dive into depression, and now sits on how we've outgrown the difficulty of the game.

I'll be here all day to watch this unfold.
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 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2015-01-30 07:59:15  
FaeQueenCory said: »
I would also put forth, that in the history of FF... SE has never made a "hard" game/boss/NM.

AV and PW at 75 cap says hi.
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By Pantafernando 2015-01-30 08:01:49  
Wiegraf at Lionel Castle in FFTactics.

And it was a dangerous fight. You could save your progress right before the fight, and if you went unprepared, it was basically true game over, as you couldnt just leave that castle to relevel up or regear. If you were uncapable to beat that stage, you would never do it in that saved file.
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By Pantafernando 2015-01-30 08:04:31  
Pantafernando said: »
Wiegraf at Lionel Castle in FFTactics.

And it was a dangerous fight. You could save your progress right before the fight, and if you went unprepared, it was basically true game over, as you couldnt just leave that castle to relevel up or regear. If you were uncapable to beat that stage, you would never do it in that saved file.

And in same game, the extra dungeons when you play the psp version with another player. There were some intense fights like against all zodiacs at once and against all holy/dark knights.
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2015-01-30 08:43:03  
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
You don't need a whole hell of a lot of gearswapping to kill unity NMs with single 3-way skillchains. Last night I joined a pickup (met through /u) for some Terrigan bird kills. Eventually the group wore down to BRD, THF, THF, and WHM. Evisceration -> Rudra's -> Rudra's, respectively, still one-shotted it. You don't even need to change gear at all for that. Just start in your WS gear and stay there.


So I'd argue that it's not purely because we can change gear quickly. The game is easy because the game is easy.

Dude it's f*cking unity, those things have almost no HP. Incursion 128+ MB or any of the Delve MB's are real NM's with real HP. Unity is stupid easy for the most part aimed at casual players (I hope to hell people aren't thinking of that as real content....).
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2015-01-30 09:26:58  
Quote:
I would also put forth, that in the history of FF... SE has never made a "hard" game/boss/NM.

Velius as mentioned, Seymour Flux, and uh
 Sylph.Limlight
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By Sylph.Limlight 2015-01-30 10:38:15  
ff9 , ozma

***made me rage for so long, was legit the first boss in a ff game that I had to go online and look up info about.
 Lye
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By Lye 2015-01-30 10:51:40  
Perhaps some have forgotten the fact that AV, intended to push players beyond even dev standards, became a joke among the larger gaming community for being an unbeatable boss.

This article stands out in memory:

This was PW:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.68303-18-Hour-Final-Fantasy-XI-Boss-Induces-Puking

If it's challenge you want it's probably wise to invest in a new game. When the going got tough in XI, the blame went to the devs.
 Lye
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By Lye 2015-01-30 10:58:40  
Which is funny because now, in FF14, to down the most difficult bosses from scratch, 18 hours of progression would be a reasonable estimate.

Granted, that's 18 hours of dying over and over to rehearse the dance that is t13 or t6,t7/t8/t9 (savage).

It's just not 18 hours straight unless you want a world first, in which case your efforts are lauded by devs.
 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-01-30 15:50:10  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
You don't need a whole hell of a lot of gearswapping to kill unity NMs with single 3-way skillchains. Last night I joined a pickup (met through /u) for some Terrigan bird kills. Eventually the group wore down to BRD, THF, THF, and WHM. Evisceration -> Rudra's -> Rudra's, respectively, still one-shotted it. You don't even need to change gear at all for that. Just start in your WS gear and stay there.


So I'd argue that it's not purely because we can change gear quickly. The game is easy because the game is easy.

Dude it's f*cking unity, those things have almost no HP. Incursion 128+ MB or any of the Delve MB's are real NM's with real HP. Unity is stupid easy for the most part aimed at casual players (I hope to hell people aren't thinking of that as real content....).
SE seems to think it's real content, it's the only content we've got since what, Incursion? Avatars I guess? Saying what is and isn't content is dumb in itself because everyone does different things. Many people still measure real content as Delve/Delve 2 and I haven't set foot in one of those zones in a good four or five months. Unity is stupid easy and yet it is probably the content people do the most at the moment because it's the newest and they haven't capped out on rewards yet, saying it doesn't matter because it's easy is silly.
 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2015-01-30 15:58:03  
Asura.Failaras said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
You don't need a whole hell of a lot of gearswapping to kill unity NMs with single 3-way skillchains. Last night I joined a pickup (met through /u) for some Terrigan bird kills. Eventually the group wore down to BRD, THF, THF, and WHM. Evisceration -> Rudra's -> Rudra's, respectively, still one-shotted it. You don't even need to change gear at all for that. Just start in your WS gear and stay there.


So I'd argue that it's not purely because we can change gear quickly. The game is easy because the game is easy.

Dude it's f*cking unity, those things have almost no HP. Incursion 128+ MB or any of the Delve MB's are real NM's with real HP. Unity is stupid easy for the most part aimed at casual players (I hope to hell people aren't thinking of that as real content....).
SE seems to think it's real content, it's the only content we've got since what, Incursion? Avatars I guess? Saying what is and isn't content is dumb in itself because everyone does different things. Many people still measure real content as Delve/Delve 2 and I haven't set foot in one of those zones in a good four or five months. Unity is stupid easy and yet it is probably the content people do the most at the moment because it's the newest and they haven't capped out on rewards yet, saying it doesn't matter because it's easy is silly.

he is probably saying it doesn't matter because they are not practical content. they are over in a very very short amount of time. the NM dies very fast. you get the one or two items they drop, the upgrade items are easy to get, and people sell them for fairly cheap if you don't want to do the runs to get them all yourself. after that, why go again? there is no incentive unless to help a buddy out.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2015-01-30 15:59:00  
Pantafernando said: »
Wiegraf at Lionel Castle in FFTactics. And it was a dangerous fight. You could save your progress right before the fight, and if you went unprepared, it was basically true game over, as you couldnt just leave that castle to relevel up or regear. If you were uncapable to beat that stage, you would never do it in that saved file.

You have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. You used this as an example of a hard fight in fft? As a person who has played this game to death, I can honestly say this shouldn't have even been mentioned. That game you literally had no limits on levelling up prior to storyline battles, and the fights never scaled to your level. That game was piss-poor easy.
 Quetzalcoatl.Valli
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By Quetzalcoatl.Valli 2015-01-30 17:52:43  
http://www.insanedifficulty.com/board/index.php?app=ccs

THIS.... is *** HARD. It's a player made mod of FFT. STORY MODE enemies will ALWAYS be higher level than you. Shops have LIMITED items. The entire game has been altered... no more blade grasp, for instance.

I literally cannot beat the 3rd stage, it's impossible for my style of play.

Knights will ALWAYS break your gear, there is no more missing. I get my *** STOMPED because if you level too high, then mobs use end game gear, that you cannot buy or steal. And you get RAILED.
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