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Place Your Midterm Election Bets.
By fonewear 2014-11-07 08:25:51
Hurricanes have a clear liberal bias.
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-07 08:29:57
So as this little debate simmers back and forth (this section seems as dead as the rest of the site -- I wonder what happened), I have a thought that I'd love to see answered. I am dubious it will be answered, mind you.
I wrote way too many words, so spoiler tag to make it easier to disregard.
I'm one of those filthy liberals who has been dissatisfied with our President for half a decade. But as I've stepped back and looked at why, I realize I'm engaging in fallacy. While it is certainly true that Obama has not be a particularly competent legislator (though the PotUS isn't technically a legislator, anyhow), his very existence has been the crux of Republican political campaigning. It's not that he's done anything especially bad (except ACA which is such a glorious clusterfuck that I'm 100% certain the Republicans actually hoped it would pass -- more on that shortly), but nor has he been able to accomplish much good.
That's also being somewhat unfair. A President can't magic a solution to the jobs problem that the Republican party systematically created over the past 20 years, regardless of whether that President is D or R, yet somehow people blame Obama for poor job recovery. And a lot of the little victories he has had have been brushed under the rug since it doesn't make for interesting headlines to see DOMA slowly dismantled.
But the big thing is that Republicans said, "We're going to obstinately stop anything from happening until we get this guy out of office." It's been a 6 year filibuster. Even when the Democrats had control of Congress, Obama's naive attempts to play nice resulted in very little happening as he pandered to people who were instructed by very savvy political scientists to be mules (in virtually every sense of the word). It's not a new tactic, but this Presidency seems to have experienced the worst instance of it.
But most people appear to be blind to it, myself included. It's easier with a single blame figure and the monolith that is the US President works so much better than pointing at some unknown spin doctor in RNC HQ. I talk to people who lean conservative and what I've noticed is that, in addition to having delusions that their party actually serves their needs (a delusion they share with their liberal neighbors), they think that all the world's ills can be laid at the feet of Democrats. This is verifiably and objectively false, but with the current spin control ensuring that nothing happens (Mitch McConnell even agrees this is what's been happening) while a Democrat is in the White House, it's not too hard to twist people's perceptions. Republican strategy has been to focus on things that are irrelevant, unsolvable, or diametrically opposed to the opposition in order to, what, relive the glory days when we saw habeas corpus illegally suspended and the financial industry was free to *** over the entire planet in a way that makes Bernie Madoff seem small potatoes?
Anyways, I'm being needlessly verbose as usual. My question is why anyone trusts the Republican party when they've unapologetically been doing nothing useful for anyone over the past 6 years? This has gone above and beyond the usual "To hell with the voters" attitude of modern politicians of all parties. How many financial crises have been deliberately orchestrated by the RNC? And yet people still want to blame the economy on our top military commander and chief representative to foreign powers?
I'd love to jump on the liberal bandwagon with everyone screaming that the world's going to burn. And it probably will, given how unrepentantly evil the RNC has become (note: evil is when you treat people as things, and in this case, as things to be fleeced and tossed aside). Is there anyone seriously willing to argue that every person shouldn't have unrestricted access to healthcare?
Actually, on this site, I guarantee there is, since the kooks here are happy to suggest that we murder the poor so long as they aren't forced to use those precise words. You know where some of the biggest welfare cheats are? Living in poverty in red counties across the nation, voting Republican while they cook meth and cheat on their taxes. Just sayin', if you wanna watch the welfare cheats die, you alleged red-state country boys are going lose family, friends, and neighbors.
But, yeah, ACA was such a colossal failure and I've had people continuously claim that Republicans had no part in it. You know, except for demanding all the worst parts be included and having written most of the basic structure themselves 20 years ago. It's the perfect false flag: appear to oppose something that you've helped design to explode on impact and reap the benefits of brainless public backlash.
I really don't see this playing out as well as the Republicans hope it will, though. They need to manufacture another catastrophic attack on US soil to get the kind of unlimited power they're dreaming about and I'm not the sort of person to suggest they'll try that. Not yet, anyways. Political discourse is getting bad enough that I won't be surprised if we have political terrorism in our own country about 20 years from now.
You peaked my interest at "filthy liberal" then lost it at "jobs problem that the Republican party systematically created over the past 20 years". Seriously, they just can't get over the fact that a policy so opposed to their ideology worked so well.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-11-07 08:35:12
So as this little debate simmers back and forth (this section seems as dead as the rest of the site -- I wonder what happened), I have a thought that I'd love to see answered. I am dubious it will be answered, mind you.
I wrote way too many words, so spoiler tag to make it easier to disregard.
I'm one of those filthy liberals who has been dissatisfied with our President for half a decade. But as I've stepped back and looked at why, I realize I'm engaging in fallacy. While it is certainly true that Obama has not be a particularly competent legislator (though the PotUS isn't technically a legislator, anyhow), his very existence has been the crux of Republican political campaigning. It's not that he's done anything especially bad (except ACA which is such a glorious clusterfuck that I'm 100% certain the Republicans actually hoped it would pass -- more on that shortly), but nor has he been able to accomplish much good.
That's also being somewhat unfair. A President can't magic a solution to the jobs problem that the Republican party systematically created over the past 20 years, regardless of whether that President is D or R, yet somehow people blame Obama for poor job recovery. And a lot of the little victories he has had have been brushed under the rug since it doesn't make for interesting headlines to see DOMA slowly dismantled.
But the big thing is that Republicans said, "We're going to obstinately stop anything from happening until we get this guy out of office." It's been a 6 year filibuster. Even when the Democrats had control of Congress, Obama's naive attempts to play nice resulted in very little happening as he pandered to people who were instructed by very savvy political scientists to be mules (in virtually every sense of the word). It's not a new tactic, but this Presidency seems to have experienced the worst instance of it.
But most people appear to be blind to it, myself included. It's easier with a single blame figure and the monolith that is the US President works so much better than pointing at some unknown spin doctor in RNC HQ. I talk to people who lean conservative and what I've noticed is that, in addition to having delusions that their party actually serves their needs (a delusion they share with their liberal neighbors), they think that all the world's ills can be laid at the feet of Democrats. This is verifiably and objectively false, but with the current spin control ensuring that nothing happens (Mitch McConnell even agrees this is what's been happening) while a Democrat is in the White House, it's not too hard to twist people's perceptions. Republican strategy has been to focus on things that are irrelevant, unsolvable, or diametrically opposed to the opposition in order to, what, relive the glory days when we saw habeas corpus illegally suspended and the financial industry was free to *** over the entire planet in a way that makes Bernie Madoff seem small potatoes?
Anyways, I'm being needlessly verbose as usual. My question is why anyone trusts the Republican party when they've unapologetically been doing nothing useful for anyone over the past 6 years? This has gone above and beyond the usual "To hell with the voters" attitude of modern politicians of all parties. How many financial crises have been deliberately orchestrated by the RNC? And yet people still want to blame the economy on our top military commander and chief representative to foreign powers?
I'd love to jump on the liberal bandwagon with everyone screaming that the world's going to burn. And it probably will, given how unrepentantly evil the RNC has become (note: evil is when you treat people as things, and in this case, as things to be fleeced and tossed aside). Is there anyone seriously willing to argue that every person shouldn't have unrestricted access to healthcare?
Actually, on this site, I guarantee there is, since the kooks here are happy to suggest that we murder the poor so long as they aren't forced to use those precise words. You know where some of the biggest welfare cheats are? Living in poverty in red counties across the nation, voting Republican while they cook meth and cheat on their taxes. Just sayin', if you wanna watch the welfare cheats die, you alleged red-state country boys are going lose family, friends, and neighbors.
But, yeah, ACA was such a colossal failure and I've had people continuously claim that Republicans had no part in it. You know, except for demanding all the worst parts be included and having written most of the basic structure themselves 20 years ago. It's the perfect false flag: appear to oppose something that you've helped design to explode on impact and reap the benefits of brainless public backlash.
I really don't see this playing out as well as the Republicans hope it will, though. They need to manufacture another catastrophic attack on US soil to get the kind of unlimited power they're dreaming about and I'm not the sort of person to suggest they'll try that. Not yet, anyways. Political discourse is getting bad enough that I won't be surprised if we have political terrorism in our own country about 20 years from now.
You peaked my interest at "filthy liberal" then lost it at "jobs problem that the Republican party systematically created over the past 20 years". Seriously, they just can't get over the fact that a policy so opposed to their ideology worked so well. Well, they will always fall back to the 2008 financial meltdown, but fail to realize that, under GOP policies, including the meltdown, job/technological growth far exceeded that of any democrat/liberal policies, even if the financial meltdown never existed for them in that scenario.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-11-07 08:53:41
When you can't blame yourself for losing, blame the weather
Quote: In a recent study, 35% of undecided voters said that inclement weather conditions would have a "moderate to significant" impact on whether they made it to the polls on Election Day. Experts say that weather can swing elections by suppressing or boosting turnout in pivotal states.
Take the infamous Florida 2000 general election for example. Heavy rainfall in the Pensacola area kept many Democratic voters at home. In fact, some still believe if it had not rained that day, Democrat Al Gore would have won 2,000 more votes, which would have given him the state of Florida, and the 2000 election.
Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-11-07 08:59:42
Its funny how that link totally dehumanizes republican voters as if they aren't effected by the rain and that only democrat votes should count. It's that kind of extreme viewpoint that cause's us moderates to pause.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-07 09:06:00
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-11-07 09:06:16
Not that I'm entirely clear on what the heck "liberalism" is supposed to be
In this particular instance we are talking about the "It takes a village to raise a child" "You didn't build that" "corporations don't create jobs" progressive liberalism in america.
That the individuals of our society are too stupid and too weak to make decisions governing their own lives so they must be provided everything spoon fed like babies.
let's take birth control which suddenly everyone needs but is too HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to acquire of their own accord...
I straddle these two worlds... I live in a small township where we pretty much govern ourselves. And I work in the city where idiotic bastions of liberal bureaucracy exist like "the department of graffiti" which you never even know exist until you suddenly have to deal with one.
so if a kid paints graffiti in the township everyone would check their kids fingers to see which ones had paint on them and then march them over to paint the entire structure they defiled.
But in the city parents cant be bothered to raise their own children or force them to own up to their responsibilities, and the police are far too busy.... so we have to set up a special task force that finds the owner of the building the graffiti is on and goes after THEM, filing a legal injunction to file a lean on the property to force the property owner to clean up the graffiti themselves?
NO!!!
They already have a solution! special paint trucks and crews that will paint over the graffiti.... WELL... why didn't they just paint it over in the first place you ask? BECAUSE FIRST you have to fill out all the documents releasing the city of any liability for over-spray and inaccurate color matching THEN you have to pay them and schedule a time they can come out...
Ok so some kids paints a poorly drawn something on my business, I or one of my nosey neighbors contact #311 (city information) and report it, eventually ina couple weeks they report it to the department of graffiti who after a few more weeks sends over an inspector (in a city car of course) who looks at the graffiti and then goes back to his office to have his secretary get ahold of the city legal department to file the legal paperwork to generate a letter to the building owner who now has to stop whatever he was doing to ANSWER THE LETTER FROM THE CITY, fill out the paperwork and pay the fine to have the city remove the graffiti and then 4-6 weeks later a truck shows up and paints over the graffiti........
That weekend... the kid comes back... and puts his stupid tag back up on the exact same building and the whole process repeats.
This is liberalism. Let's just assume the young "artist" is never going to be caught (police and parents are far too busy) and even if he was caught we next assume that neither he nor his guardians have the money to buy the paint and supplies to cover over his artwork and even if they did they wouldn't pay it because they would rather the kid did jail time and even if they could and would pay, the city, if the city, made the kid paint the building and he got hurt they would be responsible for the kid and then the building owner could also sue the city for allowing underage kids to get hurt on their property and not properly matching the paint...
So...Just like the paint covering the graffiti, we never FIX THE PROBLEM we just paint over top of it. we keep putting down layers and layers and layers and layers and layers of paint and bureaucracy and new rules and laws and regulations and secretaries and inspectors and city workers and telephone systems and computers and networks and buildings and vehicles and insurance and legal paperwork and motions and filings and leans and taxes and rules and laws and more secretaries and pensions and benefits and part time workers and unions and healthcare and sick days and subcontractora and paint suppliers that first have to conform to the cities policies on minority owned business and contribute to the mayor's re-election campaign to get the contract to supply the paint...
and then the weekend comes and all the city machinery falls quiet and the inspectors get their suits dry cleaned and the secretaries get their hair done and the lawyers all hire prostitutes and if you listen real close you hear the noise..... of the little *** ball in the paint can makes when it gets shaken up.
By fonewear 2014-11-07 09:11:45
It takes a village to make Hillary look human. I've met a few liberals in real life I always felt like taking a shower after talking to them.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-07 09:12:42
And that's just on the local level, graduate to the state and then the federal and the nonsense is just baffling. The true hypocrisy that slays me is that liberals would never put up with this *** (aka walmart) from a private corporation, they'd instantly find another competitor to throw their money at and then chide everyone else who didn't follow in lockstep as not being as enlightened as they are, but that's only after they went to great lengths to make sure the company in their sights was legally hindered and punished for daring to offend their sensibilities.
But point out that you have no other alternative in government and it's "sit down, shut up, and pay".
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By fonewear 2014-11-07 09:14:08
They don't have a sense of humor everything is offensive or racist sexist etc.
They claim to be open to new ideas but in reality they just want people to agree with them.
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Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-11-07 09:34:04
Not that I'm entirely clear on what the heck "liberalism" is supposed to be
In this particular instance we are talking about the "It takes a village to raise a child" "You didn't build that" "corporations don't create jobs" progressive liberalism in america.
That the individuals of our society are too stupid and too weak to make decisions governing their own lives so they must be provided everything spoon fed like babies.
let's take birth control which suddenly everyone needs but is too HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to acquire of their own accord...
I straddle these two worlds... I live in a small township where we pretty much govern ourselves. And I work in the city where idiotic bastions of liberal bureaucracy exist like "the department of graffiti" which you never even know exist until you suddenly have to deal with one.
so if a kid paints graffiti in the township everyone would check their kids fingers to see which ones had paint on them and then march them over to paint the entire structure they defiled.
But in the city parents cant be bothered to raise their own children or force them to own up to their responsibilities, and the police are far too busy.... so we have to set up a special task force that finds the owner of the building the graffiti is on and goes after THEM, filing a legal injunction to file a lean on the property to force the property owner to clean up the graffiti themselves?
NO!!!
They already have a solution! special paint trucks and crews that will paint over the graffiti.... WELL... why didn't they just paint it over in the first place you ask? BECAUSE FIRST you have to fill out all the documents releasing the city of any liability for over-spray and inaccurate color matching THEN you have to pay them and schedule a time they can come out...
Ok so some kids paints a poorly drawn something on my business, I or one of my nosey neighbors contact #311 (city information) and report it, eventually ina couple weeks they report it to the department of graffiti who after a few more weeks sends over an inspector (in a city car of course) who looks at the graffiti and then goes back to his office to have his secretary get ahold of the city legal department to file the legal paperwork to generate a letter to the building owner who now has to stop whatever he was doing to ANSWER THE LETTER FROM THE CITY, fill out the paperwork and pay the fine to have the city remove the graffiti and then 4-6 weeks later a truck shows up and paints over the graffiti........
That weekend... the kid comes back... and puts his stupid tag back up on the exact same building and the whole process repeats.
This is liberalism. Let's just assume the young "artist" is never going to be caught (police and parents are far too busy) and even if he was caught we next assume that neither he nor his guardians have the money to buy the paint and supplies to cover over his artwork and even if they did they wouldn't pay it because they would rather the kid did jail time and even if they could and would pay, the city, if the city, made the kid paint the building and he got hurt they would be responsible for the kid and then the building owner could also sue the city for allowing underage kids to get hurt on their property and not properly matching the paint...
So...Just like the paint covering the graffiti, we never FIX THE PROBLEM we just paint over top of it. we keep putting down layers and layers and layers and layers and layers of paint and bureaucracy and new rules and laws and regulations and secretaries and inspectors and city workers and telephone systems and computers and networks and buildings and vehicles and insurance and legal paperwork and motions and filings and leans and taxes and rules and laws and more secretaries and pensions and benefits and part time workers and unions and healthcare and sick days and subcontractora and paint suppliers that first have to conform to the cities policies on minority owned business and contribute to the mayor's re-election campaign to get the contract to supply the paint...
and then the weekend comes and all the city machinery falls quiet and the inspectors get their suits dry cleaned and the secretaries get their hair done and the lawyers all hire prostitutes and if you listen real close you hear the noise..... of the little *** ball in the paint can makes when it gets shaken up.
That's not liberlism... that's just government. bureaucracy at it's finest...
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-11-07 09:39:26
And that's just on the local level, graduate to the state and then the federal and the nonsense is just baffling. The true hypocrisy that slays me is that liberals would never put up with this *** (aka walmart) from a private corporation, they'd instantly find another competitor to throw their money at and then chide everyone else who didn't follow in lockstep as not being as enlightened as they are, but that's only after they went to great lengths to make sure the company in their sights was legally hindered and punished for daring to offend their sensibilities.
But point out that you have no other alternative in government and it's "sit down, shut up, and pay". what?
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-11-07 09:41:35
Hurricanes have a clear liberal bias. I thought god was just smiting all the liberal evil...
By fonewear 2014-11-07 09:56:02
Hurricanes have a clear liberal bias. I thought god was just smiting all the liberal evil...
Just making fun of the liberals that act like GWB summoned hurricane Katrina to kill poor black people.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-11-07 10:01:15
But point out that you have no other alternative in government and it's "sit down, shut up, and pay".
You wish all you had to do is pay.... Go ask Catherine Engelbrecht (true the vote) about it.... she has the entire federal machine so far up her *** she produces a roll of red tape every time she coughs
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Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-11-07 10:10:50
I was just making fun of the conservatives that thought god was smiting the liberal debauchery (homosexuals, etc.) ya know cuz noah and water and such...
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-11-07 10:17:48
I was just making fun of the conservatives that thought god was smiting the liberal debauchery (homosexuals, etc.) ya know cuz noah and water and such...
LOL don't even get me started on the religious right... holy ***if only we could kill all those people and get away with it.....
there is nothing worse than having your opinion agreed upon by a guy who has a handful of poisonous snakes in one hand and a jar of poison he is sipping out of in the other...
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-11-07 10:20:00
I was just making fun of the conservatives that thought god was smiting the liberal debauchery (homosexuals, etc.) ya know cuz noah and water and such...
LOL don't even get me started on the religious right... holy ***if only we could kill all those people and get away with it.....
there is nothing worse than having your opinion agreed upon by a guy who has a handful of poisonous snakes in one hand and a jar of poison he is sipping out of in the other... While we are at it, can we get rid of the religious left?
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-11-07 10:22:45
My plan... poison all the patchouli.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-11-07 10:22:48
I was just making fun of the conservatives that thought god was smiting the liberal debauchery (homosexuals, etc.) ya know cuz noah and water and such...
/stare
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Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-11-07 10:24:09
My plan... poison all the patchouli. But the hoppy...
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-11-07 10:25:14
Odin.DonnieofDonnies said: »I was just making fun of the conservatives that thought god was smiting the liberal debauchery (homosexuals, etc.) ya know cuz noah and water and such...
/stare
Back read DonnieofDonnies
you're out of your *** element!
Edit: we haven't even left the page it started on yet you lazy ***
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-11-07 10:25:27
My plan... poison all the patchouli. But the hoppy... We will cry for about 15 minutes, then forget about him and move on.
He at least deserves 15 minutes of tears.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-11-07 10:41:19
My plan... poison all the patchouli. But the hoppy... We will cry for about 15 minutes, then forget about him and move on.
He at least deserves 15 minutes of tears. You don't know who the hoppy is do you?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-11-07 10:51:46
My plan... poison all the patchouli. But the hoppy... We will cry for about 15 minutes, then forget about him and move on.
He at least deserves 15 minutes of tears. You don't know who the hoppy is do you? Excuse me, she at least deserves 15 minutes of tears.
By fonewear 2014-11-07 11:25:26
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By Odin.Stormcroww 2014-11-07 11:41:37
Is this thread really 21 pages. Just let her die she already gone. Just let her rest in peace.
By fonewear 2014-11-07 11:42:32
But she is so likable ! I want to chat with her !
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-11-07 12:11:27
Is this thread really 21 pages. Just let her die she already gone. Just let her rest in peace.
In twenty one pages there were only two legitimate bets placed....
I have 52 gop senators and chaos has 53
and it's at 52 right now but three are still undecided....
and the dems just pulled all their money out of LA so it looks bad for Landrieu....
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-07 12:12:24
So 53? I remember saying 53 or 54. So what do I win?
I'm betting either the Republicans gain massive seats in the senate or are one seat short of the majority.
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