Trolling Dimidiation Vs Resolution

言語: JP EN DE FR
2010-06-21
New Items
users online
フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Rune Fencer » Trolling Dimidiation vs Resolution
Trolling Dimidiation vs Resolution
 Lakshmi.Abaddon
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: terry
Posts: 54
By Lakshmi.Abaddon 2014-09-28 03:52:06  
The roof is on fire.



Dimidiation

2 Hit WS No Crit Mod

80% DEX Mod

100tp 2.25 fTP

200tp 4.50 fTP

300tp 6.75 fTP

Light/Frag

VS

5 Hit WS No Crit Mod

73-85% STR Mod

100tp 0.71875 fTP

200tp 1.50 fTP

300tp 2.25 fTP

Is Dimidiation just Cross Reaper but with DEX mod?

Could dimidiation scale to beat Resolution?

Why wont SE give Run a crit WS?
 Lakshmi.Saevel
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-09-28 04:52:28  
Dim is a two hit so add the fTP from the second hit. Also Reso's fTP adds across all hits, so the increase from moonshade and ele belt / gorget effect all hits. So at 100TP you get a 1.11 fTP per hit on reso for a total of 5.55 fTP . At 300 TP it would be 12.25 fTP . Dim would be 4.01 fTP at 100 with moonshade and both ele items, at 300 it would be 7.95 fTP at 300, 7.75 without gorget / belt as there are better options.

So even with Reso's -15% attack penalty, Dim rarely gets anywhere close to it. You have to be fighting something like Kurma with harden shell up to get to the point where Dim starts to win.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 905
By FaeQueenCory 2014-09-28 08:06:45  
Not to mention how while RUN might be DEF challenged by limited to "light armors"... There is a plethora of +atk gear from that armor bracket that it has access to to "make up for" the downside of Resolution.

And one of, if not the absolute best in slot, back pieces pulls double duty for Reso: the STR WKR cape.
+10atk +8STR

Of course Reso being better than Dimidiation is dependant on what gear you have (super well geared Dim vs ***geared Reso), if you gear swap or not (DEX is naturally higher on "light armors" while STR you'll have to look for), and if you're 1/5 or 5/5 Reso (at a perfect 1000 Dimidiation will do sliiiiiightly more damage than Resolution -on the scale of 50~100- at 5/5 but, with less merits in Reso the more and more Dimidiation will pull ahead.)
 Siren.Sieha
Offline
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
user: Sieha1
Posts: 503
By Siren.Sieha 2014-09-28 08:55:46  
FaeQueenCory said: »
Not to mention how while RUN might be DEF challenged by limited to "light armors"... There is a plethora of +atk gear from that armor bracket that it has access to to "make up for" the downside of Resolution.

And one of, if not the absolute best in slot, back pieces pulls double duty for Reso: the STR WKR cape.
+10atk +8STR

Of course Reso being better than Dimidiation is dependant on what gear you have (super well geared Dim vs ***geared Reso), if you gear swap or not (DEX is naturally higher on "light armors" while STR you'll have to look for), and if you're 1/5 or 5/5 Reso (at a perfect 1000 Dimidiation will do sliiiiiightly more damage than Resolution -on the scale of 50~100- at 5/5 but, with less merits in Reso the more and more Dimidiation will pull ahead.)

Eyeballing or did you actually use the spread sheet for that. Also I dont understand how you could have a well geared dimidiation and not have good gear for resolution, unless you specifically avoided the gear in favor of a sub par ws.
 Sylph.Jeanpaul
MSPaint Champion
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: JeanPaul
Posts: 2623
By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2014-09-28 15:39:34  
Missing the first hit of Dimidiation is depressing. I pretty much leave Dimidiation for skillchain purposes only since Resolution is just so reliable.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 2
By declure 2014-10-04 18:49:19  
I go Dimidiation. Been using them alongside each other for a while now and by themselves, it's pretty neck and neck. But Dimidiation shines when you start thinking more like a true RUN and greatsword user. Dimidiation skillchains really well - a lot of Light chains for the trusts I use (Noillurie, WHM's). Start off with a Lux Gambit, knock off a Light skillchain, and Magic Burst it with a Lux Swipe/Lunge combo for some major damage. Add items sets and any -Def/MDef you can think of (ex. Naja's Peacebreaker), and you'll be doing a 5 figure combo for sure. Not that combo's like that aren't possible with Resolution, but Dimidiation just seems more flexible and more consistent with the Light-based ones so you can plan for bonus damage. I see a lot of RUN/WAR because ppl want to build tp and dbl/trpl. atk and be true DD, but I think the flourishes of RUN/DNC are just as effective building tp and you can leave tank gear up most of the time and actually be the tank RUN is supposed to be when not performing the combo above. That said, I'm not dismissing RUN/WAR, obviously it's the better choice when you've got a good support party going. I only mention it to dismiss the idea that anything else can't DD. Use Dimidiation like I mentioned and you can DD effectively anything.
Offline
Posts: 181
By Lyncath 2014-10-05 07:02:16  
Dimidiation is devastating when skillchained with itself via Sekkanoki and even moreso when you've put a Lux Gambit on the target and burst a Lux Lunge.

Generally though, especially in high buff situations, Resolution will pull ahead if you're 5/5 in it.
Offline
Posts: 905
By FaeQueenCory 2014-10-05 08:00:41  
Siren.Sieha said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
Not to mention how while RUN might be DEF challenged by limited to "light armors"... There is a plethora of +atk gear from that armor bracket that it has access to to "make up for" the downside of Resolution.

And one of, if not the absolute best in slot, back pieces pulls double duty for Reso: the STR WKR cape.
+10atk +8STR

Of course Reso being better than Dimidiation is dependant on what gear you have (super well geared Dim vs ***geared Reso), if you gear swap or not (DEX is naturally higher on "light armors" while STR you'll have to look for), and if you're 1/5 or 5/5 Reso (at a perfect 1000 Dimidiation will do sliiiiiightly more damage than Resolution -on the scale of 50~100- at 5/5 but, with less merits in Reso the more and more Dimidiation will pull ahead.)

Eyeballing or did you actually use the spread sheet for that. Also I dont understand how you could have a well geared dimidiation and not have good gear for resolution, unless you specifically avoided the gear in favor of a sub par ws.
What I meant by that is that because Dimidiation is DEX, light armors favor DEX to STR. Meaning that if you tard it up in full Espial set because "it's 117" then yeah, Dimidiation will beat out Resolution... But if you actually gear for them, Reso will come out ahead. (People also need to remember to use BOTH belt and gorget on Reso... fTP is replicated y'all.)
<for reals, I had someone try telling me that their RUN was better geared than mine... Because they were "full 117". They didn't even change for WSs.>
[+]
 Cerberus.Conagh
Offline
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: onagh
Posts: 3187
By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-10-05 09:22:13  
FaeQueenCory said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
Not to mention how while RUN might be DEF challenged by limited to "light armors"... There is a plethora of +atk gear from that armor bracket that it has access to to "make up for" the downside of Resolution.

And one of, if not the absolute best in slot, back pieces pulls double duty for Reso: the STR WKR cape.
+10atk +8STR

Of course Reso being better than Dimidiation is dependant on what gear you have (super well geared Dim vs ***geared Reso), if you gear swap or not (DEX is naturally higher on "light armors" while STR you'll have to look for), and if you're 1/5 or 5/5 Reso (at a perfect 1000 Dimidiation will do sliiiiiightly more damage than Resolution -on the scale of 50~100- at 5/5 but, with less merits in Reso the more and more Dimidiation will pull ahead.)

Eyeballing or did you actually use the spread sheet for that. Also I dont understand how you could have a well geared dimidiation and not have good gear for resolution, unless you specifically avoided the gear in favor of a sub par ws.
What I meant by that is that because Dimidiation is DEX, light armors favor DEX to STR. Meaning that if you tard it up in full Espial set because "it's 117" then yeah, Dimidiation will beat out Resolution... But if you actually gear for them, Reso will come out ahead. (People also need to remember to use BOTH belt and gorget on Reso... fTP is replicated y'all.)
<for reals, I had someone try telling me that their RUN was better geared than mine... Because they were "full 117". They didn't even change for WSs.>

I suggest a Heavy usage of /blacklist function for your server then.
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [109 days between previous and next post]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5618
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2015-01-22 11:39:32  
This discussion is assuming 5/5 Resolution merits, or just flat out Reso wins majority of the time? Getting mixed numbers recently, primarily because I haven't capped reso, but not completely sold on the go-to ws as of yet. Been using Dimi mainly because of the SC properties on itself.
 Sylph.Jeanpaul
MSPaint Champion
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: JeanPaul
Posts: 2623
By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2015-01-22 12:05:57  
Since Resolution has an attack penalty, there are going to be times when it'll do worse. If you're getting crazy attack bonuses or fighting something weak though, Resolution should be winning. Also, if you happen to have Epeolatry and aftermath, Resolution is the only WS that'll truly benefit from a multihit.

Side note, were fTP values ever figured out for Spinning Slash and Ground Strike following the WS update?
[+]
Offline
Posts: 13786
By Bloodrose 2015-01-22 12:08:03  
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Since Resolution has an attack penalty, there are going to be times when it'll do worse. If you're getting crazy attack bonuses or fighting something weak though, Resolution should be winning. Also, if you happen to have Epeolatry and aftermath, Resolution is the only WS that'll truly benefit from a multihit.

Side note, were fTP values ever figured out for Spinning Slash and Ground Strike following the WS update?
I haven't seen anything that had updated values.

Of course, the whole argument is that 5/5 reso > Dimidiation.

However, due to player variables and merits, if you have anything less than 3/5 reso, Dimidiation should be on top.
[+]
 Shiva.Onorgul
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Onorgul
Posts: 3608
By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-22 12:13:19  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Also Reso's fTP adds across all hits, so the increase from moonshade and ele belt / gorget effect all hits. So at 100TP you get a 1.11 fTP per hit on reso for a total of 5.55 fTP
I know I'm asking a question about something said several months ago, but since the thread has been bumped...

I thought the fTP carrying across all hits with the 100% fTP being 0.71875 would imply that a simple 5-hit Resolution would be 4.14375 fTP (including fTP buffing equipment)?
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Zerowone
Posts: 6924
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2015-01-22 12:14:49  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
This discussion is assuming 5/5 Resolution merits, or just flat out Reso wins majority of the time? Getting mixed numbers recently, primarily because I haven't capped reso, but not completely sold on the go-to ws as of yet. Been using Dimi mainly because of the SC properties on itself.

Depends on the content lvl and target, accuracy has a bit to do with numbers the two put out.
[+]
 Sylph.Jeanpaul
MSPaint Champion
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: JeanPaul
Posts: 2623
By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2015-01-22 12:27:05  
Not sure where you're getting that number from, but Moonshade brings a 1000% TP Resolution from 0.71875 to 0.9140625, and Belt/Gorget add 0.1 fTP per hit. This brings it to 1.1140625 per hit, x5 is being 5.5703125 for the whole WS. What gives Dimidiation a chance is not so much the modifiers on either WS, but rather the 15% attack penalty on Resolution. The SC options are certainly better on Dimidiation, too. I really wish that they didn't make all our weaponskills Fragmentation.
[+]
Offline
サーバ: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
user: Creaucent
Posts: 751
By Creaucent Alazrin 2015-01-22 12:32:02  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Also Reso's fTP adds across all hits, so the increase from moonshade and ele belt / gorget effect all hits. So at 100TP you get a 1.11 fTP per hit on reso for a total of 5.55 fTP
I know I'm asking a question about something said several months ago, but since the thread has been bumped...

I thought the fTP carrying across all hits with the 100% fTP being 0.71875 would imply that a simple 5-hit Resolution would be 4.14375 fTP (including fTP buffing equipment)?

That's the base amount you need to add on the amount you get from ele belt and gorget and the extra ftp you get from the tp bonus on moonshine earring. The ftp isn't fixed from 100TP to then suddenly increase at 200TP it scales between the two amounts.
[+]
 Shiva.Onorgul
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Onorgul
Posts: 3608
By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-22 12:32:26  
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Not sure where you're getting that number from, but Moonshade brings a 1000% TP Resolution from 0.71875 to 0.9140625, and Belt/Gorget add 0.1 fTP per hit. This brings it to 1.1140625 per hit, x5 is being 5.5703125 for the whole WS
I had forgotten what the specific effect of Moonshade Earring was, so I got my math wrong there. I thought that Belts and Gorgets didn't stack, though?

Edit: Seems I was wrong, so confusion cleared up.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5618
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2015-01-22 12:32:33  
Bloodrose said: »
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Since Resolution has an attack penalty, there are going to be times when it'll do worse. If you're getting crazy attack bonuses or fighting something weak though, Resolution should be winning. Also, if you happen to have Epeolatry and aftermath, Resolution is the only WS that'll truly benefit from a multihit. Side note, were fTP values ever figured out for Spinning Slash and Ground Strike following the WS update?
I haven't seen anything that had updated values. Of course, the whole argument is that 5/5 reso > Dimidiation. However, due to player variables and merits, if you have anything less than 3/5 reso, Dimidiation should be on top.

thx
 Shiva.Ladyofhonor
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 74
By Shiva.Ladyofhonor 2015-01-31 00:13:15  
So far from my experience, which is a few KI fights and then some CP parties on bats in Woh Gates is that Dimidiation is the more reliable ws. I get similar enough numbers between the two, with Dim mostly 1900-2400 and Reso 1400-2800ish. Almost every time I use Reso it doesn't impress me over my Dim's, and since my other main jobs are THF (Rudra's DEX) and BLU (CDC DEX) I think I'll just stick to Dim. Maybe if I get into a well-buffed situation I'll be able to utilize my 5/5 Resolution merits, but so far it hasn't been a very impressive showing for that ws.
 Sylph.Jeanpaul
MSPaint Champion
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: JeanPaul
Posts: 2623
By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2015-01-31 01:59:20  
Those ranges sound right considering that Dimidiation doesn't suffer from an attack penalty, but doesn't have much to gain from bonus hits. Resolution will do better if your attack is high/you proc a multi-attack/your accuracy is struggling to the point where missing the one good hit in Dimidiation is a regular thing.
 Shiva.Ladyofhonor
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 74
By Shiva.Ladyofhonor 2015-01-31 02:05:25  
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Those ranges sound right considering that Dimidiation doesn't suffer from an attack penalty, but doesn't have much to gain from bonus hits. Resolution will do better if your attack is high/you proc a multi-attack/your accuracy is struggling to the point where missing the one good hit in Dimidiation is a regular thing.

I'm not sure about the last one, isn't there a somewhat large +acc effect to the first hit of a WS? So if acc is low you're more likely to blow a missed reso of 1-2 hits as often as miss the first hit of Dimi. Though I'll admit those missed first hits of Dim I get are rather sad.

There was a time I was using indi-fury with my GEObox and Reso's were 4500+ or so, that was nice, but this was also on EP/DC mobs, not VT's and such.

On an unrelated note, anyone ever spam shockwave? I like to use AOE ws for reive farming, and shockwave I really need to build a better set for, if I could get it to average 500+ to all targets that'd be great...
 Lakshmi.Saevel
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2015-02-02 10:05:02  
Shiva.Ladyofhonor said: »
I'm not sure about the last one, isn't there a somewhat large +acc effect to the first hit of a WS? So if acc is low you're more likely to blow a missed reso of 1-2 hits as often as miss the first hit of Dimi. Though I'll admit those missed first hits of Dim I get are rather sad

Yes the first hit of a WS gets a ~200 accuracy bonus. It was so high that we required blind potions to test it. Each additional hit use's your standard accuracy, so if your hurting for acc a WS like Spinning Slash / Dimidiation would be better then Reso. Especially since if your hurting for acc your probably also hurting for atk. I use shockwave to sleep groups of mobs and can get 700~1000 or so on it, it's not a bad WS.
[+]
 Shiva.Ladyofhonor
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 74
By Shiva.Ladyofhonor 2015-02-03 16:23:44  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Shiva.Ladyofhonor said: »
I'm not sure about the last one, isn't there a somewhat large +acc effect to the first hit of a WS? So if acc is low you're more likely to blow a missed reso of 1-2 hits as often as miss the first hit of Dimi. Though I'll admit those missed first hits of Dim I get are rather sad

Yes the first hit of a WS gets a ~200 accuracy bonus. It was so high that we required blind potions to test it. Each additional hit use's your standard accuracy, so if your hurting for acc a WS like Spinning Slash / Dimidiation would be better then Reso. Especially since if your hurting for acc your probably also hurting for atk. I use shockwave to sleep groups of mobs and can get 700~1000 or so on it, it's not a bad WS.

I'm not as good at it as I like, but I spam shockwave for reives and seem to do a better job AOE farming bats by mass pulling them and hitting battuta, with shockwave/foil spam to keep hate off my healer. Not as safe or quick as I'd like, and never get to swap over to my GEO to AOE nuke as plan, but I'm working on it.
 Cerberus.Kaeviathan
Offline
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Cerberus.Kaeviathan 2015-02-03 16:51:44  
So, to sum it all Up

Use Dimidiation under the following conditions:
  • For light -> light SC.

  • When engaged against either an evasive/highly defensive opponent.


Use Resolution when previous condition aren't applied (In other words, use Resolution for everything else).
[+]
 Shiva.Ladyofhonor
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 74
By Shiva.Ladyofhonor 2015-02-07 07:16:25  
I have done some more CP parties, going RUN/DRK, being able to use indi-fury on my GEO dualbox, eating pizza for acc/att, so 1600+ attack on my RUN. And Dimidiation still outperforms Resolution time and again. Sure, Reso can spike higher (in theory, haven't seen it happen), but as a regular WS Dim seems much more consistant and can go just as high. I was often in the 4-4.5k range, with some 6-7k spikes.

Did Dimidiation get a fTP buff we're not calculating in this thread or something?
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [242 days between previous and next post]
 Leviathan.Ocronyn
Offline
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: declure
Posts: 1
By Leviathan.Ocronyn 2015-10-07 01:04:06  
After recent RoV updates, here's my favorite group so far for some Dimidiation mayhem: Lion II (will almost always close a Light skillchain off Dimidiation), King of Hearts (will MB with Firaga IV), Robel-Akbel (Will MB and is very good at keeping MP up), and from there you can either keep stacking mages for MB damage or put in some support to heal, control hate, etc. and of course you can Gambit/Lunge the entire combo for your own MB damage. Aside from farming mobs, I've found it one of the best ways to also farm reives.
[+]
Log in to post.