Thief DW Ear Set VS Brutal/Suppa

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Thief DW Ear Set VS Brutal/Suppa
 Asura.Marysvillain
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By Asura.Marysvillain 2014-07-12 15:30:15  
I've seen many thieves wearing the dual wield earring set(Heartseeker) which grants 7% dual wield over the Suppa/Brutal combo of 5% DW/5% DA. I was just curious if this is the best option for thief earrings atm? Under what circumstances should I be sacrificing 5% DA for 2%DW?
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By FaeQueenCory 2014-07-12 16:36:32  
It's really up to personal taste and opinion...
IMO, generally speaking, 2AGI, 5%DW, 5%DA, and store TP 1 will outperform either of the two delve earring pairs...
2% DW may even be hurting you if it's 2% over 80% delay reduction...
2% DA and 1 more store TP may look good on paper... But at the cost of -5% delay...
I don't find either of these two sets to be better.

Of course this is my own preference and is dependent on the rest of the gear I use, but generally speaking, suppabrutal combo should still perform better.
(You should dig up some old threads about it... I remember that it was a big fighting point back when delve first came out.)
 Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2014-07-12 16:53:11  
Keep 7% dw earrings on for solo/low buff situations
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 Asura.Karbuncle
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By Asura.Karbuncle 2014-07-12 17:08:22  
FaeQueenCory said: »
It's really up to personal taste and opinion...
IMO, generally speaking, 2AGI, 5%DW, 5%DA, and store TP 1 will outperform either of the two delve earring pairs...
2% DW may even be hurting you if it's 2% over 80% delay reduction...
2% DA and 1 more store TP may look good on paper... But at the cost of -5% delay...
I don't find either of these two sets to be better.

Of course this is my own preference and is dependent on the rest of the gear I use, but generally speaking, suppabrutal combo should still perform better.
(You should dig up some old threads about it... I remember that it was a big fighting point back when delve first came out.)

Not that I disagree, but removing the useless-for-tp stats, its really 5% Double Attack VS 2% Dual Wield, 2 STP, 8 Acc, 8 Atk.

That said If i recall correctly the earring set wins if you need Accuracy or are getting haste buffs.
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By Voren 2014-07-12 17:08:37  
FaeQueenCory said: »
2% DW may even be hurting you if it's 2% over 80% delay reduction

How will THF be able to reach delay reduction cap? I know NIN can, and I believe DNC can, or get really close, but THF.....how?

With that said, I'd go suppa/brutal if /war to add a 5% DA over having 2% extra DW.
 Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2014-07-12 17:19:15  
Voren said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
2% DW may even be hurting you if it's 2% over 80% delay reduction

How will THF be able to reach delay reduction cap? I know NIN can, and I believe DNC can, or get really close, but THF.....how?

With that said, I'd go suppa/brutal if /war to add a 5% DA over having 2% extra DW.

It's not really hard to hit delay cap with party buffs. Remember delay cap is the combination of DW and haste. So with capped gear haste and innate 25% DW from thf, it's not a big deal to hit the 80% delay reduction cap. Stick to 7% DW earrings when not receiving haste buffs, suppa/brutal if you are, and double attack earrings if you are at delay cap (haste 2, SV marches)
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By Voren 2014-07-12 17:27:54  
Ok, that I concede, forget that we're not speaking strictly one thing or the other. If solo it would pay to swap them out, so best bet would get both and be situational with it all.
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-07-12 18:24:08  
What about Trux/Brutal combos?
 Sylph.Jeanpaul
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2014-07-12 18:35:19  
Save yourself the inventory and just get whichever combo you can first and forget the other. The difference is pretty miniscule and the winning combo will alternate depending on your buffs and what you're fighting.

Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
What about Trux/Brutal combos?
This will win if you have capped attack speed, providing your accuracy is good enough.
 
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 Asura.Marysvillain
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By Asura.Marysvillain 2014-07-12 22:37:46  
thanks for all the input I appreciate it. I was also wondering, is there a certain amount of accuracy I should be aiming for then?
 
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 Sylph.Jeanpaul
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2014-07-13 12:34:46  
If you can break 900 on your gear/traits alone, then you should be ok to deal with most high level content. The most evasive things, however, you may have a hard time and will really want accuracy food or buffs, but that kinda applies to everyone so don't feel like you're not good enough.
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By lhova 2014-11-19 13:20:04  
Quick question does DW cap? In particular on fodder mobs like dynamis and salvage 2? Here is my gearset.

ItemSet 330766

I know that skadi +1 body is the best in low buffs on fodder but I have +5 DW on my Canny cape and with the rest of my gear I wasn't sure if the cape pushed Thaumas body over Skadi +1? Also for high level fodder (solo CP farming on thief) what body are peeps using? I got the Meso body from Incursion but that piece seems like a bad *** Acc TP piece for RUN and thats it. THanks.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-11-19 13:46:49  
Dual Wield does not have a specific cap outside of the overall delay reduction cap of 80%, however, if you are over the cap, additional dual wield will still continue to reduce your TP gain, even though it won't reduce your delay.

Like everything, it completely depends on your other buffs.
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By lhova 2014-11-19 13:50:09  
lhova said: »
Quick question does DW cap? In particular on fodder mobs like dynamis and salvage 2? Here is my gearset.

ItemSet 330766

I know that skadi +1 body is the best in low buffs on fodder but I have +5 DW on my Canny cape and with the rest of my gear I wasn't sure if the cape pushed Thaumas body over Skadi +1? Also for high level fodder (solo CP farming on thief) what body are peeps using? I got the Meso body from Incursion but that piece seems like a bad *** Acc TP piece for RUN and thats it. THanks.

Actually I may have answered my own question lol. If I use the forumula (200 + 200)*(1-.2)*(1-.26)*(1-.05)= 224.96 (assuming JA Haste samba and no haste spell) So I would be far from the maximum cap of 80 so I guess Skadi +1 is still best and I should try to stack as much DW as I can.
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By Cerberus.Maeldiar 2014-11-19 14:29:33  
Haverton ring go!
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2014-11-19 14:37:56  
lhova said: »
(solo CP farming on thief) what body are peeps using? I got the Meso body from Incursion but that piece seems like a bad *** Acc TP piece for RUN and thats it. THanks.
Question... why would you ever be solo CP farming on THF without buffs? Use trusts and you can cap magical haste (via Koru-Moru's Haste II, plus 2x Marches +0 from either BRD trust)?

With capped equipment and magical haste, THF only needs ONE of the following to cap total delay reduction:
1) Haste Samba (/DNC or trust), OR
2) DW+11% from gear

DW gear is really only needed for truly solo (non-Trust) activities, like farming Dyna or Salvage on THF/DNC. In that case, all the DW gear THF has access to is still good (i.e. you can't cap delay reduction even using the max available DW gear).

My DW (pure solo) set (11/19/2014):
ItemSet 330769
*I don't have DW Canny Cape, I'd use it if I did
*Shetal Stone would be a minor improvement over Patentia Sash

My solo set with trust buffs:
ItemSet 330771
* Oneiros Ring assuming you have MP100+ (i.e. merits), if not Rajas or whatever works fine
* I tend to just use the DA ear set, but as mentioned above Brutal/Trux is slightly better if you're capped acc
* Obviously, add acc gear as needed for higher ilevel stuff: Canny Cape and Honed Tathlum are particularly nice swaps, maybe Ej Necklace.

For body choice on high ilevel stuff where you might feel the lack of defense on Thaumas, there are plenty of reasonable 119 choices. I tend to go with Qaaxo B, PDT-3% and TA+2% is nice. But Relic 119, AF119, Dread Jupon, Meko. Harness... all of these are fine (I'd put them all in similar tier in roughly that order).
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By lhova 2014-11-19 15:09:37  
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
lhova said: »
(solo CP farming on thief) what body are peeps using? I got the Meso body from Incursion but that piece seems like a bad *** Acc TP piece for RUN and thats it. THanks.
Question... why would you ever be solo CP farming on THF without buffs? Use trusts and you can cap magical haste (via Koru-Moru's Haste II, plus 2x Marches +0 from either BRD trust)?

With capped equipment and magical haste, THF only needs ONE of the following to cap total delay reduction:
1) Haste Samba (/DNC or trust), OR
2) DW+11% from gear

DW gear is really only needed for truly solo (non-Trust) activities, like farming Dyna or Salvage on THF/DNC. In that case, all the DW gear THF has access to is still good (i.e. you can't cap delay reduction even using the max available DW gear).

My DW (pure solo) set (11/19/2014):
ItemSet 330769
*I don't have DW Canny Cape, I'd use it if I did
*Shetal Stone would be a minor improvement over Patentia Sash

My solo set with trust buffs:
ItemSet 330771
* Oneiros Ring assuming you have MP100+ (i.e. merits), if not Rajas or whatever works fine
* I tend to just use the DA ear set, but as mentioned above Brutal/Trux is slightly better if you're capped acc
* Obviously, add acc gear as needed for higher ilevel stuff: Canny Cape and Honed Tathlum are particularly nice swaps, maybe Ej Necklace.

For body choice on high ilevel stuff where you might feel the lack of defense on Thaumas, there are plenty of reasonable 119 choices. I tend to go with Qaaxo B, PDT-3% and TA+2% is nice. But Relic 119, AF119, Dread Jupon, Meko. Harness... all of these are fine (I'd put them all in similar tier in roughly that order).

I understand and I mostly meant pure solo in dyna and salvage. Question, what aug are you using for the pants?
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By lhova 2014-11-19 15:13:08  
Cerberus.Maeldiar said: »
Haverton ring go!
I can't do it bro lol. I love thief but I love Sam more. I know that Ifrit +1 is better but I'm not dropping 40m for 2 rings so perhaps I will get the ring with the increased wsd lol.
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2014-11-19 15:44:47  
lhova said: »
I understand and I mostly meant pure solo in dyna and salvage. Question, what aug are you using for the pants?

STR+8/Haste+2%.

STR as a good all around choice for any job that uses the legs.

Haste augment actually comes in handy in the above DW-focused set too, where you actually need the extra augment to hit 26% and cap in non-Ionis areas. For most jobs, not much of an issue any more... Skadi+1 body loses a pretty important slot where most ilevel gear has ~4% or so haste though. (FWIW, Uk'uxkaj Cap is another very nice option where you can take advantage of haste augment this way)

(note that even if you aren't taking advantage of the haste augment, Quiahuiz are still awesome solo legs. I'll only switch em out if I need a high level Acc option: AF/Relic/Ighwa/Qaaxo all solid for that)
lhova said: »
Cerberus.Maeldiar said: »
Haverton ring go!
I can't do it bro lol. I love thief but I love Sam more. I know that Ifrit +1 is better but I'm not dropping 40m for 2 rings so perhaps I will get the ring with the increased wsd lol.

Haha yeah, that's probably the right call. I wouldn't have picked up Haverton if not for my primary purpose of RNG (best R.Acc and only Snapshot ring... OK!), DW was a bonus to me.
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By lhova 2014-11-20 08:56:00  
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
lhova said: »
I understand and I mostly meant pure solo in dyna and salvage. Question, what aug are you using for the pants?

STR+8/Haste+2%.

STR as a good all around choice for any job that uses the legs.

Haste augment actually comes in handy in the above DW-focused set too, where you actually need the extra augment to hit 26% and cap in non-Ionis areas. For most jobs, not much of an issue any more... Skadi+1 body loses a pretty important slot where most ilevel gear has ~4% or so haste though. (FWIW, Uk'uxkaj Cap is another very nice option where you can take advantage of haste augment this way)

(note that even if you aren't taking advantage of the haste augment, Quiahuiz are still awesome solo legs. I'll only switch em out if I need a high level Acc option: AF/Relic/Ighwa/Qaaxo all solid for that)
lhova said: »
Cerberus.Maeldiar said: »
Haverton ring go!
I can't do it bro lol. I love thief but I love Sam more. I know that Ifrit +1 is better but I'm not dropping 40m for 2 rings so perhaps I will get the ring with the increased wsd lol.

Haha yeah, that's probably the right call. I wouldn't have picked up Haverton if not for my primary purpose of RNG (best R.Acc and only Snapshot ring... OK!), DW was a bonus to me.


Damn now i'm sad lol. I haven't used my Anni ranger in ages.. Maybe I should consider Haverton...
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By Pantafernando 2014-11-20 09:52:57  
lhova said: »
Cerberus.Maeldiar said: »
Haverton ring go!
I can't do it bro lol. I love thief but I love Sam more. I know that Ifrit +1 is better but I'm not dropping 40m for 2 rings so perhaps I will get the ring with the increased wsd lol.

Your argument isnt very solid.

If you already stating ifrit+1 is better than adoulin, but as well, you wont pay 40m for a minimal advantage, so accepting not using an optimal, why not considering ifrit nq?

I dont know the parse, but suposing nq ring is worse than adoulin ring, does the difference in performance high enough so you can give up an unique ring to get one that will just gives a small boost, that most of time, none will ever notice?

Im not trying to convice what ring you should use, just pointing an option.
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By lhova 2014-11-20 10:48:19  
Pantafernando said: »
lhova said: »
Cerberus.Maeldiar said: »
Haverton ring go!
I can't do it bro lol. I love thief but I love Sam more. I know that Ifrit +1 is better but I'm not dropping 40m for 2 rings so perhaps I will get the ring with the increased wsd lol.

Your argument isnt very solid.

If you already stating ifrit+1 is better than adoulin, but as well, you wont pay 40m for a minimal advantage, so accepting not using an optimal, why not considering ifrit nq?

I dont know the parse, but suposing nq ring is worse than adoulin ring, does the difference in performance high enough so you can give up an unique ring to get one that will just gives a small boost, that most of time, none will ever notice?

Im not trying to convice what ring you should use, just pointing an option.

Actually I currently use 2 nq ifrits now. I was just saying that maybe I will spend 20m for 1 hq ifrit and then get the wsd ring but I can't see myself buying 2 hq's. Idk. Like I said in a prior post, I have been neglecting my Anni Rng and I could use Haverton for Rng and Thf. Probably even Nin too if I ever bring it to 99. Haven't even talked about my Ukon War though... Meh all these jobs and only 1 choice kinda sucks SE....
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2014-11-20 15:02:03  
I use lots of ranged and DW jobs (RNG COR THF DNC NIN BLU), and no mages for some of the excellent mage rings... so Haverton made sense for me.

But really, the DW is pretty minor because it's not hard to cap delay reduction on the DW jobs just using Trust buffs. I don't think I'd pick a reward ring based on non-buffed solo w/out Trust scenarios (Dyna/Salvage farming, basically).

I do get to use it in those situations, and that's nice. But if it wasn't for the much more useful ranged stats I'd have gone for a WS ring.
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