New Arch Angel Fights

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New Arch Angel Fights
 Seraph.Jacaut
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By Seraph.Jacaut 2014-01-08 13:00:30  
Phoenix.Josiahfk said: »
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Bismarck.Angelsfate said: »
Seraph.Jacaut said: »
We went to MR on easy and 3 people had wrong KI so pld/war thf/nin(me) rng/??? decided to trio. i asked a friend about charm and he said 35-50%. it popped off @ 32%. flee'd and tossed up perfect dodge, which MR larceny'd) died
why didnt you larceny it back nerd
MR will instantly larceny any SP used near her. If you stole PD from her, she'd steal it right back. And can do so multiple times.
Damn.

It's too bad we don't have any truly detrimental or expensive 2 hours we can force her to steal to weaken her in any way hmmm
I had already used larceny to steal her perfect Dodge. Which she did not steal back. So maybe she doesn't in that instance? Be fun to have monk pop hundred fists let her larceny it then me larceny it back. Maybe I'll try that tonight. If anything ochain will be fine if she takes it again.
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 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-01-08 17:03:15  
Seraph.Jacaut said: »
I had already used larceny to steal her perfect Dodge. Which she did not steal back. So maybe she doesn't in that instance? Be fun to have monk pop hundred fists let her larceny it then me larceny it back. Maybe I'll try that tonight. If anything ochain will be fine if she takes it again.

She'll only larceny you if you have an old SP ability up and she's facing you.
 Seraph.Jacaut
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By Seraph.Jacaut 2014-01-08 17:25:49  
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Seraph.Jacaut said: »
I had already used larceny to steal her perfect Dodge. Which she did not steal back. So maybe she doesn't in that instance? Be fun to have monk pop hundred fists let her larceny it then me larceny it back. Maybe I'll try that tonight. If anything ochain will be fine if she takes it again.

She'll only larceny you if you have an old SP ability up and she's facing you.
Ah okay thanks. So I could do it to get a few hits in but soon as I took hate she's turn and steal it?
 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-01-08 20:28:31  
Yes.

So, if your want your MNK's 100fist, you need to have the mnk 100fist and have hate, have MR steal it, then steal it from MR without getting hate. Once you get hate, MR will steal it back immediately.
 Sylph.Peldin
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By Sylph.Peldin 2014-01-09 14:29:53  
I'm curious about a few of the fights for VD.

1) EV - how do you deal with damage from Arrogance Incarnate. Even on Normal this move has hit our paladin for 1.8k. You take 2 PLDs and split the damage?

2) MR - pet starts building resistance to sleep. Do you just have PLD tank it so you can kill it and re-sleep the next one?

3) Which abilities is Scherzo be useful for? I assume MR's Cloudsplitter if your PLD doesn't have aegis? TT's Meteor? Does Scherzo work against Arrogance Incarnate?
 Bismarck.Llewelyn
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By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2014-01-09 14:41:14  
Sylph.Peldin said: »
Does Scherzo work against Arrogance Incarnate?
Yes. For EV RNG strategy we replace the COR with a SMN and stack EA and Scherzo just to be safe. I use Zantetsuken immediately after Benediction to help with damage a bit. Does about 8.5k. During the rest of the fight I'll spam Night Terror and keep Crimson Howl/Ecliptic Growl on the RNGs.
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By Sylph.Peldin 2014-01-09 14:50:04  
Ah ok. Yeah we probably don't need COR for EV. Do you keep Titan's Favor up as well for Dominion Slash?
 Bismarck.Llewelyn
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By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2014-01-09 14:52:56  
I don't keep any Avatar's Favors up.
 Bismarck.Jnc
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By Bismarck.Jnc 2014-01-09 15:50:24  
For VD DM, we bring 3 PLDs, one holds the everything except TT, and whatever the RNGs are on, while two are on the current target.

For EV we only use Scherzo and PLD stays in DT- full time, never has too much trouble staying alive, WHMs just need to be paying attention. (Elvaan PLD, with roughly 2k HP, Ochain; Only one PLD on it, with the other staying back, in case he dies.)

For MR, we leave the pet on the PLD holding all the AAs, and kill MR last (Not including TT). After MR dies, we kill the pet before TT.

(Probably don't need 3 PLDs, but it's much safer)

Sylph.Peldin said: »
Arch Angel HM:
- Uses Mijin Gakure once at low % - high aoe damage
- Uses Brazen Rush - nasty auto attacks
- Casts Utsusemi: San - several shadows
- Uses Circle Blade - aoe
- Uses CDC under 25% - 3-hit, single target
- Uses Cross Reaver - conal damage + stun
- Has another weaponskill that looks like Spirits Within, but it's called Arrogance Incarnate. AoE damage that splits between targets. I think it's unresistable?
- Uses Mighty Strikes at beginning + randomly during fight

Correct me if I'm wrong, but pretty sure HM doesn't use Arrogance Incarnate.
 Bismarck.Llewelyn
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By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2014-01-09 15:58:09  
It doesn't.
 Sylph.Peldin
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By Sylph.Peldin 2014-01-13 08:30:18  
Corrected some stuff, added some stuff, and made some other random edits to the OP. I also bolded some things that need verification.

Personally, I'm still dubious about Scherzo vs Arrogance Incarnate. I've had Scherzo on my PLD tank and watched him still take 1.8k damage. Also, the move seems to do more damage when EV gets lower. I want to say around 25-30% hp or so, it's like PLD goes from taking 900-1000ish to almost double that. Getting hit for 1.8k when PLD has about 2k total hp? Scherzo should definitely be kicking in. Or maybe it is kicking in, but the damage is being ramped up more than I thought and EA is also necessary to stack with it. I dunno. I'm at work so I can't do the exact math (not sure what skill my gear puts me at), but my Scherzo should be around 45% damage reduction. Given a PLD at 2000 hp, any single hit over 1500 should trigger Scherzo. And it would have to hit for almost 4k in order to KO with Scherzo on.

To anyone playing PLD, have you seen Scherzo and/or EA get taken off after Arrogance Incarnate was used? Or do you know other abilities that reduce it's damage?
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-01-13 08:35:26  
Does about 4k base. Some gear -> 3.6k. Scherzo -> 1.8k. As her HP drops, it'll slowly get reduced(on VD, i think it starts to drop at 50-60%.. there's an upper cap that it's hitting so it won't drop until HP is below a threshold). A PLD with 2k hp would stop gaining scherzo when effective damage hit 1450.. 1500 would be reduced to 750 but 1450 would stay as is so you see a spike there.

It probably can dispel earthen armor with dominion slash. Arrogance incarnate does not dispel anything, and dominion slash doesn't dispel songs, so scherzo is reliable. You just need a better PLD(more damage taken- gear and hp.. only gear that says 'damage taken' or 'breath damage taken' helps).
 Asura.Psylo
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By Asura.Psylo 2014-01-13 08:49:00  
Hello, need just advice for Taru fight, hard mode, what will do the best setup for a pretty easy win ?

was thinking about 4 RNG/NIN (food) BRD Heal ?
 Sylph.Peldin
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By Sylph.Peldin 2014-01-13 08:51:31  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
As her HP drops, it'll slowly get reduced
I tend to see the opposite of this. As her HP drops, it gets stronger. Friend of mine playing PLD reported that he never noticed Scherzo fall off, although he admits he wasn't really paying attention to it most of the time.

The first time I ever fought EV was on normal. I was playing BRD. I kept Scherzo + Minnes up at first and then swapped to Scherzo + Marches. Everything seemed to be pretty easy and then suddenly kaboom, PLD takes like 200ish dominion slash (phalanx was off) immediately followed by an Arrogance Incarnate for 1800ish. Looked through logs. Arrogance Incarnate had hit for between 900-1000 every time before that, then took that hit for 1.8k. Maybe Scherzo came off and I didn't see it? I guess that makes for a better explanation than saying damage suddenly doubled.
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By pchan 2014-01-13 08:53:17  
Remind me to punch the idiots claiming they use EA on the elvaan.
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By Spiraboo 2014-01-13 09:05:13  
Sylph.Peldin said: »
The first time I ever fought EV was on normal. I was playing BRD. I kept Scherzo + Minnes up at first and then swapped to Scherzo + Marches. Everything seemed to be pretty easy and then suddenly kaboom, PLD takes like 200ish dominion slash (phalanx was off) immediately followed by an Arrogance Incarnate for 1800ish. Looked through logs. Arrogance Incarnate had hit for between 900-1000 every time before that, then took that hit for 1.8k. Maybe Scherzo came off and I didn't see it? I guess that makes for a better explanation than saying damage suddenly doubled.

Bear in mind Scherzo does last for like 10+mins if you SV T/N-ed it. So it can very much have no effect when you re-sang depending when you do it, and resulting your other songs being out of sync. Having said that you seems like an educated enough brd to know this already.

Could it be that Dia3 was on your pld? ;3 though i guess dia3 doesn't lower def. enough to hit that extra 800 dmg..

pchan said: »
Remind me to punch the idiots claiming they use EA on the elvaan.

Hey, if it works for some people, it's a suggestion worth considering for people who have plds that are struggling to stay alive on EV o_x;
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By Spiraboo 2014-01-13 09:13:18  
Sylph.Peldin said: »
- Uses Meteor after something? Sleepga? need verification

Yes seems to always try to sleepga before a meteor.

Sylph.Peldin said: »
- Uses Perfect Dodge (more than once? need verification)
Never seen it do more than 1 perfect dodge.

Sylph.Peldin said: »
- Can use Invincible at random times (only once I think, need verification)
Never seen it do more than 1 invincible.

Sylph.Peldin said: »
Arch Angel GK:
Obvious to samurai players but might be useful for whms, Tachi Kasha - paralyze, Tachi Gekko - silence.
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By pchan 2014-01-13 10:35:43  
Spiraboo said: »
Hey, if it works for some people, it's a suggestion worth considering for people who have plds that are struggling to stay alive on EV o_x;
You are totally bringing in a SMN that get it's only useful move for the fight systematically dispelled. I can see it in an ally but otherwise you are better off having another tank in the aoe absorbing...
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By Shiva.Gib 2014-01-13 10:39:49  
Sylph.Peldin said: »
Ah ok. Yeah we probably don't need COR for EV. Do you keep Titan's Favor up as well for Dominion Slash?
Real SMNs never favor :P

Trade off just isn't worth it in 95% of situations
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By Odin.Ladyrikku 2014-01-13 11:03:50  
Not sure if this info help, but I won VD TT today and this is what I noticed during the fight.

TT uses meteor only during manafont.

Uses Spinning scythe and guillotine and spams Amon Dive which can be deadly for a melee if he uses guillotine after.

Will not move from the spot it teleports to/from unless its under blood weapon or the new drk 2hr (Seems to use it more frequently at lower hp)
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By Asura.Psylo 2014-01-13 12:07:15  
Odin.Ladyrikku said: »
Not sure if this info help, but I won VD TT today and this is what I noticed during the fight.

TT uses meteor only during manafont.

Uses Spinning scythe and guillotine and spams Amon Dive which can be deadly for a melee if he uses guillotine after.

Will not move from the spot it teleports to/from unless its under blood weapon or the new drk 2hr (Seems to use it more frequently at lower hp)
Could you tell us your setup ?
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By Odin.Ladyrikku 2014-01-13 13:13:36  
We did Mnk/Nin Mnk/Nin Mnk/Nin Pld/Nin Brd and Whm. TT's pretty rough and we barely won with 29min 56s on the timer.
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-01-13 13:18:27  
Odin.Ladyrikku said: »
We did Mnk/Nin Mnk/Nin Mnk/Nin Pld/Nin Brd and Whm. TT's pretty rough and we barely won with 29min 56s on the timer.


With the way TT's targeting mechanics work that just sounds like it was painful. Congrats though.
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By Phoenix.Suji 2014-01-13 13:26:12  
Shiva.Gib said: »
Sylph.Peldin said: »
Ah ok. Yeah we probably don't need COR for EV. Do you keep Titan's Favor up as well for Dominion Slash?
Real SMNs never favor :P

Trade off just isn't worth it in 95% of situations
This comment is misleading. You make it sound like Ramuh and Ifrit favors wouldn't lead to increased party DPS, but of course they would if they were fully charged in a melee-oriented setup. The issue is the high probability of having to switch avatars or having your avatar die, not that the favor itself is a bad trade-off.
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By pchan 2014-01-13 13:34:24  
Odin.Ladyrikku said: »
We did Mnk/Nin Mnk/Nin Mnk/Nin Pld/Nin Brd and Whm. TT's pretty rough and we barely won with 29min 56s on the timer.
why is there a pld ?
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By pchan 2014-01-13 14:52:45  
Successfully did HM, very hard, WHMx2 BRDx2 MNK/BLUx2, totally relevant to the thread.

MNKs are both fulltming (no gear swap during WS)

(Spharai afterglow 119 // verethragna afterglow 119) x x honed tathlum
lithelimb cap, twilight torque, heartseeker, steelflash
otronif, otronif, defending rng, patricius ring
mollusca mantle, BB, otronif, otronif

all otronif augmented with pdt/acc nearly perfectly

both WHM are average
both BRDs have GH+DDB 99+ one has carwenhan (SV march, minuetx2, madrigalx2, non sv'ed minnex4)

~15 minutes.
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 Asura.Echandra
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By Asura.Echandra 2014-01-13 14:55:56  
VD TT is probably the easiest, you just use his mechanics against him. Whenever he warps, you know he's going to open with a spell. Figure out who he has hate on, and that person just needs to stay away and not stand by the support.

Normally he kills people because they still run up to him, lose 1 shadow then they get guillotined or amon drive and die. Since Amon drive is also ranged, like Mistral axe, sometimes the amon drive will get launched at the person standing away, so their shadows take care of it, and the others can just smack away at him.

When he does the drk 2hours and comes after people, the 3 dds should just be in DT gear bounce him around. Since he normally uses Manafont around 50% our whm just used sacrosanctity for Meteor. Asylum helps you resist the sleepga or pop a poison around then to be ready for it. Eat the wimpy one, then everyone but the person with hate and our whm ran out of the arena and waited for this to wear, then went back to smashing him.

Killed with War/NIN, DRK/NIN, DRG/NIN WHM COR BRD. We finished the fight in about...15 minutes? We decided PLD was pointless since they'll never keep hate and really just work as surefire won't die because of Aegis...which doesn't matter if you just kill the damn AA.
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By pchan 2014-01-13 15:03:56  
I will try this one with 2 brds instead for 2x sv madrigals, it's especially easy to recast on him.
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