RUN In Salvage

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2010-06-21
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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Rune Fencer » RUN in Salvage
RUN in Salvage
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-04-03 11:00:29  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Please stop. 500 of your 618 posts are the same thing copy/pasted.

Well considering people still aren't listening nor have been able to refute it then I'll just keep posting the exact same information we've known for years now.

It's as though you expected your wish's and dreams to come true with this expansion.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-04-03 11:11:07  
I haven't said anything about tanking at all, just bored of your posts.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2013-04-03 11:31:18  
Why does Saevel derail every single thread he appears in? And why is he so angry all the time?
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 Fenrir.Yuriki
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By Fenrir.Yuriki 2013-04-03 11:43:27  
I think he is just a really good troll. He's getting us good!
 Fenrir.Calamity
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By Fenrir.Calamity 2013-04-03 17:10:41  
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: »
Quiznor said: »
Using a tank job as a frontline DD and expecting results is just stupid anyways,should just have gone WAR or DRK if you're gonna spam resolution
Seriously, this
You misunderstand. I didn't bring it expecting great dd results. I just wanted to see -how well- it did. I usually go on thf or drk, so I have a good range of dd output to gauge between. I admit I was disappointed, I expected it to be closer to drk output than thf output, but either way, I got my answer.
 Shiva.Paulu
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By Shiva.Paulu 2013-04-03 17:16:03  
Fenrir.Calamity said: »
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: »
Quiznor said: »
Using a tank job as a frontline DD and expecting results is just stupid anyways,should just have gone WAR or DRK if you're gonna spam resolution
Seriously, this
You misunderstand. I didn't bring it expecting great dd results. I just wanted to see -how well- it did. I usually go on thf or drk, so I have a good range of dd output to gauge between. I admit I was disappointed, I expected it to be closer to drk output than thf output, but either way, I got my answer.
"I'm fighting the good fight... for the sake of discovery"
Approved.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2013-04-03 17:24:07  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Why does Saevel derail every single thread he appears in? And why is he so angry all the time?
His avatar is a RDM and his account name includes the word "Paladin," even if it is misspelled.
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By darthmaull 2013-04-03 17:25:27  
It has gotten to the point I just skip whatever I see from Saevel. Please everyone else keep testing and post your experiences. I look forward to that info.

Is there a way to filter out or block certain people's posts? His posts really are not contributing at all.
 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2013-04-03 18:14:25  
Someone used logic to refute Saeval's "logic" that there is no tank, but apparently since we don't listen to him, we're wrong, and he's right, even though he hasn't given us exactly what he's asking for: Proof.

Hard evidence indicates that the original tank role was from Warrior, Paladin, Samurai, and oddly enough, Dragoon. It was quickly discovered that Dragoon could not tank at the time, since it had no heavy armor aside from it's AF and Relic, and Parry even at cap, was ridiculously low for a polearm. We replaced this with Ninja through Utsusemi, and Monk through High HP values and Counter potential, Thief through it's high evasion, as well as Dancer from the same high evasion, but also with Fan Dance.

Through the advent of Abyssea, Empyrean Armor/weapons, Voidwatch, and various drops, such as Mekira Meikogai and Ogier's sets, we've now added Dark Knight to the list, and reinstated Dragoon as potential tanks. Mitigating Damage from various subs and equipment has offered value on their potential tanking abilities. Survivability and reducing healing magic support from mages should go hand in hand.

Then we have the Damage output variable to consider when gaining enmity to stay ontop of the hate list, which can be done through sheer max damage, or you can add enmity to your actions with enmity gear.

What Saeval is not considering at this point, is what the players are doing to make tanking viable, or obsolete, and does nothing other than offer the "Derr terrk merr jerrb" rhetoric away. Using a party system, they will designate a player to be a "tank", or the person who is primary engager, takes teh least damage, and has considerable damage output.

Hence, tanks do exist, it's just up to the playerbase who tanks and on what jobs.
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 Asura.Arkanethered
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By Asura.Arkanethered 2013-04-03 18:33:35  
Oh look, another derailed RUN thread.
 Asura.Fondue
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By Asura.Fondue 2013-04-03 18:46:08  
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
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By Baniak 2013-04-03 19:08:47  
Fenrir.Calamity said: »
Just got through actually. It's depressingly underwhelming. Miles behind my drk in dps, and honestly it's comparible to a well geared thf. the attack defiency really hurts it bad. Especially when lacking ws gear and str. Once fully unlocked it does well. But for the other 95% of the run...

Still wanna try it once in bhaflau and once in silversea to see how the defenses do on dvergr's mad casting and cerb's acheron flame

That thing barely put a taru THF in my group to yellow HP with shellra V and barfira so Im not sure why would you want any special magic def abilities that RUN posses.

Dvergr's ( HQ one ) is another story but Solace+Sacrifice and ppl using holy water and there should be no problem and necessity to bring RUN or PLD.
 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2013-04-03 19:09:47  
That is probably one of the best insults I have ever seen, and quite funny, considering i was on point :p

Anyways, getting back to RUN in Salvage:

Bhalfau Remnants - RUN does not currently have native Dual Wield, so you would have to sub /nin or /dnc to have access to it. RUN Also suffers from a lack of high level/quality swords to use, aside from Sanus Ensis and Ephemeron currently (Please correct this if you see better swords), as well as a lack of attack. There is very little shortage on MND, and from what i've seen from possible gearsets, no shortage of STR to up the fSTR during Requiescat.

The advantage however, is in the high amount of DA/TA that RUN has access to, as well as the Rune Enchantment, and Lunge/Gambit abilities. Since Cerberus and Orthrus Seether are known elements, it'll be easy to keep a very high resistance to Gates of Hades and Archeron Flames through Barfire and Rune Enchantment.

Silver Sea Remnants: The advanage that RUN has in this zone is again, it's Rune Enchantments and MDB, One For All, as well as Vallation, Pflug, Valiance, and Liement. From what i've seen personally, the Dvergr and Bloodthirsty Dvergr seem to favor the Stone V/Stonega III and Thundaga III spells, but this is a personal experience, which may vary for others.

Arrapago Remnants and Zhayolm Remnants: This is the set of zones where RUN is mediocre at best, on the bosses. Although the Rune Enchantments are a nice boon to protect yourself from Khimaira and the Khrysokhimaira Prideleader's Stun, Terror, and Thunder-based damage, it just does not put up solid numbers.
The Rune Enchantments are a nice touch of damage to help whittle down Hydra's and the Enraged Hydra's HP through it's Pyrric Bulwark, but that's really about it.
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-04-03 19:12:43  
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
That is probably one of the best insults I have ever seen, and quite funny, considering i was on point :p

Honestly I wouldn't say you were on point with much of it, if any of that at all.
 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2013-04-03 19:19:37  
Well, iw as going by the origination of the job roles, and what players did to the tanking system - which is what was on point.

As it currently stands, RUN is really a support melee at this stage, with self enhancemeents, a few neat abilities, and some magic damage mitigation for itself, and for the party members in range.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2013-04-03 19:21:52  
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 Cerberus.Diabolique
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By Cerberus.Diabolique 2013-04-03 19:22:49  
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
and oddly enough, Dragoon.
This is the first time I have ever seen anyone say this.
Not a single thing about Drg was tank-like. War, Pld, Sam, yeah. Drg? Never.
Their HP Eva and Parry were pretty damn awful until that update last year.
And 2/3 of their signature abilities either lowered enmity or removed it all together.
 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2013-04-03 19:33:06  
You must be new here, considering Dragoon's abilites and effects have changed over the years since it was released.

Penta Thrust was HUGE for the sake of tanking, because of the massive TP return it gave before the nerfbat hit it, allowing them to WS, get 50 TP back immediately assuming all hits connected, then WS again shortly after.

Again, this was the original design of the job, before it was discovered that Dragoon couldn't tank a can of beans. It was supposed to be a "parry" tank due to it's high parry skill rating, long before Samurai even had Hasso or Seigan.

Again, i mentioned that it was discovered that IT COULD NOT effectively tank, and once SE nerfed the tp return on Penta Thrust, it was immediately and forever known as "loldrg"
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2013-04-03 19:35:04  
Are you talking about when multihit weaponskills returned tp on each hit? Are you kidding me? that ***got nerfed like less than 6 months into NA release. Get out.
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-04-03 19:44:25  
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
Well, iw as going by the origination of the job roles, and what players did to the tanking system - which is what was on point.

As it currently stands, RUN is really a support melee at this stage, with self enhancemeents, a few neat abilities, and some magic damage mitigation for itself, and for the party members in range.

It still wasn't on point if you ask me. You missed a lot of things, in addition to adding Drg as a tank when both high jump and super jump shed hate... I just don't know about that. But enough of the derailing >_<. I can't wait to get Run up high enough to try it in salvage.
 Fenrir.Calamity
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By Fenrir.Calamity 2013-04-03 19:52:17  
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
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 Lakshmi.Talmar
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By Lakshmi.Talmar 2013-04-03 21:04:45  
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Are you talking about when multihit weaponskills returned tp on each hit? Are you kidding me? that ***got nerfed like less than 6 months into NA release. Get out.


And this^^^ makes it irrelevant how?
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2013-04-03 21:21:46  
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-04-03 21:31:05  
since when was DRG supposed to be a parry tank? That was SAM, and it failed for obvious reasons. RUN is doing it a little better, but not by much. Inquartata is at least a moderately potent buff to parry rate, and I expect to see it increase further through merits tbh.
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 Lakshmi.Aelius
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By Lakshmi.Aelius 2013-04-03 23:10:38  
darthmaull said: »
Can we please get back to RUN info?

I second this. Carry on.
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-04-04 04:41:23  
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Are you talking about when multihit weaponskills returned tp on each hit? Are you kidding me? that ***got nerfed like less than 6 months into NA release. Get out.

It was around the entire JP cap 60 time, was quite fun to see back then. Wasn't that bad until SAM's got a hold of it, DRG had absolutely nothing on a Penta SAM.
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