RUN In Salvage

Has anyone brought RUN into salvage and how was it on RUN?

I run in salvage all the time.

Just got through actually. It's depressingly underwhelming. Miles behind my drk in dps, and honestly it's comparible to a well geared thf. the attack defiency really hurts it bad. Especially when lacking ws gear and str. Once fully unlocked it does well. But for the other 95% of the run...

Still wanna try it once in bhaflau and once in silversea to see how the defenses do on dvergr's mad casting and cerb's acheron flame

Thats not really surprising at all. Its not intended to take the slot of a heavy DD.

What was your sub? And no STR gear? huh? Ya mean for WS? It has a ton actually. It's obviously not like "phorcys" level of high STR, but it really has a LOT of good WS gears.

I think he meant it wasn't doing well while the gear was still locked.

oh i might have just misinterpreted that then. My bad.

Yeah. That's exactly what I meant. Was an arrapago run, so I was without body and str until the very end, and it was noticable. And I was /war keeping zerk up every chance I got. Still wasn't enough. Skipped last night's run, so we're gonna do silversea. Gonna try /sam this time and see if ws frequency makes a difference vs the extra attack.

/SAM wins if you have anyone doing haste on you. Hasso's 10% JA haste is amazing. Also ensure your support is putting Dia II onto any and all NM's you fight.

RUN/SAM should be very good vs the SSR2 boss. For Cerb I'd go /NIN and DW Swords with a Req build for the end. Cerb dies really REALLY fast if you can spam Req on him.

Using a tank job as a frontline DD and expecting results is just stupid anyways,should just have gone WAR or DRK if you're gonna spam resolution

Seriously, this

Clearing in 40 minutes or 50 matters little, might as well use a job you enjoy while you grindfest the content.

No such thing as "Tank Job", never was, at least not in FFXI.

"Tanking" involves generating as much enmity as possible which in turn involved dealing as much damage as possible. That's a DD.

Welcome to four ~ five years ago.

time to break out my rag toting pally >.> whut.

Lol I've actually tried that, worked better then people give it credit for. PLD wears the same DD gear as WAR and DRK just doesn't have an attack boosting JA or native JA haste. Go /WAR or /SAM and spam Reso, upon facing something dangerous switch to sword + board. That was before the update, haven't tried it since. I expect RUN to play similar, max damage TP set then fall back to turtle mode when damage starts becoming heavy. Must be careful cause your CE generation gets dramatically cut in turtle mode.

Only difference is instead of shield blocks you have parry and MDB / magic shields.

The fact is it doesnt get anywhere near as much native attack (so I hear) or attack gear as a proper DD job should be 2 giant signs.

Umm PLD has the exact same gear as WAR/DRK and from sub it can get either an attack boost or a form of JA haste but not both. That is actually the central issue plaguing the DD order right now. Only three 2H DD's can get both an attack boost and JA haste at the same time. Those are WAR/DRK/SAM, it's no coincidence that their always the "go to" DD jobs.

PLD falls behind for the same reason non-Mythic DRG (and now RUN) do, being forced to chose between +25% attack and +10% JA haste. When / If SE does the /DRK update, that will remedy a large part of that problem.

You just reinforced what I just said,idk if thats what you were trying to do or not,but you did.

By your logic any job not WAR,DRK,SAM (MNK gets special mention) is "not a DD".

I refuted this by saying that there is no such thing as "Tank job" in FFXI, the enmity system doesn't allow for it. Instead you have a set of melee jobs that all focus on different things. PLD is a melee that focus's on defense over offense and has access to basic white magic. DRK is a melee that focus's on offense over defense and has access to black magic. WAR is a melee that can focus on either offense or defense and has access to a wide range of weapons. SAM is a melee that focus's on TP generation above all else.

We as players then took those jobs and used them for what we thought they should be used for. In essence we created the labels not SE. They noticed our labels (it took then years btw) and sprinkled in their own ideas.

This relates to RUN because it's not a "tank job" but a DD that focus's on magic defense over offense and has access to self enhancing magic. Trying to do to RUN what the community eventually did to PLD will have the exact same results, a job that is largely ignored.

You will have much greater success if you think of RUN as a DD that has innate magic resistance. It won't deal as much damage as the DD's that focus on offense yet it can provide it's own abilities and support options to the crew. In essence it becomes like DNC and BLU.

I typed out 5 different sentences just now but I found none of them could do justice to the sheer idiocy of what I just read

Edit: Actually I just thought of some!

ITT: WHM,BLM and SCH are melee jobs that focus on white,black and both magic respectively!

Appeal to ridicule.

Try again.

Yup, no one has ever tanked on Paladin. Nope, never.

Your argument that there is no tank job, especially in FFXI, is pretty bad. Think about what a "tank" is supposed to do. They mitigate damage, generally by keeping the mobs focus on them while reducing/eliminating their damage taken. By this definition, there have been/are many tanks in the game. Of course there is Paladin, but you also have NIN, RDM, SAM, WAR, DNC, and heck, even THF. Hell, ALMOST any job can tank, which varies obviously with different degrees of mob difficulty, the events, etc... All of these have been used as tanks, and they have been used effectively. Regardless of the type of content, if you can reduce/eliminate the damage you take while keeping the mob facing you, you're a tank, at least at that moment.

SE "made" three tanks: PLD, WAR, and SAM. Players found ways for other jobs to tank, i.e. NIN, MNK, and SE followed suit and went from there. There ARE tanks in FFXI, regardless of whether or not the content allows for them to be tanks. In Voidwatch, everyone had access to damage mitigation tools (Fanatics, Fools) so whoever did the most damage while attacking frequently was the tank. Usually this would be the DRK, but WAR, MNK, and SAM will share hate. Hell, if your RNG keeps hate and the procs keep coming in, then the RNG is the tank.

With the recent update, the classic tank jobs are back and able to do what we've been trying to do: hold hate. Paladin has always been the master of damage mitigation, we just haven't been able to hold the mobs attention since the 50/75 cap, without severely gimping the DOT of the DD's. The enmity system was designed around level 50, since that was the cap at the time (holy ***that was a long time ago). Even at 75 DD's had to curb their damage by a lot (if well geared and such) to let the PLD keep hate. Regardless, enmity has been, and will continue to be, revamped in order for "tanks" to exist without making content too easy.

Also, assuming that a tank job ISN'T a DD is bad juju. The tank is generally going to have lower damage than the DD, no one is arguing that. Most situations, however, require that the tank also do decent damage in order to maintain enmity.

I'm starting to rant so I'll end this here, but you get the idea. Tanks exist, even if you don't think they do. "Traditional" tanks just haven't been used for a while, SE is trying to fix this, etc.. etc...

Umm your incorrect. The "classic tank jobs" are not back, the update didn't change anything that would of done that. You obviously didn't read the details in the update notes nor did the proper research to know the mechanics behind those.

The role of a tank is the following, in that exact order.

#1 Maintain Enmity off support crew
#2 Kill target
#3 Reduce incoming damage sufficiently enough not to drain healer resources.

Notice how the reducing damage part is at the bottom not the top, that's because you can reduce the damage to 0 and it would mean nothing it the monster is hitting someone else. It's also below damage because getting hit for 0 means nothing if the monster never dies.

The orientation of #1 and #2 are what distinguish between a "DD" and a "Tank". Unfortunately in FFXI the enmity is such that those two are functionally the same, he who deals the most damage (until hate cap) will maintain the monsters attention. This has the 2nd order effect of merging the "DD" and "Tank" roles into a singular role.

Finally all jobs can do #3 sufficiently now. There once was an argument about needing to reduce damage intake as the healers healing capacity was limited. We have long since reached the point where the three healers (WHM / SCH / RDM) can maintain their MP to the point that any job can now sufficiently fulfill this requirement.

Now I'm not assuming a tank isn't a DD job, as I've states numerous times their the same thing with different jobs focusing on different aspects. It's the ones dumb enough to suggest gearing "for defense" and not trying to do damage. If you take your head out of your fifth point of contact you'll see the above two posters were arguing that PLD was *not* a DD and therefor shouldn't be geared for damage.

Your actually supporting my argument (that Tank and DD are interchangeable) while desperately trying to appear as though your not.

I can't. Your posts are so long winded and just sound like chatter at this point. I keep coming here to get info on RUN but I keep seeing posts about "there are no tanks in the game". Can we please get back to RUN info? I'm also having a problem even believing that you have RUN leveled to 99. It appears that you are just using spread sheet info. Hands on data is what we need now. Please, enough with these long posts that do not pertain to what the threads are asking for.

Damn, Zohnak beat me to it.

I think Saevel gets an email everytime someone says the word "tank" in a post. One of these days we'll see him pop in a thread about the war in the neareast saying that there are no tanks, cause anyone can throw himself at the enemies naked grabbing their attention and it's impossible to mantain hate cause someone can always kick you in the balls every morning jumping on top of your hatelist!

And yet nobody can provide a detailed rebuttal other then personal attacks.

This is nothing but a computer program running on a server somewhere. Knowing the mechanics and algorithms that program uses will allow us to predict the results. We just happen to know the algorithms behind damage and enmity. Using that knowledge we can then determine what exactly the results will be and *gasp* it's exactly what I've been saying this entire time.

Many of you are butt hurt because "tanking" the old fashioned way has not made a comeback, the defense and enmity adjustments were not sufficient to do this. I said this weeks ago when SE posted what they were going to do. Many of the same people here cried that "DD zerg is dead!!" which as demonstrated it obviously isn't.

As for the OP "RUN in Salvage", it's just a weak DD with support options and a resistance against taking magic damage. The most you can hope for is "tanking" the SSRII megaboss which I already dualbox on WAR.

If people wish to discuss other events I'll break those down also.

Please stop. 500 of your 618 posts are the same thing copy/pasted.