I like play ninja for alot think and not sure if best way are Kannagi 99 or Kikoku 99 ... anyone have both 99 and can say me wat he do if was need choice only 1 ? and why?
And wat other relic 99 look best choice ? ( exepted Aegis, Ghalahorn and Mandau )
Kikoku Or Kannagi 99?
Kikoku or Kannagi 99?
ya for WS sure Kannagi wins... but why ppl continue to raise Kikoku if WS are *** ?
Apocalypse, Ragnarok, Annihilator 99 are all good.
Sylph.Hyunkyl said: »
Apocalypse
lol
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Sylph.Hyunkyl said: »
Apocalypse, Ragnarok, Annihilator 99 are all good.
RNG i dont like. APO or Ragna best? and drk job still good ? vs the war Ukko , Monk vere and SAM Masa ?
Sylph.Etoilemourante said: »
ya for WS sure Kannagi wins... but why ppl continue to raise Kikoku if WS are *** ?
Blade: Shun is pretty comparable to Hi outside Abyssea, last time I checked. Then it's 30% ODD (after WS) vs. a 13% chance to do triple damage on the first swing + 40 Attack.
As I see it, Kikoku is probably a better weapon. But really, what is NIN good for these days anymore anyway? Farming empyreans for other jobs in Abyssea? Might as well just make a Ragnarok and use it on DRK or WAR.
As I see it, Kikoku is probably a better weapon. But really, what is NIN good for these days anymore anyway? Farming empyreans for other jobs in Abyssea? Might as well just make a Ragnarok and use it on DRK or WAR.
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I prefer Kikoku. You don't need to use Metsu since the triple damage does not require aftermath. And like Byrth said, Shun is comparable to Hi outside Abyssea.
but without Metsu you dont have the Paralyse effect ?
and for the 13% triple dmg i have Mandau and need no double attack, no triple attack.. finaly its rarely proc. but stay nice .
Unhappy i never see Kannagi 99... i think for can see really best one, need see both at 99... not 85 blade hi vs merits WS ninja and relic 95 or 99...
and for the 13% triple dmg i have Mandau and need no double attack, no triple attack.. finaly its rarely proc. but stay nice .
Unhappy i never see Kannagi 99... i think for can see really best one, need see both at 99... not 85 blade hi vs merits WS ninja and relic 95 or 99...
well according to Spreadsheets kannagi will always beat Kikoku just saying yes equal gear
If you honestly need the Paralyze effect on Metsu... I think you should focus yourself on other priorities. Thats why you have Jubaku. Kikoku is a good DD weapon along with the occ. 3x DMG and +40 attack, but for the most part, you'd be better off doing another Relic. Kannagi is better in Abyssea, and Shun is a decent WS outside
Thanzo187 said: »
well according to Spreadsheets kannagi will always beat Kikoku just saying yes equal gear
I don't think this is true. At 90, Kikoku has to have an ODD rate of 7 and at 99, ODD of 10, to beat Kannagi in same gear. Mote had 24 in there as ODD rate. Which puts 10 DPS over Kannagi. I'm just saying what the sheet says. Hopefully, someone who knows can shed some light on this issue (Byrth?).
Edit: No clue what would change if you gave perfect WS sets to each.
Odin.Rikiyame said: »
Thanzo187 said: »
well according to Spreadsheets kannagi will always beat Kikoku just saying yes equal gear
I don't think this is true. At 90, Kikoku has to have an ODD rate of 7 and at 99, ODD of 10, to beat Kannagi in same gear.
not sure what exactly you mean, but the Relic weapon Tripple DMG has a 13% chance to activate on 1st swing of an attackround on Mandau, so i guess on Katana it should be equal. If you mean Tripple dmg on Relic weapon, since there is no ODD on Kikoku. And Kanagi ODD is 30/40/50% depends on TP.
Cerberus.Mindi said: »
Odin.Rikiyame said: »
Thanzo187 said: »
well according to Spreadsheets kannagi will always beat Kikoku just saying yes equal gear
I don't think this is true. At 90, Kikoku has to have an ODD rate of 7 and at 99, ODD of 10, to beat Kannagi in same gear.
not sure what exactly you mean, but the Relic weapon Tripple DMG has a 13% chance to activate on 1st swing of an attackround on Mandau, so i guess on Katana it should be equal. If you mean Tripple dmg on Relic weapon, since there is no ODD on Kikoku. And Kanagi ODD is 30/40/50% depends on TP.
Yep, but for sheet purposes, what would the equivalent ODD rate be for a 13%-3X-First-hit-only?
I'm a pretty big fan of my Kikoku, unless i'm in voidwatch or abyssea.
These guys are right though, its not worth your time to 99 either Katana unless you really love playing NIN and its just what you wanna do.
You can still be a great ninja with a lv90 Kannagi, but you can be an *amazing* Drk or War with a Ragnarok for the same cost.
However if you just wanna be a ****ing ninja for whatever reason(Like me >.>) Go for it, no one is stopping you. Both katanas are real nice for the job.
These guys are right though, its not worth your time to 99 either Katana unless you really love playing NIN and its just what you wanna do.
You can still be a great ninja with a lv90 Kannagi, but you can be an *amazing* Drk or War with a Ragnarok for the same cost.
However if you just wanna be a ****ing ninja for whatever reason(Like me >.>) Go for it, no one is stopping you. Both katanas are real nice for the job.
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Odin.Rikiyame said: »
Yep, but for sheet purposes, what would the equivalent ODD rate be for a 13%-3X-First-hit-only?
oh ok now i understand your question ^^; but i cant give an awnser :x Never really used one of those spreadsheet to find a difference between relic and emph weapon :x
Relics hidden effects can't proc on WS's, or at least on Gungnir it doesn't.
Simple: you dual wield 90 Kannagi and 95 Kikoku.
Ragnarok is the best GS for Resolution, Apocalypse is still the best scythe and offers a new side to DRK, and if you wanna see some Kannagi 99, ask Rasibian on Sylph!
The paralyze is an added effect. It procs quite often, and you do not need to use Metsu...
Odin.Rikiyame said: »
Cerberus.Mindi said: »
Odin.Rikiyame said: »
Thanzo187 said: »
well according to Spreadsheets kannagi will always beat Kikoku just saying yes equal gear
I don't think this is true. At 90, Kikoku has to have an ODD rate of 7 and at 99, ODD of 10, to beat Kannagi in same gear.
not sure what exactly you mean, but the Relic weapon Tripple DMG has a 13% chance to activate on 1st swing of an attackround on Mandau, so i guess on Katana it should be equal. If you mean Tripple dmg on Relic weapon, since there is no ODD on Kikoku. And Kanagi ODD is 30/40/50% depends on TP.
Yep, but for sheet purposes, what would the equivalent ODD rate be for a 13%-3X-First-hit-only?
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
...
26% multiplied by whatever percentage of your mainhand attacks will be first hits. Final result should be roughly 18% with current builds for /WAR outside Abyssea.
26% multiplied by whatever percentage of your mainhand attacks will be first hits. Final result should be roughly 18% with current builds for /WAR outside Abyssea.
Is it correct to state the following based on 100 attacks that do 100DMG
For Kannagi (with ODD from 100TP)
(70 x 100=7000) + (30 x 200=6000) = 13000 DMG
For Kikoku (no Aftermatch needed)
(82 x 100=8200) + (18 x 300=5400) = 13600 DMG
In this scenario Kikoku > Kannagi while not counting WS damage and under the condition that Aftermath is always up.
Does this makes sense or am I totally doing it wrong?
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Kannagi
Huh... I keep getting 99 Kikoku pulling ahead in Motenten's spreadsheet for multiple targets. All using the presumably best gearset available.
What am I doing wrong. I can remember getting Kannagi winning a few months ago...
/confuzzled
What am I doing wrong. I can remember getting Kannagi winning a few months ago...
/confuzzled
ok well as a long time owner and probably the first owner of kikoku 99 on all servers (since I was only one of the nutty ones to do so when marrow was like 25 mil a piece), let me just clarify few things.
1. paralyze effect doesn't work through a ws. It's an added effect through a regular melee attack.
2. paralyze effect from kikoku sucks. you'd do better with a jubaku: ichi.
3. aftermath of blade: metsu sucks EVEN more. you can cap subtle blow from a many other places including myoshu (if i remember spell's name correctly).
bottom line: is it worth it?
umm.......... hmm .... if you have nothing better to spend money on it.. why not?
I have it and I'm pretty happy with it ^^ so, do your own thing.
1. paralyze effect doesn't work through a ws. It's an added effect through a regular melee attack.
2. paralyze effect from kikoku sucks. you'd do better with a jubaku: ichi.
3. aftermath of blade: metsu sucks EVEN more. you can cap subtle blow from a many other places including myoshu (if i remember spell's name correctly).
bottom line: is it worth it?
umm.......... hmm .... if you have nothing better to spend money on it.. why not?
I have it and I'm pretty happy with it ^^ so, do your own thing.
Necro Bump Detected!
[86 days between previous and next post]
Etoile... you play Dancer more. Everyone on Sylph knows this :)
Go Kikoku. An 85Kannagi can get it done in abyssea (not to mention free). I'd recommend 99Kikoku for everything else. I'm partial that way as a long-time main nin and use Kikoku more and see higher dmg marks. We (as in Sylph) have a few 99's that agree.
As for other relics, you'll see a jump (more like a spike) in Ragnarok being built. Why? Resolution is sick and the weapon offers too much upside with little-to-no downside (left a little slack in there in case someone wants to be argumentative about technicalities :P).
Go Kikoku. An 85Kannagi can get it done in abyssea (not to mention free). I'd recommend 99Kikoku for everything else. I'm partial that way as a long-time main nin and use Kikoku more and see higher dmg marks. We (as in Sylph) have a few 99's that agree.
As for other relics, you'll see a jump (more like a spike) in Ragnarok being built. Why? Resolution is sick and the weapon offers too much upside with little-to-no downside (left a little slack in there in case someone wants to be argumentative about technicalities :P).
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