They wanted to offer an arduous final task for those who are completionists. If stage 2 had been the only trial, there would be tons of people complaining about inaccessibility; if stage 1 had been the only trial, there would be those feeling underwhelmed at their last upgrade (similar feelings were expressed about GK10). By presenting 2 weapons with virtually equal utility, people can comfortably stop at stage 1 with a completely valid weapon, and those who want to do something monumental are welcome to it as long as they realize the only real reward is self satisfaction.
Haven't you ever 100%'d a game before? How is this any different? I think people just enjoy complaining o.o
self-satisfaction knowing you screwed people over on millions of gil and time for 8~ months? i don't blame you, no ones forcing them to go, but it's hardly self-satisfaction lol.
They wanted to offer an arduous final task for those who are completionists. If stage 2 had been the only trial, there would be tons of people complaining about inaccessibility; if stage 1 had been the only trial, there would be those feeling underwhelmed at their last upgrade (similar feelings were expressed about GK10). By presenting 2 weapons with virtually equal utility, people can comfortably stop at stage 1 with a completely valid weapon, and those who want to do something monumental are welcome to it as long as they realize the only real reward is self satisfaction.
Haven't you ever 100%'d a game before? How is this any different? I think people just enjoy complaining o.o
Theres alot better things they could of made instead of a useless time sink so we can glow a certian color. Most ppl have valid complaints cause se is too stupid and lazy to make something usefull, fun and we can actually enjoy. I've never done ADL but i dont see how its easily done by most players.
if it's the pushing point for me to quit and do something else I wouldn't complain if there's nothing else left to do in the game. In a game so outdated but still moderately fun it's a win/win situation in my eyes whether someone keeps playing or quits. There's always other options vs this game where there's only so much they can add to this crusty thing that we all still somehow love and the people that play it.
The system actually works better for the majority of players because they can realistically obtain things they can be proud of, while still offering "hardcore" players alternatives albeit at an increasingly diminishing returns rate. A glowing weapon that's 50 times harder to get than the non-glowing one is the epitome of MMO design.
Quote:
self-satisfaction knowing you screwed people over on millions of gil and time for 8~ months? i don't blame you, no ones forcing them to go, but it's hardly self-satisfaction lol.
I don't think slave labor linkshells exist anymore, or at least those stupid enough to go along with this without some kind of compensation. I see it more as someone with way too much gil to throw around, who wants the ultimate in trophy gear that shines in town. People also buy clothes, cars and houses that cost 20-1,000+ times that what ordinary people pay for items of the same utility. Again, I don't see the problem. No one is forcing you to make this upgrade; the fact that it's offered at all shows they're thinking about the vast variety of different types of people who play this game.
I could understand if there was a difference in utility between the two. If it were a better weapon, obviously the whole "no one is forcing you to do it" is faulty because we assume people want to keep gear they've spent a very long time on at its best.
The point is, it's not. They made them virtually the same weapons (afterglow is laughable) because of this, so that stage 1 is just as viable an "end" as stage 2 is, minus the fact it glows. If you want your weapon to glow, which is a pure ego reward, you put in the extra effort, or you say *** that ***and don't do it, laugh at people who do, it's completely up to you. I seriously don't get this.
Be nice, if that these after glow effects could be placed on trials for ppl whp have made WOE emp weapons.
Just because we used coin, instead of Abyssea...
<Feeling left out, but not QQ'ing>
Just sayin...
(Feels like SE is hatin or they isolating certian abilites ( or types of weps made) if you didn't make the cut, if you didn't spend all that damn time making an Abys Emp wep....)
Should be exclusive to the real shinies, fake shinies don't deserve it.
I think it's utterly hilarious to do a trial for an afterglow effect that you don't benefit from but for other people to benefit from. There's nothing wrong with you for doing so, I just couldn't bring myself to care about giving crit rate enhancements to my PUG gameplay style.
In vw I'd just get condemned to backburner party hell anwyays I'm sure Blackmages and Summoners will rejoice and melee with their Claustrums in glee.
Just a matter of opinion. You have your opinion, as well as mine.
Would you be mad bro, of all of a sudden SE just goes ahead and makes something awesome for the WOE peeps who made emp weapons their way??
I highly see some QQ going on, if something special came about, and all the ppl who made their Abyss Empy, got rooked, just b/c they didn't make a WOE....
C'mon???
TBH, idc really about afterglow.. just another gimmick.
all wrong, how progression works in just about every MMO.
the only time this has ever been in the other direction was with abyssea, and they dubbed abyssea a failure, why? because people could farm what they wanted in quick succession, faster then they intended due to broken atma combinations, of which I'm shocked with all the nerfs, that they haven't started nerfing abyssea atmas.
Just about every event I can think of, this chart best describes peoples time and effort for a good reward, relic/mythic/empyrean upgrade to 99 w/ afterglow fitting it perfectly, or those that find ADL hard I guess it could be accurate as well.
I've never had the urge to quit. Having seen this I'm finding myself questioning why not.
I was happy as hell when Abyssea came out, as it allowed people to get out of the old HNM system which was purely greed driven, often by unscrupulous individuals that did nothing other than use people to get what they wanted. In the majority of decent sized HNMLS it was always the case that the shellholder and officers were first in line to get the goodies while the grunts slaved away for months on end to get them what they wanted, with the promise that one day they might get a turn. Which rarely, if ever, happened. This was a dumb system that I was glad to be out of. Looks like the devs aren't happy that a lot of us split off into small low-man LS's to do our Empy's and are trying to force us all back into full-time alliances. Back to the old HNM ways then....no thanks. I did that for 3+ years straight and it's not happening again.
I'm not particularly looking forward to having to collect a ton of plates to get my Ukon to 95 as it is, having seen these follow-up quests to get it to 99 it just doesn't look like it's worth the hastle. Looks like I'll be leaving my Ukon @ 90 (once I finish it off that is).
Someone should go and slap the devs around with a reality bat, maybe they'll see sense. I thought 60 was bad enough, but a further 3,000 on top of that? What planet do these people live on?
I'm not sure any LS leader could get away with hording 255 drops for himself before anybody else got anything out of it even if the stage 2 upgrade dispensed primeval brews every hour.
i could give you an immediate list of at least 20 people who would try
Just a matter of opinion. You have your opinion, as well as mine.
Would you be mad bro, of all of a sudden SE just goes ahead and makes something awesome for the WOE peeps who made emp weapons their way??
I highly see some QQ going on, if something special came about, and all the ppl who made their Abyss Empy, got rooked, just b/c they didn't make a WOE....
C'mon???
TBH, idc really about afterglow.. just another gimmick.
<shrugs>
Not particularly, I've only leveled jobs that I love to play and only attempt to gear them the best to my knowledge because I like them what happens because of the updates doesn't really shift what I do too much or what I level next. I think it'd be some sort of random funny for them to give fake emps some sort of meager status symbol which would attempt to bridge the gap, which wouldn't be covered because the real power of a relic/mythic/emp isn't the ws in question it's the aftermath, ODD, occasionally rapes twice/thrice that fake emps will probrably never have(read: the real trophy).
The value in them them hasn't changed as far as usuage, it's a somewhat more affordable gimmick to get done nowadays(relic) and emps are really more about patience and coordinating people to work with you than any real hassle. It definitely feels watered down that everyone(in a sense) has them or the best or near best weapons in the game only take 2~7 days to make and how non magian weapons past 85 are scaled so that the 85 versions are still slighty stronger than 95% of level 99 weapons.
I guess I should have said in a sentence that it doesn't really matter much to me people do their thing and I do mine doesn't change the memory or the personal value of what I achieve but I'm not blind how the system is. Sorry for a long winded answer btw I'm full of them.
Objectively speaking...since most people are making relics and being easy to guestimate at least 80% of them are doing arch dl to finish them how would you properly distribute drops that wouldn't take months to a year and a half on end to finish (ironically like how it used to be for people who made relics before the change)?
And Mitosis, your graph was funny because it was accurate
I've never had the urge to quit. Having seen this I'm finding myself questioning why not.
Someone should go and slap the devs around with a reality bat, maybe they'll see sense. I thought 60 was bad enough, but a further 3,000 on top of that? What planet do these people live on?
Paraphrase: They made your game hard so someone should inflict physical harm upon them because THEY don't understand the difference between reality/game.
[dev1065] Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean Weapon Upgrades
With the forthcoming version update, players will be able to upgrade equipment to level 99 in two stages:
Stage 1
Possible upgrades will include damage, delay, and weapon skill damage along with other attributes.
The planned difficulty level for the corresponding Magian upgrade trials will be such that a majority of players with the appropriate level 95 equipment will likely be able to complete them.
*This content is not yet available on the test server.
Step 2
Possible upgrades will include special animations along with "Afterglow" effects that grant status benefits to party members.
The corresponding Magian trials will be exceedingly difficult to complete, such that only a select number of PCs will be able to upgrade weapons to this stage.
*Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla may not be imbued with Afterglow effects.
Upgraded Attributes
Please refer to the following charts for descriptions of upgraded weapon attributes:
To test this content, please talk to the Magian Moogle and input the corresponding trial number, as listed in the charts above.
Afterglow
Upgrading a weapon to stage two will result in the addition of an Afterglow effect.
Afterglow bestows beneficial status effects upon party members in an area surrounding (but excluding) the wielder.
*Party members must be inside the specified area when Afterglow is activated to receive status effects.
The duration for each Afterglow is thirty seconds.
*The effect of a certain Afterglow will be overwritten if an identical one is activated within that thirty-second timeframe.
Separate Afterglow effects will stack if they are cast within the same effect duration.
There are five categories of Afterglow effects:
Relic Weapons: Increased accuracy and ranged accuracy
Mythic weapons: Increased attack and ranged attack
Empyrean weapons: Increased critical hit rate
Aegis: Reduced magic damage taken
Ochain: Reduced physical damage taken
Afterglow effects activate when the weapon skill corresponding to the equipped weapon
For Aegis and Ochain, the effects activate when Shield Bash is used.
The hierarchy for overwriting Aftermath and Afterglow effects is as follows:
One's Own Aftermath: Lv3>Lv2>Lv1>Party Member's Afterglow
Visual Effects
Weapons upgraded to stage two will display special visual effects when equipped:
Relic Weapons
Mythic Weapons
Empyrean Weapons
Visual effects will display in the following priority:
Main Weapon>Ranged Weapon>Sub Weapon
Other Information of Note
Additional planned features, such as equipment-specific magic spells and pets, have been postponed to allow for more thorough testing concerning attributes, the number of potential users and the process by which to obtain them. One consideration is whether to implement such features as another stage of the above upgrades, or to apply them to a different set of equipment. Also under deliberation is whether to limit the availability of such equipment or make it relatively simple to obtain.
Attack+40 Enhances "Counter" effect V"Final Heaven"(+40%)Increased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
3556
Mandau
Rare ExDMG:55Delay:176
Attack+40 "Mercy Stroke"(+40%) Additional effect: PoisonIncreased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
3563
Excalibur
Rare ExDMG:73Delay:233
Attack+40 "Knights of Round"(+40%)Additional effect: Damage varies with HPIncreased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
3567
Ragnarok
Rare ExDMG:143Delay:431
Accuracy+40 Increases rate of critical hits V"Scourge"(+40%)Increased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
3568
Guttler
Rare ExDMG:88Delay:280
Attack+40 "Onslaught"(+40%) Additional effect: "Choke"Increased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
3570
Bravura
Rare ExDMG:158Delay:488
Accuracy+40 "Metatron Torment"(+40%)Additional effect: Impairs evasionIncreased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
3574
Gungnir
Rare ExDMG:159Delay:492
Accuracy+40 "Geirskogul"(+40%) Additional effect: Weakens defenseIncreased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
3572
Apocalypse
Rare ExDMG:167Delay:513
Accuracy+40 "Catastrophe"(+40%) Additional effect: BlindIncreased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
3576
Kikoku
Rare ExDMG:64Delay:210
Attack+40 "Blade: Metsu"(+40%) Additional effect: ParalysisIncreased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
3578
Amanomurakumo
Rare ExDMG:132Delay:437
Accuracy+40 "Tachi: Kaiten"(+40%) Additional effect: Weakens attacksIncreased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
3580
Mjollnir
Rare ExDMG:93Delay:308
Attack+40 "Randgrith"(+40%) Additional effect: Recover MPIncreased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
3582
Claustrum
Rare ExDMG:113Delay:390
Accuracy+40 "Gate of Tartarus"(+40%) Additional effect: DispelIncreased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
3587
Annihilator
Rare ExDMG:76Delay:582
Ranged Accuracy+40 Ranged Attack+30 "Coronach"(+40%)Increased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
3586
Yoichinoyumi
Rare ExDMG:126Delay:524
Ranged Accuracy+40 Ranged Attack+30 "Namas Arrow"(+40%)Increased chance of dealing extra damageAfterglow (Increases Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy)
I forwarded your question to the dev. team and they informed me that there are no plans in making the stats and the weapon skill damage different between the two stages of the weapons. The difference between the two will be the afterglow and the visual effect.
I’d like to share the developers’ thoughts and plan for these new trials and upgrades.
When it comes to the first stage of upgrades for relic/mythic/empyrean weapons, this is considered to be the weapon’s complete form and is also the one the developers expect most players can achieve. They don’t want to dangle a carrot in front of everyone saying, “you can make these weapons even more powerful!” and then make it so only small fraction of players achieve this.
On the other hand, as some of you have already mentioned, the second stage of these weapon enhancements is left for those players who wish to go above and beyond—the “completionists” so to speak. This is why there will be no difference in weapon skill damage or other stats and only an AoE benefit as well as a special effect will be given for completing this upgrade.
I have some additional information on enhancements to relic weapons, mythic weapons, and empyrean weapons.
The other day we announced that there would be two stages for enhancing these weapons via Trial of the Magians. During this week’s test server update we will be implementing these weapons as well adding the associated trials.
The items required to enhance the weapons are as listed below; however, the amount required is still being tested and adjusted so note that what is listed below is only temporary.
Also, along with the addition of the trials, we will be increasing the amount of zeni you receive when trading soulplates to the ZNM NPC Sanraku.
※There have been no changes to the previously announced adjustment plans.
Gildrein said:
Stage 1
Possible upgrades will include damage, delay, and weapon skill damage along with other attributes.
The planned difficulty level for the corresponding Magian upgrade trials will be such that a majority of players with the appropriate level 95 equipment will likely be able to complete them.
*This content is not yet available on the test server.
Stage 2
Possible upgrades will include special animations along with "Afterglow" effects that grant status benefits to party members.
The corresponding Magian trials will be exceedingly difficult to complete, such that only a select number of PCs will be able to upgrade weapons to this stage. *Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla may not be imbued with Afterglow effects.
Stage 1 ※The number of items required for upgrade is temporary.
Weapon Classification
Trial Information
Relic Weapons
Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item.Objective: 20 Umbral Marrow
Mythic Weapons
Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item. Objective: 10 Mulcibar’s Scoria
We have been seeing a lot of pretty fierce comments in regards to the trials to upgrade Relic/Mythic/Empyrean weapons and I feel the need to comment on a couple of things.
The number of items necessary
Let me start off with an explanation and apology.
While we did mention that the number was temporary, it seems like many of you misunderstood that and took the numbers we posted as indicators of the actual values. Instead, we should have used numbers like 1 or 9999 to make it abundantly clearer that these numbers were temporary.
I do not want to risk confusing you all even more, so I will make this simple. The difficulty (as well as time necessary) of obtaining the items necessary to upgrade each type of gear will be, in order of increasing difficulty, Mythic > Relic > Empyrean. As such, the number of items necessary to upgrade each type of gear will not be the same between the sets of trials.
As an adjustment to the time required for both creating and enhancing Mythic weapons, we are trying to increase the amount of zeni received for each soulplate traded, so you receive over 10 times the amount. (Currently on the test server the data has been changed so you receive 15 times as much)
With this as a basis, we are currently looking into and testing the appropriate amount of items, as well as the content of trials up until now and the obtainment paths for the required items. Once the amount has been decided after the investigation, we will be announcing the information along with the detailed thought process behind it.
In the meantime, we ask that you please stop focusing discussions on the idea that these values on the test server are the actual values that are to be implemented.
The accuracy of the content implemented on the test server
Regarding content implemented on the test server, we have been receiving comments stating that it is not right to implement content that has yet to be finalized.
We understand that some of these comments may come from players who have not read our posts or the information released with the road map, but I would like to explain again, because the test server is an important aspect of future version updates, as well as our development and QA procedures.
In general, please consider content implemented on the test server as content that is either in development, needing adjustments or in the process of being adjusted.
As soon as content is implemented on the test server, not only do players have a chance to test out the new content, the development and QA teams also perform balance checks and bug screening. It would be possible to delay player access to the test server, but this would shorten the time that players are able to submit feedback, which may lead to unnecessary delays. Therefore, we have our current test server for the benefit of all involved, so we would appreciate if you understand the reasoning behind our current implementation strategy.
I asked the development team about the possibility of changing the trial requirements from collecting specific items to straight up kills of the specific notorious monster, since there were quite a lot of comments regarding this topic.
The development team had looked into changing the trial requirements in this way; however, for a variety of reasons they decided it would be better to not make this change. The biggest reason for this decision is that it was explained previously on the forum that the basis for stage 1 enhancements would be item collection and their thinking is that as long as there are people who have already started collecting these items, it would be best not to change the trial.
Also, there is quite a difference in between item collection and kills. For item trials, in an 18 person fight, one person will receive an item. Whereas for a trial requirement involving a specific number of kills, in an 18 person fight, all 18 people would receive the kill credit. While it’s not really as simple as multiplying it 18 times, since the basic thinking would be that the kill count should be greater than the number of items, in the event that we were to change the trial requirements from item collection to kills, there is a high possibility that the number would rise significantly.
Currently since we are only looking into devising the appropriate number of items to collect, I am not going to be able to tell you an estimate of how many kills it would take, but please know that there would most likely be a huge gap between the numbers.
Some of you have already posted the information that was on the Japanese forums, but here it is again, officially.
Required number of items
As a result of adjustments to match the trial difficulty, the below are the current numbers that are planned for the stage 1 version of the weapon upgrades.
Relic Weapons: 5 items
Mythic Weapons: 3 items
Empyrean Weapons: 60 items
※As we are currently carefully looking into the number of items required for stage 2, we will let you know the specifics once the information is available.
I’d like to inform you all about the final number of required items for the relic/mythic/empyrean weapon trials that were implemented during today’s version update.
Adjustments were made to the second stage trials with the same way of thinking as the adjustments made to the first stage. The below are the finalized numbers:
When we adjusted the numbers for the first stage, we had mentioned that as a goal, it would be possible for more than half of players that have the respective level 95 item to complete it. However, we didn’t touch on the time it would take to complete these trials and since the appropriate difficulty we imagined caused confusion, I’d like to explain about this point a bit.
Stage one trial completion time
A good amount of time will be required to complete this trial. The reason being that since these are items with exceptional stats for high level characters, there needs to be an appropriate difficulty level for obtaining them.
If beginning the trials right after implementation, and without competition, we expect the fastest person to complete the relic/mythic weapon trials in less than a week. However, since this item collection will be done in parties and alliances, along with others that also wish to lot on the items, if trials are worked on continuously, and players complete this trial in order, we expect more than half to complete the trial in roughly 3 months.
(We expect empyrean weapons to take quite a bit longer.)
This is the average completion time, so by getting help from others and also purchasing these items, the completion time will be reduced further.
Congestion
In regards to relic and mythic trials, we expect decentralization with the steps leading up to the final boss.
We have seen instances of the below comments on the forum, but due to certain reasons we will need to put them off.
Make monsters in steps along the way drop the items
As long as it’s the same route, this will not serve to avoid congestion and will only make collecting the items easier. In this case, it would become necessary to lower the drop rate and/or increase the number of items required.
As a result, in addition to the number of fights increasing, there would be foreseeable congestion with the paths that have less steps and quicker to get through.
Increase the number of ???
There are a lot of parts that were created based on the fact that there is only one ???, so increasing the number of ??? is not easy and was not selected as a method.
Stage 2 items
First, I’d like to once again share the thought behind the status of the stage 2 items.
Gildrein said:
Stage 2
Possible upgrades will include special animations along with "Afterglow" effects that grant status benefits to party members.
The corresponding Magian trials will be exceedingly difficult to complete, such that only a select number of PCs will be able to upgrade weapons to this stage.
To put the above in a different way, the stage 2 item is a kind of achievement and one that serves to fulfill self-satisfaction.
By upgrading to the stage 2 item, it will be possible to activate the afterglow effects, but the player who activates the afterglow will not receive the benefits of the effect for themselves, and the reason for this was to make it so this upgrade is not essential.
The same reason applies to why stats are not increased for the stage 2 items.
Also, graphical effects have been added to each item and this was done so players around you would see it and think, “Oh, nice that person upgraded all the way to stage 2.”
When gauging a monster’s strength, we do not make balance adjustments on the basis of relic/mythic/empyrean weapons. Furthermore, we have no plans to make adjustments to monster strength based on the possession of stage 2 weapons in the future.
We greatly appreciate your understanding of these reasons and intentions.
