Elemental Ni/San Nuking?

Recently came across this thread and it basically says that geared/atma'ed/haste'd right you should be able to get between 10k-12k of damage assuming no resisted per minute. I'm retardedly tired and am going to bed now so I didn't have time to read the whole thread, I just wanted to see if numbers like that or even remotely close to that are possible.

85 cap, inside Abyssea, sure why not. Meanwhile, good melee NINs were doing twice that with Razed Ruins.

Melee is so bandwagon.

You made me lol hard.

In abyssea with good gear/buffs you should do somewhere around 2k per san ninjutsu.

Outside of abyssea vs anything that matters, quite gimped.

per minute? Oh hell yeah no doubt, can do 10k with 3 casts easily. Possibly in the perfect situation even only 1 cast.

With my set I average 1,000~1,200 Ni's, 3,000ish Sans, 6,000~8,000 Futae Sans on EXP mobs.

As far as EXPing I don't think a melee build comes close to a nuke set, however on NMs unless it's a special NM that takes enhances magic damage/-pdt it's far in the other direction.

Quoted post was 85 cap, slightly different environment.

Regardless, I can push nearly 750 DPS on a fodder mob in Abyssea with a 90 Kannagi with just Haste. 1.2k Nis are by comparison about 450 DPS, and a 3k San is about 850 DPS (both assuming very good FC swaps). Assuming you're managing TP properly (wsing nearby mobs at full HP rather than wasting damage), melee is not only close but likely still superior.

EDIT: revisions and clarification of buffs

You also have to remember the time it takes to engage, run up, build TP, ect... Where as with nukes all you do is run up and cast, no need to engage or anything, That's the main reason I say Nukes > Melee for EXP parties.

There is no doubt in my mind if it was a low man party a melee build could easily out damage nukes, I'm more so talking about your average 18 person dom ops party.

autotarget

doing it wrong

That is part of dps, yes. If I was truly spamming 5k+ WS (with an admitted loss to overflow on double TA procs, so somewhat closer to 700 DPS), it would obviously be much higher.

Time spent getting a page is time spent not killing mobs. It's a terrible way of EXPing for competent groups unless you're clearing mobs faster than they pop, at which point it's irrelevant for either option. Kill old content with less HP, exp chain takes more kills to build up but you kill faster and maintain that benefit once you cap.

So your argument is based in part on overflow damage on nukes, which has no impact on exp/cruor per hour? If all you can find is 20% mobs and you're sitting on TP it doesn't matter what you WS because it's time for new mobs to come in.

On the note of casting, let's bear in mind the fact that I completely ignored the fact that you won't time casting perfectly. There will be "gaps" in nuking damage that add up over time.

You're arguing from a heavily biased standpoint. If anything, the primary gain of a nuking method is that you don't have to play as aggressively to maintain its effectiveness. It's an effective setup, but it in no way outstrips melee unless you're assuming the worst possible scenario... at which point I'd just say *** it and go lowman exp anyway because gimp exp is more trouble than it's worth. Worth noting that you will be better off nuking if solo exping at least, but there's not much point in doing that unless you're farming chests.

Sure, if you can auto-target mobs. In my experience there really wasn't many instances that you can.

How would you manage to not run up in an average dom op party? I'm not talking about a amazing party or an AoE burn, but a 90% pink/perle/teal party... Which sad I know, but how I got most of my EXP on NIN.


I can't argue with that. Not everyone always get in a competent group.

Yes, I suppose so.

Can't argue with that either.

I suppose so, if you had mobs in groups where you can auto-attack, and don't need to run, then sure a nuke set wouldn't be anywhere as good.

You know FAR more about the math in FFXI than I do, and I'm sure you could easily win any argument I put out. There is honestly no point in me even arguing with you.

All I know is that from my time playing NIN in abyssea dom ops parties on buffalo, and dolls nukes far out damage any melee build NIN I've ever ran across.

http://static.ffxiah.com/images/ss/full/pC51148Lu6D9cu2a.png

win

For a minute there I thought I was supposed to be looking at the Expiacion damage because I couldn't see anything else and I was just going "...what?" Nice MB though.

This goes back to what I was talking about with aggressiveness. If I'm chaining mobs, I'm constantly positioning so that I autotarget the next mob and I'll re-target mid-ws if I'm actually targeting that mob instead of just tabbing over to it for the ws.

I would've gone nuts trying to do that honestly so it's not really part of my thought processes. I've done maybe two pickups on NIN ever. Given the choice of doing that or solo/duoing, I'd have just gotten lights and left. NIN doesn't really need much healing anyway. So much easier for me to do that or CW burn and I don't feel like I'm wasting time/effort that way (whereas waiting on slow pullers = raaaaaaaaage). It's one thing if I'm just going at my own pace, another if I'm exping in a group. As a side note, this is why I stick to GoV, cleaving, or just getting merits via VW these days.

Also worth noting that I'm looking at this from a current perspective rather than 85-90 cap era; increased level correction and weaker gear drops melee output moreso than magic so it was potentially a different story then. Potentially not having Kannagi, much less 90, would also affect things.

Yes you have a kannagi, we got that, still /rdm with perfect gear will crush it in quite a few situations, even on some nm is nice to sit back and toss nukes with low enmity.

Dunno about vw, only tried kaggen but skill was still low, not enough gear, unresisted just under 500dmg but most were resists.

Going to post some results when set is finished.

So does Upbeat, it was entirely relevant.

You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Nukes don't generate reduced enmity.

You dont even now your Ja's...go away plz.

If your referring to innin its a moot point because you can use that for meleeing too...

He doesn't know what he's talking about...and arguing with a couple of established/credited players on these forums.../ignore

lolz.

You can go away too established/credited my *** if you cant read thread.

Maybe you can't read the thread. Seriously what JA are you talking about? ya thats what i thought. you don't know your JAs buddy. and stop telling ppl to go away. its sad...

Edit: also to OP. ya with the right ATMAs and gear you can deal great dmg. so it is a viable way to level ninjutsu while exping/meriting if you were worried about that. you will most likely outdmg other melee so if they give you ***just /slap them.

Jaja topicbanned.

But now i will never know of the JA he was talking about! D: you have doomed me to a world of mystery and torture krizzy ; ;. anyways i forgive you.

/offtopicpostsoff

so other than mab (mainly earrings) do you just stack int for high ni dmg? im trying to amber farm on my nin, wanna make the nin spells do more dmg for easier farming. any suggestions?

i meant to get azure for TE, and other good chests. blade:yu far as i know is the best amber for nin.

if using a certain spell, like if you are 5/5 on hyoton: san, and you melee a mob down and wanna finish it with a nuke, i would do MAB and any element dmg+ atmas, like atma of beyond.

if you are spinning the wheel, try MAB and INT+. i used to use:
Beyond - MAB+30 / Ice Atk + 30
Kirin - INT+40 / M.Acc+ Major
Ultimate - MAB+ Superior / M.Acc+ Superior

I have found that /rdm is nice for amber/chest farming.

I use ambition, GH and VV while i am getting lights setup.

Melee down to about 15-20%, use a ni line to drop resistance for your merited futae san spell. Stack MAB INT etc.. Ninja has quite a few options now so play around with it?

Works pretty fast.

My nuke setup is usually
Koga hatsuburi/ +2
Iga tekko's +2
Sekka's +2 x2 total +18 int +20 mab
Moldivite Earring +5 mab
Hecate's Earring +6 mab +3 m.crit rate
Mirke wardecors +4 mab -5 QD from my cor set
Denali Kecks mab +3 macc +3
Ninja Kyahan +1 6 int
2x Diamond rings with +2 int augments for total of 12 int.
+5 int belt. Don't remember the name.

Get koga boots +2 and merit them.