Ninja Tool Expertise

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Ninja Tool Expertise
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 Bismarck.Ruizutatakau
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By Bismarck.Ruizutatakau 2012-01-09 03:21:58  
I was looking around and could not find anything about a cap. I see that in gear, JA, and weapon you could easily have 108% but I doubt we could get away with that. So, does anyone know anything about a cap?
 Bismarck.Snprphnx
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2012-01-09 03:50:33  
Cap may be close to, if not 100%. Whenever I am asked to go NIN for VW procs, I count my uni-tools before hand, typically over 8-12 fights in the night, I only use 20 or so, and I will cast 250-300 spells per night, equipping Af2 hands, oiriandori, keeping Yonin up, and 4/5 on merits. I'll parse a run later this week to try to get an exact number.

On thing I would also like to know, for gear swaps. At what point does and NTE gear need to be equipped for it to proc. is it precast, then able to swap out before the spell goes off, or does the gear have to be equipped at the end of casting.
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 Carbuncle.Wulfshadow
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By Carbuncle.Wulfshadow 2012-01-09 03:54:21  
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »
Cap may be close to, if not 100%. Whenever I am asked to go NIN for VW procs, I count my uni-tools before hand, typically over 8-12 fights in the night, I only use 20 or so, and I will cast 250-300 spells per night, equipping Af2 hands, oiriandori, keeping Yonin up, and 4/5 on merits. I'll parse a run later this week to try to get an exact number.

On thing I would also like to know, for gear swaps. At what point does and NTE gear need to be equipped for it to proc. is it precast, then able to swap out before the spell goes off, or does the gear have to be equipped at the end of casting.
Most likely when the spell is actually cast, not unlike conserve mp
 Sylph.Hitetsu
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By Sylph.Hitetsu 2012-01-09 03:56:18  
I'd assume it was at the end (when the tool is/would be expended).

I don't know how relevant this is, but when Yonin was first released NTE would kick in on every cast. I don't know if this was a glitch where Yonin would break a NTE cap that was in place, or whether it actually can work 100% (assuming Snprphnx's anecdote is reasonably accurate, it could very well cap very highly).

I've not played NIN properly since 75, so I can't really say for sure.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2012-01-09 03:56:25  
I think I can still get Oirandori and Koga Tekko +2 on the test server, so I can write a script to burn some shihei tonight while I sleep if no one does it first.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2012-01-09 04:02:24  
Would be awesome if anybody bothered to try, I've been wondering about a cap for some time and yeah, sounds unlikely they're making us get away with 100% activation rate.
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By Chyula 2012-01-09 05:22:28  
why we stacking on NTE gears instead of increase casting dmg gear? gil are so easy to come by I don't see why I'm even bother with saving a few gil to sacrfic dmg out put. 250-300 spells cast is nothing when 1 metal worth more than 5 stacks of Uni tools. Stacking NTE is like why spend millions on melee gear when you have Perle and Pink for free.
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 Leviathan.Hohenheim
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By Leviathan.Hohenheim 2012-01-09 05:26:06  
Chyula said: »
why we stacking on NTE gears instead of increase casting dmg gear? gil are so easy to come by I don't see why I'm even bother with saving a few gil to sacrfic dmg out put. 250-300 spells cast is nothing when 1 metal worth more than 5 stacks of Uni tools. Stacking NTE is like why spend millions on melee gear when you have Perle and Pink for free.

because utsusemi, tonko, monomi, migawari, aisha, yurin, dokumori, kurayami, jubaku, hojo all do damage right?
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 Leviathan.Dreamx
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By Leviathan.Dreamx 2012-01-09 05:47:21  
Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Chyula said: »
why we stacking on NTE gears instead of increase casting dmg gear? gil are so easy to come by I don't see why I'm even bother with saving a few gil to sacrfic dmg out put. 250-300 spells cast is nothing when 1 metal worth more than 5 stacks of Uni tools. Stacking NTE is like why spend millions on melee gear when you have Perle and Pink for free.

because utsusemi, tonko, monomi, migawari, aisha, yurin, dokumori, kurayami, jubaku, hojo all do damage right?

Isn't the entire point of NTE to conserve tools so you don't run out when you're unable to leave battle?

On the other argument, If there were more items to increase ninjutsu it would be factored in with Elemental Wheel-jutsu.
 Bismarck.Ruizutatakau
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By Bismarck.Ruizutatakau 2012-01-09 13:16:29  
Chyula said: »
why we stacking on NTE gears instead of increase casting dmg gear? gil are so easy to come by I don't see why I'm even bother with saving a few gil to sacrfic dmg out put. 250-300 spells cast is nothing when 1 metal worth more than 5 stacks of Uni tools. Stacking NTE is like why spend millions on melee gear when you have Perle and Pink for free.
I don't know what to tell you, i'm going to have builds for each type each kind of ninjutsu. fast cast and utsusemi -casting time gear for utsusemi, mab and and elemental ninjutsu bonus dmg gear and for enfeebles. I know I can improve that but honestly I burned my NIN from 50 to 99. So I need to skill up ninjutsu badly and I figured the ninja tool expertise would be the way to go for skilling up and I plan to do it for VW too. I can tell you think like I do about different builds but you're assuming that we think ninja tool expertise is the end all to ninjutsu builds.
 Quetzalcoatl.Mitosis
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By Quetzalcoatl.Mitosis 2012-01-09 13:26:26  
Sorry for the useless post, but Leviathan.Dreamx, I can't stop watching your avi
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 Bismarck.Ruizutatakau
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By Bismarck.Ruizutatakau 2012-01-09 16:56:47  
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »
Cap may be close to, if not 100%. Whenever I am asked to go NIN for VW procs, I count my uni-tools before hand, typically over 8-12 fights in the night, I only use 20 or so, and I will cast 250-300 spells per night, equipping Af2 hands, oiriandori, keeping Yonin up, and 4/5 on merits. I'll parse a run later this week to try to get an exact number.

On thing I would also like to know, for gear swaps. At what point does and NTE gear need to be equipped for it to proc. is it precast, then able to swap out before the spell goes off, or does the gear have to be equipped at the end of casting.
Thanks, I look forward to your parse.
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By Chyula 2012-01-09 19:20:25  
Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Chyula said: »
why we stacking on NTE gears instead of increase casting dmg gear? gil are so easy to come by I don't see why I'm even bother with saving a few gil to sacrfic dmg out put. 250-300 spells cast is nothing when 1 metal worth more than 5 stacks of Uni tools. Stacking NTE is like why spend millions on melee gear when you have Perle and Pink for free.
because utsusemi, tonko, monomi, migawari, aisha, yurin, dokumori, kurayami, jubaku, hojo all do damage right?

so now we want NTE instead haste gear when casting those that matter in that group of spells?
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By Chyula 2012-01-09 19:25:00  
My point is NTE is uesless if you have no problem with spending a small amount of gil. I don't sacrific haste,mab,increase ninjetsu dmg just for saving a few gil in any situation, not to mention you wasting 5/5 merit on that category instead completing the wheel for optimal dmg.
 Leviathan.Phenomena
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By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-01-09 19:32:21  
Chyula said: »
My point is NTE is uesless if you have no problem with spending a small amount of gil. I don't sacrific haste,mab,increase ninjetsu dmg just for saving a few gil in any situation, not to mention you wasting 5/5 merit on that category instead completing the wheel for optimal dmg.

4/5 still allows you to complete the wheel.

Edit: also the only piece i swap out is my koga hands+2 which gives +4 haste.

only other pieces i know are are sash (5%) but not really worth it. and oirandori. which i dont know the NTE% on that.
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 Fenrir.Leoheart
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By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-01-09 19:40:43  
Even with 4/5 merits there's a noticeable difference.
Anything extra you can throw in a set whilst maintaining haste and fast cast is a nice bonus.
NTE is not useless at all, it is in fact one of ninjas better traits; I've walked out of many dangerous fights with just 1 shihei left in the stack.
The amount of times I've taken a lot of damage in a few fights is when I'm rushing to crack open another tool bag mid-fight, NTE is able to mitigate that situation quite often.

I know it's a piss poor justification, but it definitely helps and contributes in its own way.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Lishje
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By Quetzalcoatl.Lishje 2012-01-09 19:43:36  
Just really depends on your play style, if you don't nuke outside of procing its a good idea to have 4/5 Ninja tool expertise.

I enjoy my 5/5 Hyoton though, and Koga tekko +2 come with haste and a large amount of NTE <3
 Carbuncle.Axle
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By Carbuncle.Axle 2012-01-11 19:33:30  
So i did some minor testing.


Spry have +3 NTE on them
Yonin full time.
5/5 NTE merits.

Only did 110 casts.
Burnt 16 tools.

So looking at a 14.5% loss rate with my NTE set.

Could be they have a cap of 87.5% on it.
It is also possible that most gear percentages are just made up.

I know the test sample is small.
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 Fenrir.Minjo
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By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-01-11 20:24:07  
Chyula said: »
My point is NTE is uesless if you have no problem with spending a small amount of gil. I don't sacrific haste,mab,increase ninjetsu dmg just for saving a few gil in any situation, not to mention you wasting 5/5 merit on that category instead completing the wheel for optimal dmg.

So your account is perfect, then? Because every dime you spend on a tool could be going to some greater upgrade.
 Asura.Mekaider
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By Asura.Mekaider 2012-01-11 20:38:48  
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
Chyula said: »
My point is NTE is uesless if you have no problem with spending a small amount of gil. I don't sacrific haste,mab,increase ninjetsu dmg just for saving a few gil in any situation, not to mention you wasting 5/5 merit on that category instead completing the wheel for optimal dmg.

So your account is perfect, then? Because every dime you spend on a tool could be going to some greater upgrade.

Please, do yourself a favour and just ignore Chyula.

The greater majority of Asura server, including myself, have he/she/it blacklisted.
 Bismarck.Ruizutatakau
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By Bismarck.Ruizutatakau 2012-01-11 21:05:08  
Carbuncle.Axle said: »
So i did some minor testing.


Spry have +3 NTE on them
Yonin full time.
5/5 NTE merits.

Only did 110 casts.
Burnt 16 tools.

So looking at a 14.5% loss rate with my NTE set.

Could be they have a cap of 87.5% on it.
It is also possible that most gear percentages are just made up.

I know the test sample is small.
Thanks! Its very appreciated I want to do testing but before I do I would like max NTE gear and the hands wont drop in Xarc for me. I'm still looking forward to that parse by Snprphnx here in Bosmorck.
 Siren.Kunimatsu
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By Siren.Kunimatsu 2012-01-11 21:06:53  
Carbuncle.Axle said: »
So i did some minor testing.


Spry have +3 NTE on them
Yonin full time.
5/5 NTE merits.

Only did 110 casts.
Burnt 16 tools.

So looking at a 14.5% loss rate with my NTE set.

Could be they have a cap of 87.5% on it.
It is also possible that most gear percentages are just made up.

I know the test sample is small.

Just a thought, but maybe some NTE doesn't stack with another.

I'm betting it's a % cap though, there's no way SE would allow 100% NTE, you would only need 1 of each tool and they would last forever.
 Pandemonium.Anookulchandra
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By Pandemonium.Anookulchandra 2012-01-11 21:09:35  
Chyula said: »
Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Chyula said: »
why we stacking on NTE gears instead of increase casting dmg gear? gil are so easy to come by I don't see why I'm even bother with saving a few gil to sacrfic dmg out put. 250-300 spells cast is nothing when 1 metal worth more than 5 stacks of Uni tools. Stacking NTE is like why spend millions on melee gear when you have Perle and Pink for free.
because utsusemi, tonko, monomi, migawari, aisha, yurin, dokumori, kurayami, jubaku, hojo all do damage right?

so now we want NTE instead haste gear when casting those that matter in that group of spells?

chyula you so funny but Ik your ways. Either way yeah it's a great precast if it's like conserve mp. Fit it in where can where you can't fit fast cast or ninjutsu spell casting gear (Lol all of what? 1 or 2 pieces?)

*edit then end in haste and what have you
 
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 Quetzalcoatl.Generic
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By Quetzalcoatl.Generic 2012-01-11 22:09:44  
Anyone know how much NTE you can get on Black Mantle ?
 Asura.Hotsoups
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-01-11 23:39:48  
Stupid question, does precasting NTE equipment work? I suppose I'll test it out later myself.

Okay each person approaches this game differently. I do respect this, but I truly feel that 4/5-5/5 NTE merits is wasted on your NIN. Unless these numbers are made up, you get 30 ish % NTE from Kogga Tekko and another 20 ish % NTE from using Yonin. If you can pre-cast NTE equipment you can easily add another 10%. Using Oirandori, the new NTE augment on Koga tekko +2 adds even more.

At this point you are already riding that stack of tools almost twice as long if not more! Yonin obviously isn't going to be up full time. But still!

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: Stop penny pinchin' and merit a san spell 5/5 like a boss! <3
 Quetzalcoatl.Generic
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By Quetzalcoatl.Generic 2012-01-11 23:45:19  
No NTE is endcast onry
 Bismarck.Ruizutatakau
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By Bismarck.Ruizutatakau 2012-01-11 23:50:19  
Asura.Hotsoups said: »
Stupid question, does precasting NTE equipment work? I suppose I'll test it out later myself.

Okay each person approaches this game differently. I do respect this, but I truly feel that 4/5-5/5 NTE merits is wasted on your NIN. Unless these numbers are made up, you get 30 ish % NTE from Kogga Tekko and another 20 ish % NTE from using Yonin. If you can pre-cast NTE equipment you can easily add another 10%. Using Oirandori, the new NTE augment on Koga tekko +2 adds even more.

At this point you are already riding that stack of tools almost twice as long if not more! Yonin obviously isn't going to be up full time. But still!

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: Stop penny pinchin' and merit a san spell 5/5 like a boss! <3
I don't know if it works or not and I wont even say anything about the 'penny pinchin'. Especially when it comes to Group 2 merits on NIN and VW. I started the thread out of curiosity and not because I plan on using NTE gear 24/7 or cause I'm cheap. I appreciate any testing anyone is willing to share.
 Bismarck.Ruizutatakau
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By Bismarck.Ruizutatakau 2012-01-11 23:50:35  
Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: »
No NTE is endcast onry
That answers that.
 Asura.Hotsoups
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-01-12 00:13:28  
Out of curiosity, does anyone know the specifics with the "Enh. Ninja tool expertise effect" augment on the Koga tekko +2? I believe I will have the trial finished by this weekend and can test it.
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