I've been seeing more Kikoku around (Surprisingly) and just got some cool things for my Metsu set. Was wondering if anyone had any improvements for my Metsu set. Thanks in advance.
Metsu
Metsu
i think gorget would beat ire torque +1 on that ws
Atheling Mantle, Bomb Core, Centaurus + Brutal, gorget
How does ftp help Metsu at all :/ Just wondering. Relic WS don't have dmg multipliers from TP unfortunately ; ;
Asura.Haxetc said: »
How does ftp help Metsu at all :/ Just wondering. Relic WS don't have dmg multipliers from TP unfortunately ; ;
While relic ftp doesn't varie with tp, gorget/ele belt always add about 0.1 each wich add damage.
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Asura.Haxetc said: »
I've been seeing more Kikoku around (Surprisingly) and just got some cool things for my Metsu set. Was wondering if anyone had any improvements for my Metsu set. Thanks in advance.
Equiping Kikoku in the main hand would help Metsu the most. Therefore allowing you to actually use the ws ^-^;
You need to get both the Elemental Gorget and Belt to improve your damage on Metsu. Also consider using: Epona's Ring and Brutal Earring.
A better off hand weapon would also further improve your Metsu damage.
Mayhaps considering the DA+% Katana and or an OAT Katana for spam.
Ragnarok.Amador said: »
Asura.Haxetc said: »
I've been seeing more Kikoku around (Surprisingly) and just got some cool things for my Metsu set. Was wondering if anyone had any improvements for my Metsu set. Thanks in advance.
Equiping Kikoku in the main hand would help Metsu the most. Therefore allowing you to actually use the ws ^-^;
You need to get both the Elemental Gorget and Belt for improve your damage on Metsu. Also consider using: Epona's Ring and Brutal Earring.
A better off hand weapon would also further improve your Metsu damage.
Mayhaps considering the DA+% Katana and or an OAT Katana for spam.
Wouldn't the OAX weapons ruin the delay for Kikoku/Kannagi? (They have some pretty high delay compared to other options.)
Ragnarok.Amador said: »
Equiping Kikoku in the main hand would help Metsu the most. Therefore allowing you to actually use the ws ^-^;
Item sets randomly assign sides to main and offhand when dual-wielding weapons, as well as earrings and rings. Most people can try for hours and hours to put one weapon on one specific hand, to no avail, so most people just post the sets as-is, assuming that people know what will be going in the mainhand.
And for people (see: You) to nitpick about obvious things like that highly discredits them (You) as a source of information
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Also to help affirm what I just said:
lol'd
Ragnarok.Amador said: »
Mayhaps considering the DA+% Katana and or an OAT Katana for spam.
For not knowing a completely isolated system of math, used exclusively for a single video game, you are completely stupid. Yes, that about sums it up.
Kannagi would be irrelevant since the off hand for that will forever be Kamome, until something better comes out.
As for Kikoku, since your options are really expanded upon by not being bound by a Kamome you can explore other options. While the delays are fairly high for the OAT and DA+% with appropriate gear can be the difference between one extra turn or not to get another Metsu off.
Regardless of the extra bit of delay, Enchu +2 is a ridiculous source of TP gain, the greater delay will also bring you closer to a lower hit build. The idea of DA+% was focused on the idea of increasing Metsu damage exclusively. It wasn't meant for a dps situation. So it can be completely written off on that end.
Enchu +2-3 is still a very viable option.
As for Kikoku, since your options are really expanded upon by not being bound by a Kamome you can explore other options. While the delays are fairly high for the OAT and DA+% with appropriate gear can be the difference between one extra turn or not to get another Metsu off.
Regardless of the extra bit of delay, Enchu +2 is a ridiculous source of TP gain, the greater delay will also bring you closer to a lower hit build. The idea of DA+% was focused on the idea of increasing Metsu damage exclusively. It wasn't meant for a dps situation. So it can be completely written off on that end.
Enchu +2-3 is still a very viable option.
Ragnarok.Amador said: »
Kannagi would be irrelevant since the off hand for that will forever be Kamome, until something better comes out.
As for Kikoku, since your options are really expanded upon by not being bound by a Kamome you can explore other options. While the delays are fairly high for the OAT and DA+% with appropriate gear can be the difference between one extra turn or not to get another Metsu off.
Regardless of the extra bit of delay, Enchu +2 is a ridiculous source of TP gain, the greater delay will also bring you closer to a lower hit build. The idea of DA+% was focused on the idea of increasing Metsu damage exclusively. It wasn't meant for a dps situation. So it can be completely written off on that end.
Enchu +2-3 is still a very viable option.
As for Kikoku, since your options are really expanded upon by not being bound by a Kamome you can explore other options. While the delays are fairly high for the OAT and DA+% with appropriate gear can be the difference between one extra turn or not to get another Metsu off.
Regardless of the extra bit of delay, Enchu +2 is a ridiculous source of TP gain, the greater delay will also bring you closer to a lower hit build. The idea of DA+% was focused on the idea of increasing Metsu damage exclusively. It wasn't meant for a dps situation. So it can be completely written off on that end.
Enchu +2-3 is still a very viable option.
And pretty sure someone mathed out that OAX and DA+% Katanas offer less overall ws due to the increased delay vs. the average round proc you'd get from the weapon.
Ragnarok.Amador said: »
Kannagi would be irrelevant since the off hand for that will forever be Kamome, until something better comes out.
As for Kikoku, since your options are really expanded upon by not being bound by a Kamome you can explore other options. While the delays are fairly high for the OAT and DA+% with appropriate gear can be the difference between one extra turn or not to get another Metsu off.
Regardless of the extra bit of delay, Enchu +2 is a ridiculous source of TP gain, the greater delay will also bring you closer to a lower hit build. The idea of DA+% was focused on the idea of increasing Metsu damage exclusively. It wasn't meant for a dps situation. So it can be completely written off on that end.
Enchu +2-3 is still a very viable option.
As for Kikoku, since your options are really expanded upon by not being bound by a Kamome you can explore other options. While the delays are fairly high for the OAT and DA+% with appropriate gear can be the difference between one extra turn or not to get another Metsu off.
Regardless of the extra bit of delay, Enchu +2 is a ridiculous source of TP gain, the greater delay will also bring you closer to a lower hit build. The idea of DA+% was focused on the idea of increasing Metsu damage exclusively. It wasn't meant for a dps situation. So it can be completely written off on that end.
Enchu +2-3 is still a very viable option.
It's not
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Simulate... let's say 10000 units of delay. Ignore haste and DW, they're a constant multiplier so they'll affect both equally here.
Kannagi/Sekka has a total 411 delay, Kannagi/Enchu has 452 delay. Let's only assume Brutal Earring for DA.
10000/411=24.3309002 rounds
10000/452=22.1238938 rounds
Add Brutal Earring and Enchu DA.
24.3309002*1.05=25.5474452 hits/hand in this timeframe, so that many hits for Kannagi
22.1238938*1.15=25.4424779
A small advantage for /Sekka, but an advantage nonetheless. Adding more DA gives /Sekka a further advantage. For instance, add Atheling Mantle, Twilight Belt, and /WAR:
24.3309002*1.2=29.1970802
22.1238938*1.3=28.7610619
See how the difference has increased?
Now, there's a further consideration:
This graph depicts speed of TP gain per unit time for various delays. Notice how TP gain begins to increase dramatically below 180 delay/hand. Now, DW is factored into TP gain, and NIN obviously has a lot of DW. Not only is the /Sekka setup swinging faster, it's going to gain TP at an increased rate as well. Factor in the fact that some of DW Enchu's TP gain will be overflow (exceed 100 TP within a given attack round) and the gap in WS frequency increases again.
Kannagi/Sekka has a total 411 delay, Kannagi/Enchu has 452 delay. Let's only assume Brutal Earring for DA.
10000/411=24.3309002 rounds
10000/452=22.1238938 rounds
Add Brutal Earring and Enchu DA.
24.3309002*1.05=25.5474452 hits/hand in this timeframe, so that many hits for Kannagi
22.1238938*1.15=25.4424779
A small advantage for /Sekka, but an advantage nonetheless. Adding more DA gives /Sekka a further advantage. For instance, add Atheling Mantle, Twilight Belt, and /WAR:
24.3309002*1.2=29.1970802
22.1238938*1.3=28.7610619
See how the difference has increased?
Now, there's a further consideration:
This graph depicts speed of TP gain per unit time for various delays. Notice how TP gain begins to increase dramatically below 180 delay/hand. Now, DW is factored into TP gain, and NIN obviously has a lot of DW. Not only is the /Sekka setup swinging faster, it's going to gain TP at an increased rate as well. Factor in the fact that some of DW Enchu's TP gain will be overflow (exceed 100 TP within a given attack round) and the gap in WS frequency increases again.
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That's nice, few questions about that graph though...
Why the multiplier when brutal earring is added, 1.15 for Enchu+2? Should that not be a lot higher due to it's actual OAT chance? It's definitely a lot higher than 15%.
Secondly, with that in mind, it's obvious lower delay is going to win on a delay vs delay graph... granted.
Going back to the DA addition part, he states: Add WAR sub, (10%, Atheling and Twilight, 5%, Brutal assumed 5% 1.20 for Kannagi. Okay. Then again with the Enchu+2... 1.30. Why?
This seems to completely ignore the activation rate of OAT doesn't it?
Why the multiplier when brutal earring is added, 1.15 for Enchu+2? Should that not be a lot higher due to it's actual OAT chance? It's definitely a lot higher than 15%.
Secondly, with that in mind, it's obvious lower delay is going to win on a delay vs delay graph... granted.
Going back to the DA addition part, he states: Add WAR sub, (10%, Atheling and Twilight, 5%, Brutal assumed 5% 1.20 for Kannagi. Okay. Then again with the Enchu+2... 1.30. Why?
This seems to completely ignore the activation rate of OAT doesn't it?
Ragnarok.Amador said: »
That's nice, few questions about that graph though...
Why the multiplier when brutal earring is added, 1.15 for Enchu+2? Should that not be a lot higher due to it's actual OAT chance? It's definitely a lot higher than 15%.
Secondly, with that in mind, it's obvious lower delay is going to win on a delay vs delay graph... granted.
Going back to the DA addition part, he states: Add WAR sub, (10%, Atheling and Twilight, 5%, Brutal assumed 5% 1.20 for Kannagi. Okay. Then again with the Enchu+2... 1.30. Why?
This seems to completely ignore the activation rate of OAT doesn't it?
Why the multiplier when brutal earring is added, 1.15 for Enchu+2? Should that not be a lot higher due to it's actual OAT chance? It's definitely a lot higher than 15%.
Secondly, with that in mind, it's obvious lower delay is going to win on a delay vs delay graph... granted.
Going back to the DA addition part, he states: Add WAR sub, (10%, Atheling and Twilight, 5%, Brutal assumed 5% 1.20 for Kannagi. Okay. Then again with the Enchu+2... 1.30. Why?
This seems to completely ignore the activation rate of OAT doesn't it?
^ gives 10%DA or .1
.05 from brutal +.1 from Enchu = 1.15
unless you are debating a different Enchu...
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Ragnarok.Amador said: »
That's nice, few questions about that graph though...
Why the multiplier when brutal earring is added, 1.15 for Enchu+2? Should that not be a lot higher due to it's actual OAT chance? It's definitely a lot higher than 15%.
Why the multiplier when brutal earring is added, 1.15 for Enchu+2? Should that not be a lot higher due to it's actual OAT chance? It's definitely a lot higher than 15%.
Now for something completely different
Ragnarok.Amador said: »
Secondly, with that in mind, it's obvious lower delay is going to win on a delay vs delay graph... granted.
Going back to the DA addition part, he states: Add WAR sub, (10%, Atheling and Twilight, 5%, Brutal assumed 5% 1.20 for Kannagi. Okay. Then again with the Enchu+2... 1.30. Why?
Going back to the DA addition part, he states: Add WAR sub, (10%, Atheling and Twilight, 5%, Brutal assumed 5% 1.20 for Kannagi. Okay. Then again with the Enchu+2... 1.30. Why?
If you want to argue the use of the OAT or the OA2-4 katana you're just going to get even worse results, due to diminishing returns, shitty proc rate, not influencing weapon skill damage, even lower base damage etc. etc.
I honestly expected you to read a couple other posts in that thread, but it seems it requires a formal request other than providing you with a hyperlink.
The thread provided essentially mathematically proves there is no place for an Enchu at the current point in time, its only purpose is for DoT, and other weapons succeed in one-upping it. For any purpose other than DoT, a variety of other offhand weapons would be used such as Sekka +2s, Oirandori, so on and so forth.
Please don't come in here swinging eyeball logic though, we do have .jpgs for that sort of thing
Carbuncle.Wulfshadow said: »
Please don't come in here swinging eyeball logic though, we do have .jpgs for that sort of thing
I was debating OAT Enchu +2 *.*;
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That picture is *** brilliant.
Ragnarok.Amador said: »
I was debating OAT Enchu +2 *.*;
Relatively bad proc rate
No influence on WS damage
Worse base DMG
Terrible delay
Diminishing returns
Before you inevitably cry why, please look at the previously mentioned thread or the millions of other discussions on offhand katanas instead of making us do the work for you.
That being said I'm headed to bed
someone take it from here :(
That's the only version of that meme that made me literally LOL
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[+]
I actually did read it.
That post had nothing in relation to the OAT, which has a lot higher damage than the OAT-4x Enchu
I understand the idea of why OAT-4x is a bit lack luster due to a low % chance to actually hit a 4 hit and or 3 hit. As well as the dreadfully low damage.
OAT has more damage, a higher proc rate to hit that OAT. Which is why I stated and mentioned it.
That post had nothing in relation to the OAT, which has a lot higher damage than the OAT-4x Enchu
I understand the idea of why OAT-4x is a bit lack luster due to a low % chance to actually hit a 4 hit and or 3 hit. As well as the dreadfully low damage.
OAT has more damage, a higher proc rate to hit that OAT. Which is why I stated and mentioned it.
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