Why Have Cure Clogs Sky Rocketed?

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2010-06-21
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Why have Cure Clogs sky rocketed?
 Asura.Karbuncle
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By Asura.Karbuncle 2011-01-26 19:33:03  
Cerberus.Vraelia said:
Asura.Ludoggy said:
More people leveling whm.
More demand.

That may be true about others leveling WHM now. But the second is incorrect.
More demand = Less money required for a certain item.
Less demand = higher cost rate.

A little knowledge for you in the economic world.

Low supply = Higher Cost, People want the item, But theres very few of it, Those selling can sell for prices they want.

Low Demand = Less Sales, People under-cut = Less Price.
You're getting Supply/Demand mixed up.
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 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2011-01-26 19:35:37  
Cerberus.Vraelia said:
Asura.Ludoggy said:
More people leveling whm. More demand.
That may be true about others leveling WHM now. But the second is incorrect. More demand = Less money required for a certain item. Less demand = higher cost rate. A little knowledge for you in the economic world.
You seem to have forgotten about the supply side of the equation. More demand is only cheaper if you have relatively unlimited supply or if producing in bulk results in savings. In this case supply is pretty much same or even lower than it used to be so more demand = higher prices.
 Cerberus.Ciecle
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By Cerberus.Ciecle 2011-01-26 19:36:34  
Cerberus.Vraelia said:
Asura.Ludoggy said:
More people leveling whm.
More demand.

That may be true about others leveling WHM now. But the second is incorrect.
More demand = Less money required for a certain item.
Less demand = higher cost rate.

A little knowledge for you in the economic world.


If you look at a Supply demand curve,

Less supply + more demand = higher prices(Cant get the item in fast enough so higher prices to slow down the demand for said item)

more supply + less demand = lower prices(to move the item you lower the price.)

Equal supply + equal demand = Equilibrium.

edit: to go further on what I stated:

The supply for Cure clogs hasn't changed, but the amount demanded has increased. So your demand curve has moved to the right of your NORMAL demand curve, raising the prices. If supply had increased, but not the demand(A sudden surge of people selling them off) the price would fall. Meaning your supply curve has shifted to the right of it's normal. Should less people farm them, the price would increase further, due to the demand still remaining high and supply falling even further, thus moving your supply curve to the left.

And i don't have pretty pictures to explain it either so :<

Basically: While Supply remains constant and Demand increases, prices rise, Should supply rise while demand remains constant the prices will fall, Should they both rise at the same time, the prices will remain constant(or in most cases prices will rise a little bit).
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 Siren.Flannelman
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By Siren.Flannelman 2011-01-26 19:43:22  
youre reading the demand curve wrong, demand decreases when quantity increases, not price. high demand = high price
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 Diabolos.Mmbacon
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By Diabolos.Mmbacon 2011-01-26 20:13:07  
Cerberus.Ciecle said:
Cerberus.Vraelia said:
Asura.Ludoggy said:
More people leveling whm.
More demand.

That may be true about others leveling WHM now. But the second is incorrect.
More demand = Less money required for a certain item.
Less demand = higher cost rate.

A little knowledge for you in the economic world.


If you look at a Supply demand curve,

Less supply + more demand = higher prices(Cant get the item in fast enough so higher prices to slow down the demand for said item)

more supply + less demand = lower prices(to move the item you lower the price.)

Equal supply + equal demand = Equilibrium.

edit: to go further on what I stated:

The supply for Cure clogs hasn't changed, but the amount demanded has increased. So your demand curve has moved to the right of your NORMAL demand curve, raising the prices. If supply had increased, but not the demand(A sudden surge of people selling them off) the price would fall. Meaning your supply curve has shifted to the right of it's normal. Should less people farm them, the price would increase further, due to the demand still remaining high and supply falling even further, thus moving your supply curve to the left.

And i don't have pretty pictures to explain it either so :<

Basically: While Supply remains constant and Demand increases, prices rise, Should supply rise while demand remains constant the prices will fall, Should they both rise at the same time, the prices will remain constant(or in most cases prices will rise a little bit).

1) If you don't have basic knowledge of what was just stated. Derp.
2) That could have been explained much more simply.
 Cerberus.Ciecle
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By Cerberus.Ciecle 2011-01-26 20:24:37  
I tried to explain it in much simpler terms... Lol it's not a difficult concept to understand though.(at least I never thought it to be. >.>...)

 Diabolos.Mmbacon
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By Diabolos.Mmbacon 2011-01-26 20:26:50  
Cerberus.Ciecle said:
I tried to explain it in much simpler terms... Lol it's not a difficult concept to understand though.(at least I never thought it to be. >.>...)


Tis' True enough :D

The fact that you took the time to explain it is actually more admirable. ^^
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By Sambb 2011-01-27 06:35:21  
Diabolos.Mmbacon said:
Cerberus.Ciecle said:
Cerberus.Vraelia said:
Asura.Ludoggy said:
More people leveling whm. More demand.
That may be true about others leveling WHM now. But the second is incorrect. More demand = Less money required for a certain item. Less demand = higher cost rate. A little knowledge for you in the economic world.
If you look at a Supply demand curve, Less supply + more demand = higher prices(Cant get the item in fast enough so higher prices to slow down the demand for said item) more supply + less demand = lower prices(to move the item you lower the price.) Equal supply + equal demand = Equilibrium. edit: to go further on what I stated: The supply for Cure clogs hasn't changed, but the amount demanded has increased. So your demand curve has moved to the right of your NORMAL demand curve, raising the prices. If supply had increased, but not the demand(A sudden surge of people selling them off) the price would fall. Meaning your supply curve has shifted to the right of it's normal. Should less people farm them, the price would increase further, due to the demand still remaining high and supply falling even further, thus moving your supply curve to the left. And i don't have pretty pictures to explain it either so :< Basically: While Supply remains constant and Demand increases, prices rise, Should supply rise while demand remains constant the prices will fall, Should they both rise at the same time, the prices will remain constant(or in most cases prices will rise a little bit).
1) If you don't have basic knowledge of what was just stated. Derp. 2) That could have been explained much more simply.

This in basic economic terms is an accurate description of the price increase... those of you who fail to understand this need to go learn it end of.
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 Ragnarok.Erikthecleric
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By Ragnarok.Erikthecleric 2011-01-27 07:26:00  
Asura.Pergatory said:
They are literally different stats, meaning each one has its own cap and you can use them in combination to exceed the cap of one stat by itself.

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Asura.Pergatory said:
It's similar to how you can use Dual Wield enhancements to speed yourself up more even after reaching the 25% haste cap for equipment.

I'm not gonna say that I know for certain about Fast Cast and Healing cast-, but I can say for certain that DW and Haste /do/ have a cap together (80% delay reduction max), so stating that Fast Cast and Healing cast could be capped at 50% would not be outlandish. I however have no experience with using FC + HC- gear, other then what I use with my friends character, and have not tested if there was a cap or what it could be...

I however did think that there was a -50% casting/recast delay max though, using BRD with Troub/night (-25% together) + /RDM (-15%) + casting- gear: minstrel -25%, Yigit -10% at the time. Which would end up being -75% assuming night/troub was last to be applied and it would go off at roughly 35% (eyeballing but easy to tell 25% and 35%). This is taking into account that normal songs also go off at around 85-90% as well. Even assuming I capped song recast @ 50%, that would be roughly 65% casting time with both, and the natural few % early song casting should make that earlier then 35% by a decent margin I'd believe. I wouldn't know how to test this for certain though T-T...
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 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2011-01-27 10:54:26  
Ragnarok.Erikthecleric said:
I'm not gonna say that I know for certain about Fast Cast and Healing cast-, but I can say for certain that DW and Haste /do/ have a cap together (80% delay reduction max)
I was not aware that DW counted toward that 80% cap, interesting.

Ragnarok.Erikthecleric said:
so stating that Fast Cast and Healing cast could be capped at 50% would not be outlandish.
It's at least 75% combined, because when I use Celerity my spells finish at about 24%. Celerity maxes Fast Cast at 50% so my Cure Cast and/or Healing Cast must take me the rest of the way.

There's also been extensive testing on Alla about cure cast that showed someone was using a stopwatch to time these things and showed they were able to get something like 57% cast time reduction on Curagas. This was before a lot of the new fast cast items like Orison Pantaloons/Locket, Veela Cape, etc. That's why they couldn't get it much beyond 50%.
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By AlkalineJoe 2011-01-27 12:07:05  
Asura.Pergatory said:
Ragnarok.Erikthecleric said:
I'm not gonna say that I know for certain about Fast Cast and Healing cast-, but I can say for certain that DW and Haste /do/ have a cap together (80% delay reduction max)
I was not aware that DW counted toward that 80% cap, interesting.

Ragnarok.Erikthecleric said:
so stating that Fast Cast and Healing cast could be capped at 50% would not be outlandish.
It's at least 75% combined, because when I use Celerity my spells finish at about 24%. Celerity maxes Fast Cast at 50% so my Cure Cast and/or Healing Cast must take me the rest of the way.

There's also been extensive testing on Alla about cure cast that showed someone was using a stopwatch to time these things and showed they were able to get something like 57% cast time reduction on Curagas. This was before a lot of the new fast cast items like Orison Pantaloons/Locket, Veela Cape, etc. That's why they couldn't get it much beyond 50%.
Celerity takes off a straight 60%(It includes Light Arts reduction) and whatever time remaining the Fast Cast in Gear procs. So if you cast a 10 second spell with Celerity, it would initially take off 6 seconds then say you have 50% in gear, it would be reduced to 2 seconds.

Edit: What i'm trying to say is that Celerity does not count towards the Fast Cast cap.
 Ragnarok.Erikthecleric
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By Ragnarok.Erikthecleric 2011-01-29 07:36:59  
Asura.Pergatory said:
Ragnarok.Erikthecleric said:
I'm not gonna say that I know for certain about Fast Cast and Healing cast-, but I can say for certain that DW and Haste /do/ have a cap together (80% delay reduction max)
I was not aware that DW counted toward that 80% cap, interesting.

Ragnarok.Erikthecleric said:
so stating that Fast Cast and Healing cast could be capped at 50% would not be outlandish.
It's at least 75% combined, because when I use Celerity my spells finish at about 24%. Celerity maxes Fast Cast at 50% so my Cure Cast and/or Healing Cast must take me the rest of the way.

There's also been extensive testing on Alla about cure cast that showed someone was using a stopwatch to time these things and showed they were able to get something like 57% cast time reduction on Curagas. This was before a lot of the new fast cast items like Orison Pantaloons/Locket, Veela Cape, etc. That's why they couldn't get it much beyond 50%.

I just -eyeball- tested that cure spells are just like how I described that songs go off a few % earlier than 100%. With AF3+1, Orison Locket, and Locquacious, my spells went off at around 65-70% (trying to peg a better %). Without them it was 70-75%. I'm almost positive that the % difference im talking about, is how long the animation of said spell lasts on the character (assuming 30% is equivilant to how long the animation plays). I believe this applies to spells with casting- minus. This is why I find it hard to exactly say what the cap is.

I'm very lazy when it comes to actually pinning down exact % and such, but assuming celerity + 10% light arts + gear + this automatical natural -% would make it a lot lower then what you were saying you saw it to be.

Testing done as WHM/BLM btw.
 Ramuh.Lorzy
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By Ramuh.Lorzy 2011-01-29 15:52:00  
Asura.Pergatory said:
Ragnarok.Erikthecleric said:
I'm not gonna say that I know for certain about Fast Cast and Healing cast-, but I can say for certain that DW and Haste /do/ have a cap together (80% delay reduction max)
I was not aware that DW counted toward that 80% cap, interesting.

Ragnarok.Erikthecleric said:
so stating that Fast Cast and Healing cast could be capped at 50% would not be outlandish.
It's at least 75% combined, because when I use Celerity my spells finish at about 24%. Celerity maxes Fast Cast at 50% so my Cure Cast and/or Healing Cast must take me the rest of the way.

There's also been extensive testing on Alla about cure cast that showed someone was using a stopwatch to time these things and showed they were able to get something like 57% cast time reduction on Curagas. This was before a lot of the new fast cast items like Orison Pantaloons/Locket, Veela Cape, etc. That's why they couldn't get it much beyond 50%.

does celerity actually count towards fast cast for casting time? it's not strictly fast cast because of the 1:1 as opposed to 2:1 for cast time:recast.
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2011-01-31 10:49:15  
AlkalineJoe said:
Celerity takes off a straight 60%(It includes Light Arts reduction) and whatever time remaining the Fast Cast in Gear procs. So if you cast a 10 second spell with Celerity, it would initially take off 6 seconds then say you have 50% in gear, it would be reduced to 2 seconds.

Edit: What i'm trying to say is that Celerity does not count towards the Fast Cast cap.
Source? Or reason for thinking this?

Everything I've ever seen or heard or tested tends to indicate Celerity does not stack with Fast Cast gear, nor does it stack with Light Arts' base 10% fast cast.
 Leviathan.Alkalinejoe
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By Leviathan.Alkalinejoe 2011-01-31 10:55:28  
Asura.Pergatory said:
AlkalineJoe said:
Celerity takes off a straight 60%(It includes Light Arts reduction) and whatever time remaining the Fast Cast in Gear procs. So if you cast a 10 second spell with Celerity, it would initially take off 6 seconds then say you have 50% in gear, it would be reduced to 2 seconds.

Edit: What i'm trying to say is that Celerity does not count towards the Fast Cast cap.
Source? Or reason for thinking this?

Everything I've ever seen or heard or tested tends to indicate Celerity does not stack with Fast Cast gear, nor does it stack with Light Arts' base 10% fast cast.
Tested this myself with Stoneskin in Ru'lude while being bored. Wiki agrees with me as well. I also noticed what it says about recast timers is true, 50% recast is the cap regardless of Celerity.
 Quetzalcoatl.Elysien
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By Quetzalcoatl.Elysien 2011-02-07 18:00:59  
Leviathan.Alkalinejoe said:
Asura.Pergatory said:
AlkalineJoe said:
Celerity takes off a straight 60%(It includes Light Arts reduction) and whatever time remaining the Fast Cast in Gear procs. So if you cast a 10 second spell with Celerity, it would initially take off 6 seconds then say you have 50% in gear, it would be reduced to 2 seconds.

Edit: What i'm trying to say is that Celerity does not count towards the Fast Cast cap.
Source? Or reason for thinking this?

Everything I've ever seen or heard or tested tends to indicate Celerity does not stack with Fast Cast gear, nor does it stack with Light Arts' base 10% fast cast.
Tested this myself with Stoneskin in Ru'lude while being bored. Wiki agrees with me as well. I also noticed what it says about recast timers is true, 50% recast is the cap regardless of Celerity.

this is mainly correct, except celerity nulls light arts so it'd only be 50% and the actual light arts fast cast is calculated differently than the actual fast cast gear/traits (also not counted towards the 50% cast cap.) any stratagem nulls the arts (at least for /sch sub) can test by using penury and noticing the original mp cost of spells, not the arts spell cost
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