Caps To WHM Spell Casting

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2010-06-21
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Caps to WHM spell casting
 Ragnarok.Blindphleb
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2011-01-02 16:05:21  
Hi Whm forum, I recently picked up an alt whm character and had some questions relating to caps to spell cast times etc.

I know that recast times are capped at -50% recast. My question is in regards to casting time. Is there a cap to how much you can reduce your cast times? If so, what is it? Does "enhance fast cast" gear and "Cure spell casting time -x%" gear both contribute to the cap?

Thanks in advance.
 
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 Sylph.Hitetsu
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By Sylph.Hitetsu 2011-01-02 17:14:20  
I'm 99% sure that Casting time is capped at -50% also, but I'm not 100% sure.
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 Fenrir.Terminus
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By Fenrir.Terminus 2011-01-02 17:50:55  
Sylph.Hitetsu said:
I'm 99% sure that Casting time is capped at -50% also, but I'm not 100% sure.

So you're saying your certainty is capped at 99%? That's pretty good.
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 Ragnarok.Blindphleb
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2011-01-02 21:45:17  
In another thread:

Fenrir.Snick said:
Cure casting time is same as Fast cast, just for Cures(obviously)

So with just cure clogs, af3+2 legs, you have 27% Fast cast

10% more from /sch and 20% from merits.... You see the need for FC gear sorta disappears.

Of course, you'd still want the FC for other spells obviously, which is why I'd say the neck/waist are not worth it.

I'm sure Fast Cast and Cure casting time both work the same for cast time, but I doubt that they work the same for recast. Cure cast time gear doesn't do anything for recast times for example.

I hear people talking about how easy it is to cap fast cast on whm now. I don't see how they are getting all that close to capping the 50% recast timer unless they keep fast cast gear on at the end of a spell or use 3 fast cast atma. Even then they wouldn't be closer than ~32% recast time.

Now if they have some evidence that cast time also has a 50% cap to it, then yes it's quite easy to reach that value.
 Ragnarok.Blindphleb
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2011-01-05 02:48:29  
Still wondering about cast time capping out at -50%.
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2011-01-27 13:53:32  
Id like to bump this post and go alittle more in depth about the question.

First off What is the Cap of Cast time. Not recast.

Seeing as Divine Benison @ LV90 = Tier V.
Tier V = 50% -cast time and -25% recast
Whm merits in Cure Time x5 = another 20% - Cast time
AF3+2 legs = another -10% on Divine Benison and -12% healing cast time.

With 1 piece of gear, and merits a whm hits :
-82% Cast time and -25% Recast (Thats not counting fast cast pieces which are easily placed in and haste and such)

Id assume that traits/merits and gear are calculated in different caps. Just curious as to how much gear you can stack ontop of the natural % from Traits + Merits.

 Gilgamesh.Tweeek
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By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2011-01-27 16:38:17  
I don't know you see mixed reviews on ***then you see a post like this:

Asura.Pergatory said:
I think there's some misinformation in this thread. "Fast Cast" is different from "Cure Cast Time" which may also be different from "Healing Cast Time". They are literally different stats, meaning each one has its own cap and you can use them in combination to exceed the cap of one stat by itself. It's similar to how you can use Dual Wield enhancements to speed yourself up more even after reaching the 25% haste cap for equipment.

The consensus seems to be that Fast Cast caps at 50% but as a WHM you can go much farther for specific spells. Here's my current fast cast setup:

Fast Cast:
-10% Light Arts
-5% Orison Locket
-5% Winged Wand (5% is a guess)
-2% Loquacious Earring
-2% Incantor Stone
-2% Veela Cape
Subtotal: 26%

Cure Cast:
-20% Merits
-15% Cure Clogs
Subtotal: 35%

Healing Cast:
-12% Orison Pantaloons +2
-3% Ebur Bliaut (with Zirnitra evolith)
Subtotal: 15%

I think this adds up to about a 59% cast time reduction assuming they are compounded (0.74 * 0.65 * 0.85). Based on my experience, that feels about right.

and it makes you wonder if it's true.

then you see people rebuttal:

Ragnarok.Erikthecleric said:
Asura.Pergatory said:
They are literally different stats, meaning each one has its own cap and you can use them in combination to exceed the cap of one stat by itself.

+

Asura.Pergatory said:
It's similar to how you can use Dual Wield enhancements to speed yourself up more even after reaching the 25% haste cap for equipment.

I'm not gonna say that I know for certain about Fast Cast and Healing cast-, but I can say for certain that DW and Haste /do/ have a cap together (80% delay reduction max), so stating that Fast Cast and Healing cast could be capped at 50% would not be outlandish. I however have no experience with using FC + HC- gear, other then what I use with my friends character, and have not tested if there was a cap or what it could be...

I however did think that there was a -50% casting/recast delay max though, using BRD with Troub/night (-25% together) + /RDM (-15%) + casting- gear: minstrel -25%, Yigit -10% at the time. Which would end up being -75% assuming night/troub was last to be applied and it would go off at roughly 35% (eyeballing but easy to tell 25% and 35%). This is taking into account that normal songs also go off at around 85-90% as well. Even assuming I capped song recast @ 50%, that would be roughly 65% casting time with both, and the natural few % early song casting should make that earlier then 35% by a decent margin I'd believe. I wouldn't know how to test this for certain though T-T...

and then you're even more confused. I haven't tested I don't really know I still use precast ***and use an atma that has a fastcast stat in it, maybe some of it's being wasted maybe some of it's not I'm not sure. It just seems whenever this is brought up people are kind of assuming, the one's who are usually certain that it's all 1 cap don't ever provide a link of evidence or some type of testing they can prove unlike most other discussions.

The only thing I 100% do know is I tested my Cure clogs a long time ago when I first got them because I was paranoid that I wasn't taking advantage of both the clogs and the mnd from my blessed pumps. I used a stop watch and kept testing my macros with them being macro'd in vs not. But ***that was a long time ago, I didn't have atmas, I wasn't using /SCH I didn't have Incantor stone etc. Shoot I don't even know if I had full merits @ the time on heal casting time.
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2011-01-27 18:14:09  
See the % I show isnt even Fast cast at all.

Its the % of -Cure/healing % from Merits/Divine Benison and the 1 piece of AF3+2 look at the total.
 Pandemonium.Scrumpet
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By Pandemonium.Scrumpet 2011-01-27 18:30:51  
I'd rather max out -% recast time.

Cures already are pretty fast~
If you honestly need more than 20% it's probably telling you something about your skill. @_@;
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2011-01-27 18:32:43  
LV90 = 50% naturally. So your saying all whm have no skill :P ~.^
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 Ramuh.Lorzy
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By Ramuh.Lorzy 2011-01-27 19:17:37  
Pandemonium.Scrumpet said:
I'd rather max out -% recast time.

Cures already are pretty fast~
If you honestly need more than 20% it's probably telling you something about your skill. @_@;

because you can't cap both, right?

ITT: gear is for shitty whms
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 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2011-01-27 19:42:57  
Errr, divine benison affects Na spells and erase only doesn't it? lol
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 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2011-01-27 21:58:29  
I guess I'll expound a bit. I tried taking off everything except Light Arts, Cure Clogs, Pantaloons+2, and of course merits. That should give me 57% total which is well over the supposed 50% cap. Just eye-balling it, nothing scientific, but Cures finished around the 53% mark.

Using everything I listed in the quote further up the thread, normal Cures finish at about 42%. With Celerity, they finish even faster at under 25%.

Trust me you can definitely go well past 50% total. I do think vanilla "Fast Cast" is capped at 50% though.

Pandemonium.Scrumpet said:
I'd rather max out -% recast time.

Cures already are pretty fast~
If you honestly need more than 20% it's probably telling you something about your skill. @_@;
The way I see it, it doesn't take a good WHM to keep the group running anymore, especially in Abyssea. I've seen groups do incredible stuff with terrible healers these days. What really makes a good WHM is their ability to make those split-second moves that prevent catastrophe in the face of fast, heavy, unexpected damage. That's the only thing that kills players anymore with a half-decent WHM around. The faster you can react, the better your odds.

*edit: I'm a cast speed freak in case you can't tell. Even on top of all that equipment and such, I stack cast speed atmas. Apocalypse is incredible, Quick Magic is like crack.
 Gilgamesh.Tweeek
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By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2011-01-28 11:23:49  
i guess what you don't know is what if only one of those factors offers a break the cap type scenario like healing feather does for cures? Cure Cap pot% is 50%. If someone hit 50% and then threw on another 3 pieces of gear and also threw on healing feather they would see an increase but it had nothing to do with the 3 pieces of gear it only had to do with the feather. That's kind of my point that I wish people had test results etc or details on this info
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2011-01-28 12:31:11  
100% my fault.

Divine only effects cast time for na's and such. blaaah

but still! i would still like to know the cap ^^
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2011-01-31 10:45:18  
Gilgamesh.Tweeek said:
That's kind of my point that I wish people had test results etc or details on this info
I agree, but sadly, I just don't see that happening. :(

The main problem is lag. Lag completely and utterly destroys any attempts at taking a scientific approach to this. There is simply no way to account for it, it's too random.

Someone tried once on Allakhazam, literally using a stopwatch at one point, and still couldn't come up with solid conclusions.
 Ramuh.Lorzy
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By Ramuh.Lorzy 2011-02-06 01:13:20  
Asura.Pergatory said:
I guess I'll expound a bit. I tried taking off everything except Light Arts, Cure Clogs, Pantaloons+2, and of course merits. That should give me 57% total which is well over the supposed 50% cap. Just eye-balling it, nothing scientific, but Cures finished around the 53% mark.

Using everything I listed in the quote further up the thread, normal Cures finish at about 42%. With Celerity, they finish even faster at under 25%.

Trust me you can definitely go well past 50% total. I do think vanilla "Fast Cast" is capped at 50% though.

Pandemonium.Scrumpet said:
I'd rather max out -% recast time.

Cures already are pretty fast~
If you honestly need more than 20% it's probably telling you something about your skill. @_@;
The way I see it, it doesn't take a good WHM to keep the group running anymore, especially in Abyssea. I've seen groups do incredible stuff with terrible healers these days. What really makes a good WHM is their ability to make those split-second moves that prevent catastrophe in the face of fast, heavy, unexpected damage. That's the only thing that kills players anymore with a half-decent WHM around. The faster you can react, the better your odds.

*edit: I'm a cast speed freak in case you can't tell. Even on top of all that equipment and such, I stack cast speed atmas. Apocalypse is incredible, Quick Magic is like crack.

have you happened to note the cast speed time with fast cast atmas?
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-02-06 01:50:24  
I'm at around 30FPS

Equips etc: Full cure cast-time merits, Light arts, Incantor Stone, Asceso's Choker, Loq. Earring, Marduk's Jubbah, Veela Cape, AF3+2 pants and Cure Clogs.

Cure V: 30~40%
Cure VI: ~50%(maybe 40~50%)
Cure III: 40~50%

Celerity Cure V: 30%
Celerity Cure VI: 30~40%

I couldn't tell you if this means ***, but just putting it out there. Too lazy to test anything tonight.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Elysien 2011-02-06 02:23:11  
Leviathan.Niniann said:
I'm at around 30FPS

Equips etc: Full cure cast-time merits, Light arts, Incantor Stone, Asceso's Choker, Loq. Earring, Marduk's Jubbah, Veela Cape, AF3+2 pants and Cure Clogs.

Cure V: 30~40%
Cure VI: ~50%
Cure III: 40~50%

Celerity Cure V: 30%
Celerity Cure VI: 30~40%

I couldn't tell you if this means ***, but just putting it out there. Too lazy to test anything tonight.

According to wiki, all cures are static @2.5 seconds so they should've all been the same? I personally use light arts, incantor stone, orison locket, loq earring, af3+2 legs, and 5 cure merits which gets me to about 45% casting and 30% w/ Celerity (eyeballing isn't consistent :/)

My friend says she gets 50% Fast cast on rdm and gets lower cast times w/ light arts up. I've come to the conclusion that sch abilities such as light arts/celerity are unique and aren't counted towards the 'cap', but calculated 2nd after the 'gear/merits' fast cast.
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-02-06 02:28:46  
Quetzalcoatl.Elysien said:
According to wiki, all cures are static @2.5 seconds so they should've all been the same? I personally use light arts, incantor stone, orison locket, loq earring, af3+2 legs, and 5 cure merits which gets me to about 45% casting and 30% w/ Celerity (eyeballing isn't consistent :/)

My friend says she gets 50% Fast cast on rdm and gets lower cast times w/ light arts up. I've come to the conclusion that sch abilities such as light arts/celerity are unique and aren't counted towards the 'cap', but calculated 2nd after the 'gear/merits' fast cast.

No Light Arts(Same gear as before)

Cure: ~50%
Cure II: ~50%
Cure III: ~50%
Cure IV: ~50%
Cure V: ~50%
Cure VI: ~50%

Eyeballing sucks but yeah, I can see this being true.

Edit: BTW, According to SpellCast (I trust that over wiki :/) Cure is 2 sec, Cure II is 2.25 sec, Cure III, IV, V is 2.5 sec, and Cure VI is 2 sec.
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2011-02-06 02:51:07  
If you need that extra STR/ATK to top the parse, it's probably telling you something about your skill.
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By Ramuh.Lorzy 2011-02-06 02:53:57  
so it's likely we can only get 60% reduction to cast time?
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-02-06 03:13:45  
Ramuh.Lorzy said:
so it's likely we can only get 60% reduction to cast time?

With Light Arts yeah it seems. Too lazy to swap gear around and stuff. Already logged off and I'm sitting in bed. :< Seems reasonable that you cap at 50% normally, then +10% with Light Arts putting it at -60%, and Celerity decreasing the cast-time further.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Elysien 2011-02-06 05:03:35  
I think Asura.Pergatory is actually spot on. I think they (fast cast, healing, cure cast) might all have their own casting 'caps.' It's unfortunate I don't have an Aceso's choker to fool around with.

EDIT: Using Curaga IV, I was hitting ~40% w/ light arts, af3 legs, orison locket, incantor stone, loq earring, +5 cure merits. Which is mathematically correct. Slapped on cure clogs and was getting ~30%. It's much easier using curaga4 than cure5s to gauge casting time %s

EDIT2:After further testing, it appears any gear will cap at 50% (including the actual rdm fast cast trait), while sch abilities remain unique and do not count towards the initial 'gear cap'. So if anyone is wondering, you can save yourself a couple merits w/ Aceso's choker/clogs/af3+2 legs/loq earring/incantor stone (+3 cure to cap.) or save yourself 2m (quetz price) on the choker and keep 5 merits while maintaining the 'gear cap.'

~thanks to Kimora for the further testing on cure caps
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By Ramuh.Lorzy 2011-02-06 05:16:05  
i wasn't actually sure whether cure clogs worked for curaga. nice to know.
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