Imponderable Imponderables

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2010-06-21
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Imponderable imponderables
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 Fairy.Winterlight
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By Fairy.Winterlight 2009-01-28 18:07:22  
Why is it that Ninjas only get A- on both ninjitsu and Katana? Bard only has a C in singing/instruments. What is SE saving an A+ in those skills for?

PLDs get A+ on sword, Monks A+ on H2H...

Maybe SE always planned to come out with uber-super-duper NIN & BRD jobs? ;)
 Unicorn.Tavlov
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By Unicorn.Tavlov 2009-01-28 18:10:29  
Good question. I'd guess in fairness they didnt extend the max skill.
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-01-28 18:52:19  
Mime Class:

Skills: A+ on all skills (but you can't skillup on them on Mime Class)

Weapons: All weapons equipable (but you can't fight until somebody else does)

Spells: All spells available (but you can't cast until somebody else does)

JA: All JAs (except 2hrs, and even then, you can't use them until somebody else does)

2hr: Mimic (which basically does nothing if nobody else is there)

Thats the job that SE is saving all non-A+ skills for lol
 Garuda.Wooooodum
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By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-01-28 18:54:53  
It's been stated by the developers before why Ninjas (and Thiefs as well with Daggers) are only A-; the general setup that these jobs usually use means they're hitting the fastest of any of the jobs in the game. With all the Dual-Wield enhancements and capped Haste, these jobs attack ridiculously fast.

Because of this, they considered it "unfair" to give these two jobs A+ in their respective skill, simply because they're already so good.

Something like that anyway. As for the Ninjutsu and bard skills, I haven't a clue!
 Ifrit.Haseyo
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By Ifrit.Haseyo 2009-01-28 18:57:10
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A- Smn skill o.O;
Whm only B+ Club when we can use the strongest o.O;
Pie O.o;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
 Unicorn.Smurfo
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By Unicorn.Smurfo 2009-01-28 19:21:35  
Wooooodum said:
It's been stated by the developers before why Ninjas (and Thiefs as well with Daggers) are only A-; the general setup that these jobs usually use means they're hitting the fastest of any of the jobs in the game. With all the Dual-Wield enhancements and capped Haste, these jobs attack ridiculously fast.

Because of this, they considered it "unfair" to give these two jobs A+ in their respective skill, simply because they're already so good.

Something like that anyway. As for the Ninjutsu and bard skills, I haven't a clue!


Well, look at Monk, it has A+ and can attack nearly as fast, it's probably the easiest job to cap out haste gear on, definitely one of the fastest hitters and it gets an A+. If that's SE's reasoning for not A+'ing thf and nin.. why not monk too?

Not saying that your post is invalid, they may very well have said that, but if so it's kind of hypocritical of them in a sense if thats their basis for A-'ing those jobs.

The bard skills thing i believe i remember reading something about it being due to the way CHR factors in to resists, i know i have little problems landing elegy on any mob if i gear in +skill gears as well as decent CHR+.

I dont know if thats fact, but i do know i can land elegy on cerberus and some other hnm's rather reliably, A+ would probably be overpowered is why i think the bard skills are lower
 Lakshmi.Wardens
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By Lakshmi.Wardens 2009-01-28 21:01:11  
(this is slightly off topic.. but on the topic of cap skills)
Isn't GS skill a little lower on DRK as well? I know it has the highest GS skill in the game. Its fairly low compared to DRK's scythe skill. Although now that I think about it, wasn't GS meant to go against monsters with higher VIT or something? I don't remember where I read that or if it was just my imagination.

And while I'm complaining, I wish PLD had higher skill in polearm lol
 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-01-28 21:37:34  
Wardens said:
And while I'm complaining, I wish PLD had higher skill in polearm lol

YES, GAWD, YES!!!! If it could be at LEAST a B, I'd be happy T_T
 Asura.Bodhisattvah
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By Asura.Bodhisattvah 2009-01-28 21:54:11  
The weapons caps at 75 for a Dark Knight are 276 for scythe (A+), and 269 for greatsword (A-), but the skill caps at levels 1 and 37 are the same. And yeah I looked that up with the wiki because I don't even pay attention to the numbers of my own job. It's not too terrible of a gap but to be honest I can't tell you why it's there.

For skills like ninjutsu and bard songs, my best guess is that since they're specific to their respective jobs there's really not anything else to base their letter grade off of other than weapon caps, and maybe skill level in those areas is different than skill level for weapons? I have no idea, I just wanted to answer the question about DRK caps, lol.
 Unicorn.Smurfo
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By Unicorn.Smurfo 2009-01-28 22:15:39  
Nah, see the singing and ninjitsu both fall under magic skills...

RDM gets enfeebling

WHM gets.. whatever healing and stuff

PLD gets divine

BLM elemental

but BRD does in fact get shafted on its magic skills, i think it's due to the way CHR and 2 different skills factor in singing + whatever instrument, as RDM fully merited with tons of enfeebling equip+ it's hard to land spells on some mobs, but as bard i can land elegy on them relatively easy.. and if not brd/blm works on those hnm. Songs don't process the same way as other magic is all i know of it, yah an A+ would be great though ; ;

ninjitsu, i have no idea but if ninja gets an A- at least its better than a C skill in your job's specific magic ability lol
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-01-28 22:17:22  
Smurfo said:
Nah, see the singing and ninjitsu both fall under magic skills...

RDM gets enfeebling

WHM gets.. whatever healing and stuff

PLD gets divine

BLM elemental but

BRD does in fact get shafted on its magic skills, i think it's due to the way CHR factors, as RDM fully merited with tons of enfeebling equip+ it's hard to land spells on some mobs, but as bard i can land elegy on them relatively easy.. and if not brd/blm works on those hnm. Songs don't process the same way as other magic is all i know of it, yah an A+ would be great though ; ; ninjitsu, i have no idea but if ninja gets an A- at least its better than a C skill in your job's specific magic ability lol


What about us poor SMNs with a Summoning Magic skill of 269 (before equips).

Where is the love for SMNs?
 Lakshmi.Wardens
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By Lakshmi.Wardens 2009-01-28 22:24:08  
lmao Anye xD

and thanks Bodhisattvah ^^
 Ragnarok.Erikthecleric
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By Ragnarok.Erikthecleric 2009-01-28 22:28:26  
If you look on most BRD songs on Wikipedia they have that "Combined Skill of ??? = ?? Stat." That may be why BRD has C skill, because it has 2 different sets of C skills (Singing AND Instrument).

Valor Minuet IV for Example:

+54 Attack at 450 combined skill (natural skill cap for BRD75)
+54 Attack at 454 combined skill
+55 Attack at 457
+55 Attack at 461
+56 Attack at 462 (+12 skill)
+56 Attack at 488
+56 Attack at 529 (+79 skill)— so it seems that +56 is the cap.

I dont know how it factors into things like Elegy and threnody, or whatever... Maybe since the 2 skills are added together, they have a lower M.acc+ or something, but that may shine a little light onto their "main" skills only being C.

Edit: Still dont see why they didnt just make one A skill, but hey, ill just deal with what i gotz
 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-01-28 23:23:19  
Wardens said:
lmao Anye xD

and thanks Bodhisattvah ^^

Seriously, once I saw the Iron Ram Lance, I drooled buckets. :Q
 Lakshmi.Wardens
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By Lakshmi.Wardens 2009-01-28 23:59:30  
I bought one too! ;D I just have to figure out where/when to use it. lol I don't have a damage% down set yet.
 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-01-29 00:03:31  
Lol, neither do I.... I should look one up, though :D

I suppose Earth Staff > Iron Ram Lance for its VIT, but I'd much rather have a cool lookin' polearm than a brown ball on a stick stuck to my back. :<
 Unicorn.Smurfo
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By Unicorn.Smurfo 2009-01-29 00:25:06  
Believe it or not, if you are a paladin and planning to gimp your self without a shield for any given situation you deem necessary (only one i can imagine is kiting a mob) then the iron ram lance is technically much better than E staff.

Reason being, VIT does absolutely nothing vs any mob of a level significant enough that you would need to kite. The 10MP 10HP is far more useful.

And yes, a polearm probably does look cooler, semi-decent dmg on that thing too, whats paladins skill rating with polearm? I never attempted to skill it lol
 Ragnarok.Erikthecleric
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By Ragnarok.Erikthecleric 2009-01-29 00:39:38  
Technically, if the mob only does physical damage, then Earth Staff(-20% Physical damage) would be better, if the mob does any magic, then yeah the IR Lance is better :3

Though I still like using Macu +1 and Shield for the enmity, specially vs mobs that you can easily go from Ichi > Ni > ichi etc.
 Unicorn.Smurfo
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By Unicorn.Smurfo 2009-01-29 00:57:12  
Ah, my bad i didn't notice that this polearm was only -10% dmg, I still would have to say VIT = lol though.

And i still can't think of any reason to not have sword/shield equipped unless kiting something like KB or anything else where you are blood tanking but not engaged on the mob... and running like hell
 Lakshmi.Wardens
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By Lakshmi.Wardens 2009-01-29 01:29:41  
lol well Earth staff is -20% damage taken xD and has VIT. I think I heard people use the Earth Staff when they are kiting with a -damage% set. And use iron ram lance when they are trying to do damage with a -damage% set ^^ I'm also sad that PLD can't use Engetsuto...
 Lakshmi.Wardens
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By Lakshmi.Wardens 2009-01-29 01:33:37  
Well it seems I really /derailed this topic.. sorry about that ^^; But while we're on the topic. Why do I keep hearing that IR Lance has -magic damage on it? I haven't seen anything about that in its description?
 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-01-29 01:43:47  
it's just "-10% Damage" meaning any damage, physical/magic is not specified.

Ooh, and I forgot Earth Staff was -20%..... I haven't played in 6 days and look where it gets me T_T
 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-01-29 01:44:31  
Erikthecleric said:
Technically, if the mob only does physical damage, then Earth Staff(-20% Physical damage) would be better, if the mob does any magic, then yeah the IR Lance is better :3

Though I still like using Macu +1 and Shield for the enmity, specially vs mobs that you can easily go from Ichi &gt; Ni &gt; ichi etc.

OHAI UREK <3
 Titan.Azarasi
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By Titan.Azarasi 2009-01-29 02:12:55  
I always wondered why brd's got C+ song, it should be B atleast
 Valefor.Marianka
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By Valefor.Marianka 2009-01-29 03:46:12  
I had teachers who refused to give a 10-score (A+) because they refused to acknowledge perfection in a subject. I think the thought behind that is the same thought SE had when they decided on A- and B+ skills.

If you really want to boggle your mind:
Thief can fire status bolts, yet they don't know how to shoot normal ammo...
some job can't equip certain armor, like there is skill involved in putting on a robe....
Why is there singing skill, but no dancing skill?
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-01-29 05:03:49  
Why can't people realize that PLDs = DDs, BLMs = tanks, THFs = puller and PUP = the best?
 Sylph.Feyen
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By Sylph.Feyen 2009-01-29 06:13:24  
Marianka said:
Why is there singing skill, but no dancing skill?


Singing is a 'spell' while dancing is a job ability
 Hades.Dizzmal
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By Hades.Dizzmal 2009-01-29 09:44:25  
Smurfo said:
Believe it or not, if you are a paladin and planning to gimp your self without a shield for any given situation you deem necessary (only one i can imagine is kiting a mob) then the iron ram lance is technically much better than E staff. Reason being, VIT does absolutely nothing vs any mob of a level significant enough that you would need to kite. The 10MP 10HP is far more useful. And yes, a polearm probably does look cooler, semi-decent dmg on that thing too, whats paladins skill rating with polearm? I never attempted to skill it lol


There are different situations that you use either E.Staff or IR lance. Ultima comes to mind when building a magic resist build (CB can hurt) and such. Sword and shield are great for most things, But you are not "Gimping" yourself if you use these things for certian situations.
 Lakshmi.Kleric
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By Lakshmi.Kleric 2009-01-29 10:40:23  
Minuet IV's hard cap is 66, got it the other day while testing to see if Vulacans staff would have had any help but with full min merits and cornette + 1 it was +66 with or without that staff to a 75nin and 75sam.
I agree that because there are multiple low bard skills ,when your casting a song, it takes into account the combined skill. Singing + Wind skill when using a wind instrument. It does seem like the only reason imo, but yes I agree with everyone else in saying B at least D=
 Garuda.Ishkur
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By Garuda.Ishkur 2009-01-29 10:45:58  
**OFF TOPIC**
Malekith said:
While on the subject of Ultima, this is setup that I used and I was only taking 900-1000 from Citadel Buster. Granted I also had a fully merited Shell V on me, but the gear helped out alot. One last point to make that when using the above gear set, I didn't FT tank in it. I only swapped into it once I saw the TP move being readied in the log.

I think with that you'd have -magic dmg taken capped with "maximum Magic Damage reduction is 27.34%." from Shellra V + "Magic Def Bonus"+15 + the -17% Magic dmg taken + -10% dmg taken that would translate in roughly (since the magic def bonus = 1% aprox according to wiki) = 69.34%... I have no idea what cap is but I doubt it's more than 50%

I wonder if you know, maybe?

EDIT: Forgot the 2% from Askar feet :P
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