New Jump @ Next Update

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2010-06-21
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New Jump @ Next Update
 Bismarck.Sotek
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By Bismarck.Sotek 2010-08-28 09:50:35  
Quote:
Spirit jump gives as much tp as a full jump tp build gives so technically if you are one of the people that spent all the gil and time into getting all those pieces spirit jump just frees up your inventory. Spirit jump also only gives the boost if your wyvren is alive so yeah that's not always the case in heavy AoE situations, and if you say it pushes you into a 5hit not including spirit jump in those 5 hits then again your math is off(since jumps are on recast timers they cant be included in every round of swings).

Spirit Jump gives TP*1.5. Unless you're using Skystrider (you shouldn't), Jump wouldn't give you that much TP.
I said Spirit Jump pushes you into a 5-hit if Conserve TP kicks in. It does, I've tested it against Jump. It's not a 5-hit full time, I never said it was, but please explain how a full time 6-hit is better than a potential 5-hit every minute and a half? A bit more damage and a 15 second faster recast doesn't out weigh a 5-hit. If you think Jumps can't be included in a x-hit build because they're on recasts, you're stupid. Getting 27TP per Jump with Skystrider and Conte puts you at 54TP in only 2 hits that are nigh instant, leaving you with only needing 3 hits to pass 100TP. A 5-hit build every 3 minutes. If you don't want to count them in a x-hit calculation, you could say that gives you a 3-hit build every three minutes, I guess. Both mean the same though tbh.
Quote:
Do you know how the wyvrins work? every time we use our tp they use their tp and they build tp slower then we do and their is no way of making your wyvrin keep its tp while sub sam except to kill a mob with a weapon skill. That is the only way spirit link is useful for the tp gain /SAM, not /mage it can be useful /mage. Even then its still a very small boost its not even comparable to the boost sam's get to their meditate from af, or relic.

Other than the obvious method of using it you mentioned, guess what happens if I have 75TP and my Wyvern has 25TP and I use Spirit Link. If your wyvern gets 17TP at any point before you reach 100TP it knocks a hit off your 6-hit. There are also a number of NMs and HNMs that people don't want to feed TP on. If you store TP on random mobs in the area first and Weapon Skill on the NM before you land a hit on it, you can get a full 100TP from Spirit Link as well since they wyvern wont use a breath attack.
Quote:
4 Jumps? yes how many can we use? 3. How many of the ones we can use at a time do damage or give tp? 2. this 5th jump we are about to get does it change the number of jumps we can use at a time? No.
Also if you have relic legs high jump already suppress 60% of your hate. So this jump would have to give 3 more tp then regular high jump and suppress 70% of the enmity you had gained so far in the battle so actually be considered a new jump.

Granted I mentioned a lot of other abilities DRG gets in between, but I said four jumps would be overpowered, since people seem to be complaining at the fact they're linked.
While we don't know what the bonus is on Soul Jump, if it is the same it already gives you a 5-hit build every three minutes in the same way Skystrider does (Skystrider actually puts you 5TP over 100, two Spirit Jump affects would put you 1TP over, well depending on WS TP return). But assuming you have a 6-hit build and for some reason Conte Body/Legs. High Jump would give you 19 TP, since you're wearing Wyrm brais for an extra -10% enmity. Soul Jump would (though again, arguably since it's on double the recast any TP bonus it gives you should be greater) 17TP*1.5 = 25TP. So that's already 6TP greater than High Jump. Enmity wise I think these new jumps just don't generate enmity, so High Jump wins on shedding hate. Though that in itself is greatly situational and Super Jump does the job on the same recast (or less if you decide not to merit the other Jumps now).
Quote:
So keep your boohooig butt hurt Sam *** out of here since you clearly don't know the job at all. I also just came from the blm forum and its all excited about the update and wondering what the -ja spells are while their is negativity because well it is SE we are dealing with all in all blm's are generally happy about this update.

My SAM is level 37, nice try. And BLMs have always complained at getting shafted before this update, regardless of the fact it's basically the most complete job SE has made. DRGs complaining at getting shafted again is just pathetic considering what it got last update.

Other than that I agree with SE being stupid with these Jumps. There's no need for new Jumps for DRG. SE should be focusing on making the Wyvern better (make the breath attack damage based off maximum HP). If they want to make new abilities, give DRG Pole Bash. It's the only Knight class with no stun/bash ability as it is. I'd much rather they spend time making the Wyvern an actual useful part of the job, rather than just a gimmick (aside soloing /mage, of course).
Personally I hope they change DRGs group one merits since these new ones aren't linked to the merits. Recast merits always felt ugh though. I'd rather have Jump (as in all jumps) +Acc/Atk and Call Wyvern merits (+HP or -DT% or something).
 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-08-28 09:57:25  
Any equipment with "Jump TP Bonus" does not increase the amount of TP gained by use of Spirit Jump (See Discussion)

From Wiki.
 Bismarck.Luces
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By Bismarck.Luces 2010-08-28 12:20:09  
Bismarck.Dracondria said:
Any equipment with "Jump TP Bonus" does not increase the amount of TP gained by use of Spirit Jump (See Discussion)

From Wiki.

^ this. Now if jump tp gear did work on spirit jump and soul jump that would be awesome. I also left out the fact that spirit jump is also useful in the fact that it sheds a little bit of hate.
These are both the copy and pasted text from the update pages.

Spirit Jump (DRG Lv.77 Ability Delay: 90 sec.)
Delivers a short jumping attack on a targeted enemy which suppresses enmity. Effect enhanced when wyvern is present.

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/verup/ff11us/detail/5571/detail.html

Soul Jump (DRG Lv.85 Effect Duration: 3 min.)
Delivers a high jumping attack on a targeted enemy which suppresses enmity. Effect enhanced when wyvern is present.

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/5767/detail.html

The description for the 2 are the exact same, except one says short and one says high.
Notice how it says duration and not ability delay on soul jump. I just noticed this myself.
Now what makes me wonder is it just bad translation, like SE does all the time or will it actually suppress the enmity you generate for 3 min?
 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2010-08-28 12:23:07  
Bismarck.Luces said:
Bismarck.Dracondria said:
Any equipment with "Jump TP Bonus" does not increase the amount of TP gained by use of Spirit Jump (See Discussion)

From Wiki.

^ this. Now if jump tp gear did work on spirit jump and soul jump that would be awesome. I also left out the fact that spirit jump is also useful in the fact that it sheds a little bit of hate.
These are both the copy and pasted text from the update pages.

Spirit Jump (DRG Lv.77 Ability Delay: 90 sec.)
Delivers a short jumping attack on a targeted enemy which suppresses enmity. Effect enhanced when wyvern is present.

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/verup/ff11us/detail/5571/detail.html

Soul Jump (DRG Lv.85 Effect Duration: 3 min.)
Delivers a high jumping attack on a targeted enemy which suppresses enmity. Effect enhanced when wyvern is present.

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/5767/detail.html

The description for the 2 are the exact same, except one says short and one says high.
Notice how it says duration and not ability delay on soul jump. I just noticed this myself.
Now what makes me wonder is it just bad translation, like SE does all the time or will it actually suppress the enmity you generate for 3 min?

Did'nt notice that either.. Probably just a typo =/
But would be cool if it's not:P
 Shiva.Daimos
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By Shiva.Daimos 2010-08-28 12:23:26  
THAT would be brilliant.
 Ifrit.Airius
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By Ifrit.Airius 2010-08-28 12:43:56  
2:30 for high jump (any drg worth a damn should have recast fully merited) which drops 50% of current enmity or 3:00 for an enmity suppressing jump. Not going to be a hard choice which to use unless the damage on soul jump turns out to be significantly larger.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-08-28 12:55:35  
Spirit Jump doesn't actually shed hate, it just generates minimal enmity... but an extended duration suppression effect could situationally be worth using over High Jump.
 Bismarck.Sotek
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By Bismarck.Sotek 2010-08-28 13:03:25  
It's a mistranslation.

Spirit Jump and Soul Jump respectively from the JP site:
・スピリットジャンプ(竜騎士Lv77 使用間隔:90秒)
軽く跳躍して標的となった敵に敵対心を抑えた攻撃。ワイバーンがいると効果アップ。
・ソウルジャンプ(竜騎士Lv85使用間隔:3分)
高く跳躍して標的となった敵に敵対心を抑えた攻撃。ワイバーンがいると効果アップ。
※「ソウルジャンプ」は「ハイジャンプ」と使用間隔を共有しています。
Don't even need to translate it tbh.

Also considering I doubt there's any more new JAs/JTs/Spells for SE to add in part II of the job adjustments, I'd guess it will be alterations to ***from last update (like Occult Acumen). Since there's no reason for Jump TP bonus to work with Spirit/Soul I can see them fixing that and linking it with merit recasts.
Bismarck.Dracondria said:
Any equipment with "Jump TP Bonus" does not increase the amount of TP gained by use of Spirit Jump (See Discussion)

From Wiki.

Where did I say or imply that it did?
Would be nice if it did, though I wonder if it would apply the TP bonus before or after the TP bonus Spirit Jump gets anyway. Well it's only a difference of ~3TP.
 Ifrit.Airius
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By Ifrit.Airius 2010-08-28 13:15:01  
I'm so confused why drgs say they need more enmity suppression to a point where they are willing to give up additional damage for a FOURTH -enmity tool. taking hate as a DD will happen. Just learn to utilize your main subjobs in party situations nin (shadows) and sam (seigan/third eye) like every other DD.
[+]
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-08-28 14:19:23  
Ifrit.Airius said:
I'm so confused why drgs say they need more enmity suppression to a point where they are willing to give up additional damage for a FOURTH -enmity tool. taking hate as a DD will happen. Just learn to utilize your main subjobs in party situations nin (shadows) and sam (seigan/third eye) like every other DD.
Using Seigan/TE means we can't keep Hasso up, lowering DPS more than using an alternate Jump would... so the real question is, why not? Spirit Jump was fail in that department but a constant suppression effect could potentially be useful, even at the expense of High Jump.

Does seem to be a typo... Xanthe said Japanese and French versions say use interval while English and German say duration.
 Shiva.Daimos
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By Shiva.Daimos 2010-08-28 14:20:33  
Fulltiming hasso on drg would be sex~
 Sylph.Spiriel
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By Sylph.Spiriel 2010-08-28 14:35:48  
Soul Jump + Spirit Jump would be a faster run to 100% than the older method. Knocks an entire hit off your 6-hit when it's up.

Not sure why everyone thinks "suppresses enmity" on Soul Jump is new, since Spirit Jump had the same damned effect. Haven't used it much (since I'm properly meritted,) but I may start trying to toss it on mobs early in the fight and see if I pull as much hate as I usually do.
 Cerberus.Delsus
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By Cerberus.Delsus 2010-08-28 18:34:01  
Ifrit.Airius said:
2:30 for high jump (any drg worth a damn should have recast fully merited) which drops 50% of current enmity or 3:00 for an enmity suppressing jump. Not going to be a hard choice which to use unless the damage on soul jump turns out to be significantly larger.

/sigh ppl BIG NUMBERS DONT MEAN EVERYTHING spirit jump gives more tp than jump with the description "effect is enhanced when wyvern is present" so we can assume that soul jump with the same discription does the same so using spirit over jump and soul over high jump you would get 3% more tp. Faster WS's > a few more dmg each jump for DoT.

These ppl that say "OMG THIS NEW JUMP SUCKS BECAUSE IT DOES LESS DMG" really annoy me.

The only think i dont like about spirit is that it doesnt take jump merits into account so feel free to troll about that not the fact spirit and prolly soul jumps do less dmg.

Let the rate downs begin
[+]
 Shiva.Xet
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By Shiva.Xet 2010-08-28 18:37:22  
I gear my jumps like weaponskills to get max damage out of them but all in all i use as a tp/hate shed tool.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-08-28 20:37:17  
Sylph.Spiriel said:
Soul Jump + Spirit Jump would be a faster run to 100% than the older method. Knocks an entire hit off your 6-hit when it's up.
They aren't affected by merits, so over time it would be slower.
Quote:
Not sure why everyone thinks "suppresses enmity" on Soul Jump is new, since Spirit Jump had the same damned effect. Haven't used it much (since I'm properly meritted,) but I may start trying to toss it on mobs early in the fight and see if I pull as much hate as I usually do.
Because the notes say duration of effect. It's likely a mistranslation but that's completely different from how Spirit Jump works.
Cerberus.Delsus said:
/sigh ppl BIG NUMBERS DONT MEAN EVERYTHING spirit jump gives more tp than jump
tl;dr'd the rest

The extra TP doesn't affect anything if it doesn't save you a hit to WS. We hate it because it's useless without Conserve TP procs, it's not affected by recast merits, and because it's weaker, not just the latter.
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2010-08-28 20:40:39  
Ya the extra 6-9 tp you get from Spirit jump is useless compared to the recast/dmg from regular jump.

Its the same deal with Drg who wear jump TP bonus gear. Unless you can stack enough to add an extra 16-18tp to your jump, its worthless and doesnt save you a hit in your build, it simply creates overflow.


ATM This new jump sounds retarded, 2 Enmity controling jumps on same timer, there better be some other huge secret to this jump.
 Shiva.Superdan
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By Shiva.Superdan 2010-09-03 05:53:55  
BOOM! Merits taken into effect on new jumps now!
 Cerberus.Irohuro
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By Cerberus.Irohuro 2010-09-03 12:32:58  
glad ive only put one merit in group one so far then =/

they're also "further increasing the enhanced effect of spirit jump when wyvern is present"

and now wyverns can level up in abyssea.
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By Eurra 2010-09-03 12:35:53  
Cloudbreak said:
Ok so we are getting a new jump. Any speculations?
I'm betting it will be link to highjump.


DRG new jump!
I bet it will be called Skip.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2010-09-03 13:15:29  
The boost to Spirit Jump is incredibly welcome, and if Soul Jump works the same way, I welcome it. Merits counting toward the recast is an incredible asset in itself, but they're also boosting the TP bonus. Really nice stuff~
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2010-09-03 14:08:48  
Says in updates now that Jump merits will work with spirit jump. Probably Soul Jump too.
 Lakshmi.Thala
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By Lakshmi.Thala 2010-09-09 17:38:17  
Has anyone tested this yet to see if High Jump merits apply to the timer?
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-09-09 19:09:14  
They do.
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