Perle Really Better?

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2010-06-21
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Perle really better?
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 Ifrit.Jurai
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By Ifrit.Jurai 2010-08-04 00:45:08  
So, right now my set is pretty standard and I think is ok..


I'm about to get 78 and use Perle since that is assumed to be the new best.. or so I've heard anyway.

I know it gives much more att/acc than my current set up but my acc seems fine in pretty much all situations I do and I'm not sure how much dmg that att is really going to add.

I'm kinda not wanting to lose the 4% double attack from pole/askar.

I double attack quite frequently even /nin, say in this pt atm, criting sometimes for 250+ on the 2nd hit or w/e. At least double attacking twice/three times per mob with extra hits being 115+.

So, just say 3 times, 115 each, not gonna include maybe a crit- so almost 400 extra dmg from the double attacks. I doubt he extra attack from Perle is gonna give me 400 dmg for my dot vs that mob and my acc is fine w/o the extra acc from Perle.

To me it seems I'd need tons of attack to do that much more dmg dot wise vs what I can do with some extra double attacks per round. Even if Perle was +50~100 att more I don't see that even being enough to out do one or two extra double attacks.

---

I guess what I'm asking is is that 4% double attack lost really going to matter? With 5%? from Brutal already- does it not matter that much that I'm losing 4%?

Or should I only use Perle set when I need the extra acc?

What about the double attack being lost for ws?
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 Bismarck.Rellz
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By Bismarck.Rellz 2010-08-04 01:01:58  
ur tp set looks fine i would swap body and legs in for extra acc when needed i really wouldnt worry about double attack loss vs higher level mobs as u will need all the acc u get get really plus u have brutal which will still double attack.

This is what i use for tp. i really couldnt get my hands on the other pieces of homam so this is the best i got
 Quetzalcoatl.Giazz
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By Quetzalcoatl.Giazz 2010-08-04 01:07:39  
Bismarck.Rellz said:
ur tp set looks fine i would swap body and legs in for extra acc when needed i really wouldnt worry about double attack loss vs higher level mobs as u will need all the acc u get get really plus u have brutal which will still double attack.

Why swap the body and legs only?

If you're going to swap those pieces, you should just swap to full perle, for same haste (+14%) as HomamX3 + Turban, but full Perle also has more STR, Attack, and accuracy.
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 Bismarck.Rellz
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By Bismarck.Rellz 2010-08-04 01:18:37  
accidently posted twice
 Bismarck.Rellz
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By Bismarck.Rellz 2010-08-04 01:19:10  
Quetzalcoatl.Giazz said:
Bismarck.Rellz said:
ur tp set looks fine i would swap body and legs in for extra acc when needed i really wouldnt worry about double attack loss vs higher level mobs as u will need all the acc u get get really plus u have brutal which will still double attack.

Why swap the body and legs only?

If you're going to swap those pieces, you should just swap to full perle, for same haste (+14%) as HomamX3 + Turban, but full Perle also has more STR, Attack, and accuracy.
perle only 13 i think but i see ur point
 Quetzalcoatl.Giazz
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By Quetzalcoatl.Giazz 2010-08-04 01:21:51  
Bismarck.Rellz said:
Quetzalcoatl.Giazz said:
Bismarck.Rellz said:
ur tp set looks fine i would swap body and legs in for extra acc when needed i really wouldnt worry about double attack loss vs higher level mobs as u will need all the acc u get get really plus u have brutal which will still double attack.

Why swap the body and legs only?

If you're going to swap those pieces, you should just swap to full perle, for same haste (+14%) as HomamX3 + Turban, but full Perle also has more STR, Attack, and accuracy.
perle only 13 i think but i see ur point

No. Full perle set has 14% haste. There is a misprint on the Perle head...

Also, your current DRG gear set is lacking a 6hit build. A Rose strap would fix that.
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 Bismarck.Rellz
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By Bismarck.Rellz 2010-08-04 01:23:22  
Quetzalcoatl.Giazz said:
Bismarck.Rellz said:
Quetzalcoatl.Giazz said:
Bismarck.Rellz said:
ur tp set looks fine i would swap body and legs in for extra acc when needed i really wouldnt worry about double attack loss vs higher level mobs as u will need all the acc u get get really plus u have brutal which will still double attack.

Why swap the body and legs only?

If you're going to swap those pieces, you should just swap to full perle, for same haste (+14%) as HomamX3 + Turban, but full Perle also has more STR, Attack, and accuracy.
perle only 13 i think but i see ur point

No. Full perle set has 14% haste. There is a misprint on the Perle head...

Also, your current DRG gear set is lacking a 6hit build. I Rose strap would fix that.
if im /sam i use rose then i get 6 hit if not /sam i dont use it because i wouldnt get 6 hit either way
 Ifrit.Jurai
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By Ifrit.Jurai 2010-08-04 01:25:50  
So, about my post? lol
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-08-04 01:27:42  
Perle is not the new "best" but it is certainly the new standard as opposed to an equivalent haste Homam setup. Go with full Perle. If you choose to make an STP Stingray you can use Pole Grip again, but if you make a def down or eva down polearm you'll still need Rose Strap.
Bismarck.Rellz said:
if im /sam i use rose then i get 6 hit if not /sam i dont use it because i wouldnt get 6 hit either way
For what it's worth adding Rose Strap gives you a true 7-hit whereas without it you're relying on landing 2 additional hits of your WS. Just something to keep in mind around monsters with TP reset moves.
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 Ifrit.Jurai
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By Ifrit.Jurai 2010-08-04 01:32:03  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Perle is not the new "best" but it is certainly the new standard as opposed to an equivalent haste Homam setup. Go with full Perle. If you choose to make an STP Stingray you can use Pole Grip again, but if you make a def down or eva down polearm you'll still need Rose Strap.
Right, it's the new standard but I'm not sure it's better. Sure gives a boost to attack and acc but if you don't need that acc, double attack (from what I've seen) will out do that extra attack.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-08-04 01:37:05  
What polearm do you intend to upgrade to?
 Gilgamesh.Samuraiking
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By Gilgamesh.Samuraiking 2010-08-04 01:42:04  
Ifrit.Jurai said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Perle is not the new "best" but it is certainly the new standard as opposed to an equivalent haste Homam setup. Go with full Perle. If you choose to make an STP Stingray you can use Pole Grip again, but if you make a def down or eva down polearm you'll still need Rose Strap.
Right, it's the new standard but I'm not sure it's better. Sure gives a boost to attack and acc but if you don't need that acc, double attack (from what I've seen) will out do that extra attack.

It should give you a decent atk boost not just acc. STR and DEX too. Unless you have dusk hands +1 or a relic that gives haste, drk/drg are best in perle gear. The extra stats should be better overall than the DA.

As for STP builds... I'm not largely up on drgs stp build, I usually throw on rose strap with my normal ***and I'm good to go. With the new magian weapons with lower delay that's something I can't comment on. Might have to resort to goading belt or if you can't get that back to askar body and homam mix.
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 Ifrit.Jurai
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By Ifrit.Jurai 2010-08-04 01:45:54  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
What polearm do you intend to upgrade to?
I don't have plans for the current ones. Seems a waste of time without knowing what is coming since that ones you make now will be outdone by the ones that released in the future.

I'm doing fov now after pting in my new Perle items and the only thing I can tell a difference in is my lost of double attack. My normal hits doing basically the same and acc not an issue.
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 Asura.Karbuncle
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By Asura.Karbuncle 2010-08-04 01:52:26  
Ifrit.Jurai said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Perle is not the new "best" but it is certainly the new standard as opposed to an equivalent haste Homam setup. Go with full Perle. If you choose to make an STP Stingray you can use Pole Grip again, but if you make a def down or eva down polearm you'll still need Rose Strap.
Right, it's the new standard but I'm not sure it's better. Sure gives a boost to attack and acc but if you don't need that acc, double attack (from what I've seen) will out do that extra attack.

Simplest way to find your best answer is to look at a comparison between the two sets, the one you use now and the one you're thinking of using.

5 Armor pieces in question only:
Full Perle offers:

14% Haste
STR +22
DEX +14
VIT +10
Attack +25
Accuracy +18
"Critical hit rate" +2%

Your current build offers:

14% Haste
HP+107
MP+107
STR+5
Attack+12
Accuracy+13
Evasion+12
Double Attack +2%
Store TP +5

Leaving out the Fast Cast/Ranged Accuracy/Enmity, on both armors, being relatively useless in terms of a Melee's perspective.

You're gaining 2% Double attack, 5Store TP, and 12 Evasion as well as a boost to HP/MP in your current set, and sacrificing:

17STR
14DEX
10VIT
13Attack
5Accuracy
2%Critical hit rate.

Full Perle looks like the better choice, my bet is the 17STR, 13Attack, and 2% Critical hit rate and (when needed) 5Accuracy might increase your dot a little more than 2% Double Attack.

Now, You'll need to make up the Store TP if you lose your six hit (You likely will), Rose Strap is a good idea.

So you'll have to take that into account.

So 2%Dbl.atk for 4Store TP trade off added to the above comparison (if its bringing you up a X-hit).

uhhhhhh, sooo many variablleesssssss.

I'd go with Full Perle, thats just me =\
Ifrit.Jurai said:

I don't have plans for the current ones. Seems a waste of time without knowing what is coming since that ones you make now will be outdone by the ones that released in the future.

I'm doing fov now after pting in my new Perle items and the only thing I can tell a difference in is my lost of double attack. My normal hits doing basically the same and acc not an issue.

Thats the nice thing when it comes to Magian trials, You can still ugprade them.

Pick a path you like (Str Polearm? high Damage?) and next update when they do release higher magian trials you can still upgrade it.

Unless i'm misunderstanding you =(

Also Eyeballing on EP mobs isn't the best way to decide on rearranging your TP Set, unless all you do on DRG is Fields of Valor it won't give you a good perspective.
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 Gilgamesh.Samuraiking
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By Gilgamesh.Samuraiking 2010-08-04 01:58:02  
4% DA loss is only really 4 hits out of every 100 lost. It's all in your mind tbh. You are gaining a lot more stats which imo make up for it, not to mention the few extra acc never hurt when you're fighting different stuff, most ***76+ has higher eva than birds at merit did anyway.

If you wanna keep your current set I wouldn't say you were gimp, but imo full perle is better, math wise it's a decent increase too.

If you get dusk+1 hands or when/if they add homam to the magians next update it your old set might be back on top, just for right now perle is for MOST drgs/drks.
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 Ifrit.Jurai
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By Ifrit.Jurai 2010-08-04 01:59:23  
Asura.Karbuncle said:
Ifrit.Jurai said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Perle is not the new "best" but it is certainly the new standard as opposed to an equivalent haste Homam setup. Go with full Perle. If you choose to make an STP Stingray you can use Pole Grip again, but if you make a def down or eva down polearm you'll still need Rose Strap.
Right, it's the new standard but I'm not sure it's better. Sure gives a boost to attack and acc but if you don't need that acc, double attack (from what I've seen) will out do that extra attack.

Simplest way to find your best answer is to look at a comparison between the two sets, the one you use now and the one you're thinking of using.

5 Armor pieces in question only:
Full Perle offers:

14% Haste
STR +22
DEX +14
VIT +10
Attack +25
Accuracy +18
"Critical hit rate" +2%

Your current build offers:

14% Haste
HP+107
MP+107
STR+5
Attack+12
Accuracy+13
Evasion+12
Double Attack +2%
Store TP +5

Leaving out the Fast Cast/Ranged Accuracy/Enmity, on both armors, being relatively useless in terms of a Melee's perspective.

You're gaining 2% Double attack, 5Store TP, and 12 Evasion as well as a boost to HP/MP in your current set, and sacrificing:

17STR
14DEX
10VIT
13Attack
5Accuracy
2%Critical hit rate.

I don't really see a reason to wear a blend tbh, Full Perle looks like the better choice, my bet is the 17STR, 13Attack, and 2% Critical hit rate and (when needed) 5Accuracy might increase your dot a little more than 2% Double Attack.

Now, You'll need to make up the Store TP if you lose your six hit (You likely will), Rose Strap is a good idea.

So you'll have to take that into account.

So 2%Dbl.atk for 4Store TP trade off added to the above comparison (if its bringing you up a X-hit).

uhhhhhh, sooo many variablleesssssss.

I'd go with Full Perle, thats just me =\
Ifrit.Jurai said:

I'm doing fov now after pting in my new Perle items and the only thing I can tell a difference in is my lost of double attack. My normal hits doing basically the same and acc not an issue.

Thats the nice thing when it comes to Magian trials, You can still ugprade them.

Pick a path you like (Str Polearm? high Damage?) and next update when they do release higher magian trials you can still upgrade it.

Unless i'm misunderstanding you =(

(Edit: Also i accidentally deleted the first part of that post, that was to your Magian polearm comment.)

I'm losing 4% DA, 2 from strap and 2 from Askar body.

I'm sacing

17STR
14DEX
10VIT
13Attack
5Accuracy
2%Critical hit rate

because:
the str and attack doesn't matter for tping (if double attack is doing more dmg)
dex and acc doesn't matter cause my acc is fine

the double attack I'm losing does more dmg than those stats that i'm 'sacing'.

--

Pick a path you like (Str Polearm? high Damage?) and next update when they do release higher magian trials you can still upgrade it.

You don't know what the next path will be- maybe str+ one now is good but the next path they make might be bad compared to others.

 Asura.Karbuncle
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By Asura.Karbuncle 2010-08-04 02:02:38  
Ahaha... HAHAHAHA

Okay, okay.

Well, Good luck i hope you find your answer.

Edit: You know, actually, What do you use your DRG for that you can say STR, Attack, Acc does not matter for your overall TP phase Damage output?

And why ask for advice if you're going to ignore what everyone is telling you (Perle is better).
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-08-04 02:04:39  
In that case, we turn to

14% Haste
STR +22
DEX +14
Attack +25
Accuracy +18
"Critical hit rate" +2%

vs

14% Haste
STR+5
Attack+12
Accuracy+13
Double Attack +4%

Which comes out to 17 STR 14 DEX 13 attack 5 acc 2 crit vs 4% DA. Break down and regroup: 4-5 fSTR ~3% crit rate 25.75 attack 5 acc vs 4% DA. All told that's well over a 10% increase in TP phase damage given your current set as compared to a global increase of 3.81% minus loss to overflow and increased JA delay from more WS. You'd be looking at a ~35:65 TP:WS split (jumps and resulting WS not included) or possibly a split favoring WS even further for the DA build to be competitive, and DRG's DPS is not nearly that skewed over towards WS damage.

EDIT: 35:65 was a high buff situation. If you're not getting attack buffs in addition to haste buffs, it pulls away further to the point that it's absolutely no contest.
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 Gilgamesh.Samuraiking
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By Gilgamesh.Samuraiking 2010-08-04 02:07:14  
I actually thought he was going to be civil and intelligent but I guess not karb. :/

Some people stick to the DA trait like glue and eyeball it thinking 4% is going to come out to 20% extra dmg somehow. It doesn't. It's effect stays positive each time you stack it on, but it gets LESS beneficial than haste. Haste is always a steady climb and completely different really.

I've said my peace, since you think DA is better, GL.
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 Ifrit.Jurai
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By Ifrit.Jurai 2010-08-04 02:09:40  
Asura.Karbuncle said:
Ahaha... HAHAHAHA

Okay, okay.

Well, Good luck i hope you find your answer.

Edit: You know, actually, What do you use your DRG for that you can say STR, Attack, Acc does not matter for your overall TP phase Damage output?

And why ask for advice if you're going to ignore what everyone is telling you (Perle is better).

I'm asking for advice yes, not biased opinions. For me, Perle does not seem better. I'm asking for help on why it is considered better.
 Bismarck.Elanabelle
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2010-08-04 02:11:53  
Jurai:

The gear (head/body/hands/legs/feet) in the OP and 5/5 Perle both grant 14% haste total.

The OP gear also has 13 acc, 12 att, and 5 STR.
5/5 Perle has 18 acc, 25 att, 22 STR, and 14 DEX.

Based on that comparison alone, 5/5 Perle is the better choice, hands-down.

However, for the weapon you're using (delay 492), when subbing /SAM, you need Askar Body to maintain 6-hits for 100 TP. Thus, I would keep the equipment you're using in the OP for DRG/SAM, when you are WS'ing @ 100 TP. That situation, and when you are subbing a mage job, are the only times I would use the Askar/Homam OP gear set.

If you're subbing /WAR or /NIN, you're not going to be getting 6-hits for 100 TP, in either gear set. You need to equip 8 points of STP to maintain 7-hits for 100 TP. Rajas Ring + Brutal Earring takes care of 6 STP points, but you still need 2 more. Askar Body could do that, but you'd be losing out on the acc/att/STR/DEX bonuses from 5/5 Perle. Instead, I would switch to Rose Strap and use the 5/5 Perle for DRG/WAR or DRG/NIN.

Sorry for the length of the reply. There's nothing "wrong" with the OP gear set. It's very good. It's just not optimal in all situations. If you're in a crunch for inventory space, I would understand not wanting to stock both the Askar/Homam set and the Perle set. But, if you want to get down to the technical aspects and push DRG as your main job, then use the Askar/Homam/Pole set for /SAM and /WHM, but use a 5/5 Perle/Rose set for /WAR and /NIN.

Please don't use the gear set that Rellz posted. Mixing Homam and Perle gimps your damage output somewhat. The biggest plus of using Perle equipment comes from using all 5 pieces for the total 14% Haste (there's a misprint on the helm's description). Using Rellz gear set you'd only get 13% haste, you wouldn't get 6-hit with SAM sub, nor would you get 7-hit with WAR or NIN sub. Rellz would be better off using 5/5 Perle and Rose Strap for all subjobs, unless he has Askar or Aurum Body AND Homam or Barbarossa's legs for DRG/SAM.
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 Ifrit.Jurai
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By Ifrit.Jurai 2010-08-04 02:12:46  
Gilgamesh.Samuraiking said:
I actually thought he was going to be civil and intelligent but I guess not karb. :/

Some people stick to the DA trait like glue and eyeball it thinking 4% is going to come out to 20% extra dmg somehow. It doesn't. It's effect stays positive each time you stack it on, but it gets LESS beneficial than haste. Haste is always a steady climb and completely different really.

I've said my peace, since you think DA is better, GL.

I don't know if DA is better- that's what I'm asking. In my experience it is. So I'm asking for peeps to prove that it is not.

I'm seeing hardly any dmg increse and no add increase from Perle, only a loss in my DA- which adds more dmg than the att boost from Perle.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-08-04 02:14:02  
Ifrit.Jurai said:
I'm asking for advice yes, not biased opinions. For me, Perle does not seem better. I'm asking for help on why it is considered better.
Because it is in fact better, see above.
Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
However, for the weapon you're using (delay 492), when subbing /SAM, you need Askar Body to maintain 6-hits for 100 TP.
Rose strap
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 Gilgamesh.Samuraiking
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By Gilgamesh.Samuraiking 2010-08-04 02:17:43  
Ifrit.Jurai said:
Gilgamesh.Samuraiking said:
I actually thought he was going to be civil and intelligent but I guess not karb. :/

Some people stick to the DA trait like glue and eyeball it thinking 4% is going to come out to 20% extra dmg somehow. It doesn't. It's effect stays positive each time you stack it on, but it gets LESS beneficial than haste. Haste is always a steady climb and completely different really.

I've said my peace, since you think DA is better, GL.

I don't know if DA is better- that's what I'm asking. In my experience it is. So I'm asking for peeps to prove that it is not.

I'm seeing hardly any dmg increse and no add increase from Perle, only a loss in my DA- which adds more dmg than the att boost from Perle.

You didn't ask, you basically outright said, or made it seem that you didn't want to listen. I'm not gonna throw down a math formula for you I'm sure night can do that, but you need to stop eyeballing stuff. Use a parse or you are probably incorrect.

4% DA won't overcome the str/dex/atk boost. You are probably not only eyeballing it, but testing it on weak mobs where your ATK is capped.

Set up a 2hour merit with the same ppl and same mobs, parsing 1hour with full perle + rose and the other in ur current set. Perle will win, it's math. Now like we all said, if you get dusk+1 hands, the extra haste will win.

Just to clarify 2 points, you know that DA4% = ONLY 4 more hits every 100 swings right? Also, perle set has same haste as your current set, the head is 3% not 2%. It's a missprint.
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 Ifrit.Jurai
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By Ifrit.Jurai 2010-08-04 02:18:45  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ifrit.Jurai said:
I'm asking for advice yes, not biased opinions. For me, Perle does not seem better. I'm asking for help on why it is considered better.
Because it is in fact better, see above.
I've seen above and it doesn't make it better. My acc is fine with out without Perle, and the extra attack from Perle adds less damage for me than the double attack from askar/pole.
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By Gilgamesh.Samuraiking 2010-08-04 02:20:44  
Ifrit.Jurai said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ifrit.Jurai said:
I'm asking for advice yes, not biased opinions. For me, Perle does not seem better. I'm asking for help on why it is considered better.
Because it is in fact better, see above.
I've seen above and it doesn't make it better. My acc is fine with out without Perle, and the extra attack from Perle adds less damage for me than the double attack from askar/pole.

You are a lost cause....


Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ifrit.Jurai said:
I'm asking for advice yes, not biased opinions. For me, Perle does not seem better. I'm asking for help on why it is considered better.
Because it is in fact better, see above.
Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
However, for the weapon you're using (delay 492), when subbing /SAM, you need Askar Body to maintain 6-hits for 100 TP.
Rose strap

I didn't even pay attention to that, I hope Elana never levels drg past 7. I've never seen her post one coherent thing on the boards. I'm sure she will get butthurt at me for saying this like she did before, can't wait for her to post something else on my page because she can't defend herself with logic. :(
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-08-04 02:23:14  
Ifrit.Jurai said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ifrit.Jurai said:
I'm asking for advice yes, not biased opinions. For me, Perle does not seem better. I'm asking for help on why it is considered better.
Because it is in fact better, see above.
I've seen above and it doesn't make it better. My acc is fine with out without Perle, and the extra attack from Perle adds less damage for me than the double attack from askar/pole.
You can say that until you're blue in the face but it doesn't make you any less wrong. You'd need to be pDIF or fSTR capped for the Askar build to have a serious shot at being superior, which means you're either fighting TW mobs or getting massive attack buffs. Nothing in your gear suggests you have BRD DNC COR support for everything and nobody really cares how you gear for TW mobs, so I don't feel that's applicable here.
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 Ifrit.Jurai
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By Ifrit.Jurai 2010-08-04 02:30:23  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ifrit.Jurai said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ifrit.Jurai said:
I'm asking for advice yes, not biased opinions. For me, Perle does not seem better. I'm asking for help on why it is considered better.
Because it is in fact better, see above.
I've seen above and it doesn't make it better. My acc is fine with out without Perle, and the extra attack from Perle adds less damage for me than the double attack from askar/pole.
You can say that until you're blue in the face but it doesn't make you any less wrong. You'd need to be pDIF or fSTR capped for the Askar build to have a serious shot at being superior, which means you're either fighting TW mobs or getting massive attack buffs. Nothing in your gear suggests you have BRD DNC COR support for everything and nobody really cares how you gear for TW mobs, so I don't feel that's applicable here.
I was not getting any attack buff or fighting TW. Pt In Mis. Coast.

This is what I'm trying to explain for my situation- what do you mean 'superior'? More dmg per hit with Perle? Of course Perle will out do what I have now for that. But I'm saying that my extra double attacks are out doing the extra dmg gained from the attack on Perle set.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-08-04 02:32:22  
Ifrit.Jurai said:
what do you mean 'superior'?
Better total damage in a given timeframe, and for ***'s sake it's more than just attack.

Feel like I'm arguing with a brick wall here...
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 Gilgamesh.Samuraiking
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By Gilgamesh.Samuraiking 2010-08-04 02:34:14  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ifrit.Jurai said:
what do you mean 'superior'?
Better total damage in a given timeframe, and for ***'s sake it's more than just attack.

Just stop, he is retarded and won't listen.
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