RELIC: Which Is Better ?? Apocalypse // Amanomurakumo

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2010-06-21
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RELIC: which is better ?? Apocalypse // Amanomurakumo
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 Hades.Zelera
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By Hades.Zelera 2010-05-25 19:55:27  
help me need advice on which weapon to make !!! for the best buck spend !
 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-05-25 19:56:51  
Apoc.

Amanomurakumo is beaten by Hagun on all but the highest-DEF-HNM situations.
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 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-05-25 19:57:53  
Apoc enhances DRK more than Amano enhances SAM. The decision is then up to you: whether you feel that SAM + relatively small enhancement is still more fun/useful to you than DRK + relatively large enhancement.
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 Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-05-25 19:58:09  
considering a perfectly geared(sans relic) WAR or SAM can outparse a relic dark, Amanomurakumo.

but i think it's a pretty bad time in the game's lifespan to be starting a relic

Edit: Nightfyre's link to Thorny's math proving it.

Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
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 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-05-25 20:00:30  
I've always been a bit skeptical of those claims above; they tend to neglect DRK's Souleater a fair bit which is a big reason to use the relic. That said I also don't think the gap between the DDs is as big as people like to think so muh.
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-25 20:00:31  
SAM may be the more powerful DD, but Apoc is the more significant improvement to its job. Good utility weapon as well.

Also,
Quote:
Amanomurakumo is beaten by Hagun on all but the highest-DEF-HNM situations.
False, HNM is where Hagun wins since it'll do stronger YGK. Kaiten is Amano's strong point and it doesn't get a pDIF boost like YGK. If you're engaged fulltime Amano would win even with Gekko spam though.
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 Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2010-05-25 20:01:59  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
SAM may be the more powerful DD, but Apoc is the more significant improvement to its job. Good utility weapon as well.
that, and Yoichi is better for SAM, anyways
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 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-05-25 20:03:34  
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
considering a perfectly geared(sans relic) WAR or SAM can outparse a relic dark, Amanomurakumo.

but i think it's a pretty bad time in the game's lifespan to be starting a relic
I'm going to go ahead and disagree with this. Pitting a SAM with perfect gear and a DRK with perfect gear, both with capped Haste, Double March and Haste spell, both with relic weapons (Or Polearm), on Greater Colibri, and both with capped ACC eating meat, DRK will damn near always win. You're swinging faster, doing more damage per hit, and about the same per WS. You're also WSing more frequently, and draining HP back at an alarming rate, using Dread Spikes, Catastrophe, and whatever else you feel like using. Not only are you the pivotal DD in said situation, you're also a one-man-army, keeping yourself alive.
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-25 20:09:17  
Drk won't beat a top notch polearm sam, not even close on birds
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 Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-05-25 20:10:30  
seen the math on bluegartls, trying to find the thread and failing, still looking though

i think a 5 hit polearm sam will be wsing faster than a 6-hit relic dark

no argument about the dark self healing, that's something you can't assign a direct parse value to
 Hades.Excelior
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By Hades.Excelior 2010-05-25 20:12:01  
Why are you comparing two relics for two jobs that serve completely different functions in the game? Apocs strong point is that it allows drk to keep up with other DDs while not being a burden on mages MP. Amano is useful for creating double light SCs for MBs on fafnir and other situations that require a simliar strategy. If you want a relic that actually helps your LS perform better than get a Ghorn end of conversation. If you want a relic for your own personal use then get w/e you comfortable with, they are both situationally stronger than the other by a great deal.
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 Sylph.Kimble
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By Sylph.Kimble 2010-05-25 20:15:00  
Q: Whats better, Apocalypse or Amanomurakumo?

A: Gjallarhorn
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-25 20:16:31  
Sylph.Kimble said:
Q: Whats better, Apocalypse or Amanomurakumo?

A: Kenkonken
fixed
 Hades.Excelior
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By Hades.Excelior 2010-05-25 20:16:59  
Actually what I was saying is neither is better. They are both situationally the most useful. People who compare these things generally have no concept of strategy in ffxi and just parse their ***on pink birds.
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-25 20:17:21  
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
seen the math on bluegartls, trying to find the thread and failing, still looking though

i think a 5 hit polearm sam will be wsing faster than a 6-hit relic dark

no argument about the dark self healing, that's something you can't assign a direct parse value to
If memory serves it was a post by Thorny in the Media section, I'll see if I can find it.
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 Sylph.Kimble
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By Sylph.Kimble 2010-05-25 20:17:41  
In all honesty, imo Apocalypse can change a way that DRK plays while Amanourakumo wont change anything really.
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 Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2010-05-25 20:19:23  


I lol'd.

Also get a Claustrum.
 Cerberus.Retinn
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By Cerberus.Retinn 2010-05-25 20:19:27  
Siren.Enternius said:
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
considering a perfectly geared(sans relic) WAR or SAM can outparse a relic dark, Amanomurakumo.

but i think it's a pretty bad time in the game's lifespan to be starting a relic
I'm going to go ahead and disagree with this. Pitting a SAM with perfect gear and a DRK with perfect gear, both with capped Haste, Double March and Haste spell, both with relic weapons (Or Polearm), on Greater Colibri, and both with capped ACC eating meat, DRK will damn near always win. You're swinging faster, doing more damage per hit, and about the same per WS. You're also WSing more frequently, and draining HP back at an alarming rate, using Dread Spikes, Catastrophe, and whatever else you feel like using. Not only are you the pivotal DD in said situation, you're also a one-man-army, keeping yourself alive.


Try 1k Cata and 1.5k Kaiten on average. Also, "using dread spikes". You lost me there. The times it takes to cast those spikes a decked relic sam has demolished a bird:) Try to merit with the good ones and it will show.
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 Hades.Excelior
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By Hades.Excelior 2010-05-25 20:21:54  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
seen the math on bluegartls, trying to find the thread and failing, still looking though i think a 5 hit polearm sam will be wsing faster than a 6-hit relic dark no argument about the dark self healing, that's something you can't assign a direct parse value to
If memory serves it was a post by Thorny in the Media section, I'll see if I can find it.

You can parse that. You look at damage taken and who was cured the least. For example in a merit party last time i parsed I took 25k damage(the most out of the party) and was only healed for 5k total. That means cata healed 20/25k damage or 80% of the damage done.
 Cerberus.Retinn
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By Cerberus.Retinn 2010-05-25 20:22:58  
"Last time you parsed", didnt you get Apoc like 2 days ago?:D
 Hades.Excelior
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By Hades.Excelior 2010-05-25 20:23:51  
I've been meriting a lot since then lol. Using parse every time to see how gimp my drk is >_>
Obviously this is only initial testing but I doubt bird partys very THAT much that I would see different results there.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-25 20:24:43  
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3279197&postcount=504

Draw your own conclusions.
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 Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-05-25 20:25:54  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
seen the math on bluegartls, trying to find the thread and failing, still looking though

i think a 5 hit polearm sam will be wsing faster than a 6-hit relic dark

no argument about the dark self healing, that's something you can't assign a direct parse value to
If memory serves it was a post by Thorny in the Media section, I'll see if I can find it.


yeah i think it may have been in a drop thread for some random reason, been so long since i saw it ><

between all the threads there being 50 pages and bluegartls not cooperating with google like ffxiah does, stuff there is more difficult for me to dig up
 Sylph.Kimble
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By Sylph.Kimble 2010-05-25 20:26:12  
Looks like Relic DRK vs Perdu WAR to me.
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-05-25 20:26:38  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:


you are awesome

i bow to your search skills
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-25 20:27:37  
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
seen the math on bluegartls, trying to find the thread and failing, still looking though

i think a 5 hit polearm sam will be wsing faster than a 6-hit relic dark

no argument about the dark self healing, that's something you can't assign a direct parse value to
If memory serves it was a post by Thorny in the Media section, I'll see if I can find it.


yeah i think it may have been in a drop thread for some random reason, been so long since i saw it ><

between all the threads there being 50 pages and bluegartls not cooperating with google like ffxiah does, stuff there is more difficult for me to dig up
Indeed it was! It was also the first result for me =P Posts by Thorny, keyword Souleater, Media section only, sort by relevance. Expected to have to look a bit harder though lol.
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 Cerberus.Mofongo
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By Cerberus.Mofongo 2010-05-25 20:28:40  
apoc...

amano is a waste of gil and time.
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 Cerberus.Retinn
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By Cerberus.Retinn 2010-05-25 20:30:34  
Cerberus.Mofongo said:
apoc...

amano is a waste of gil and time.
Puerto Ricans doesn't have a say ;)
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 Carbuncle.Alnitak
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By Carbuncle.Alnitak 2010-05-25 20:34:54  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Indeed it was! It was also the first result for me =P Posts by Thorny, keyword Souleater, Media section only, sort by relevance. Expected to have to look a bit harder though lol.

lol, maybe i should have considered using the bluegartls search instead of google

oh well, learn something every day XD
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