Need An Electricians's Assistance. DELL Fans.

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2010-06-21
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Need an electricians's assistance. DELL Fans.
 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2010-02-21 21:56:03  
This will probably be a simple question to answer for someone...

Some background information:

We have a slew of DELL servers and our company has decided to implement a large scale water cooling solution for our data centers. As many of you know DELL has 3, 4 and 5 pin fan connectors built on their serverboards/motherboards and when a fan is disconnected from one of them you receive the annoying

Alert! Fan failure.
Press F1 to Retry / Continue, F2 to Run setup util...

You can not disable fan check in the System Setup on a DELL machine. So what I'm looking for is what do I need to not "short", eg with a resistor or a capacitor, but connect between the +5v and GND pins to dissipate the 5v of energy and make the system "think" there's a fan there.

Thanks.

+ Something cost effective that we can replicate thousands of times... And we can't use the pins on board to power the individual pumps because the male molex(s) are soldered on and don't provide enough power input.
 Kujata.Akeda
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By Kujata.Akeda 2010-02-22 00:43:29  
Quote:
our company has decided to implement a large scale water cooling solution

Water cooling a Data Center? Why? Is your company HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE or just full of fail? Water cooling isn't intended to be used in a server or mission critical environment. I don't know why they don't put the servers in an A/C controlled room like everyone else does.

The company and IT dept both sound full of fail. If the boss says 'lets remove the fans cause they're noisy' or 'I'd be cool if we used water to cool our computers', the IT guy(s) should have the balls to explain why that isn't a good idea. I can think of several myself, the biggest being that real servers being used in a production environment are not toys and when it fails the IT guy get the blame.





Anyways, I have no clue how you'd emulate 5v, but I'm sure the computer is also using RPM monitoring to make sure the fans are spinning. So you might want to look into that too. What I'm more curious about is why don't you just plug in the fans for the radiator into the fan headers? Problem solved. (I'm also really curious how a DC is going to maintain any reasonable amount of uptime, but that's not really my problem.)



Edit: Just thought of this. Wouldn't your idea just be counter productive? The created electricity would be dissipated in the form of heat and unnecessary heat is bad.
 Leviathan.Erang
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By Leviathan.Erang 2010-02-22 01:05:31  
custom LED light kits? heh.
 Siren.Eagleeyes
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By Siren.Eagleeyes 2010-02-22 01:09:30  
>watercooling
>not overclocking
>server data base



 Diabolos.Rydiya
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By Diabolos.Rydiya 2010-02-22 01:18:01  
Siren.Eagleeyes said:
>watercooling
>not overclocking
>server data base
>Dell


>.> Fixed.
 Fenrir.Scragg
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By Fenrir.Scragg 2010-02-22 01:22:45  
FFXIAH runs on dells, don't hate
 
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 Diabolos.Rydiya
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By Diabolos.Rydiya 2010-02-22 01:31:26  
Fenrir.Scragg said:
FFXIAH runs on dells, don't hate
Lol. Sorry. I'm just a fan of Self-built servers. :x It's what my family does.
 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2010-02-22 04:51:14  
Kujata.Akeda said:
Water cooling a Data Center? Why? Is your company HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE or just full of fail? Water cooling isn't intended to be used in a server or mission critical environment. I don't know why they don't put the servers in an A/C controlled room like everyone else does.

Short Answer: HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, no. Fail, no. Water cooling issue in a server environment, if you're thinking about workstation gigs and $200 all in one packages, you're right. However, we're a bit more sophisticated. We are currently operating on an air cooling infrastructure. Forced air cooling costs us millions every year. We expect ROI turnaround to be 2-3 years if it works out. Our water cooling solution by our contractor consumes less than 50% of electrical energy. As far as external energy issues go, this isn't just an IT based project.

Kujata.Akeda said:
The company and IT dept both sound full of fail. If the boss says 'lets remove the fans cause they're noisy' or 'I'd be cool if we used water to cool our computers', the IT guy(s) should have the balls to explain why that isn't a good idea. I can think of several myself, the biggest being that real servers being used in a production environment are not toys and when it fails the IT guy get the blame.

Company and IT fail, no. Bosses idea, no. It turned out to be a good idea. I've stated on other forums, when it comes to the feasibility factor we're only initiating testing at our HQ office, if it poses to be a problem, we will revert and cancel implementation. If not, we move forward with the project nationwide at our larger campuses. I can understand your point of view if your company has limited resources and funds to work. We simply have a little more breathing room.

Kujata.Akeda said:
Anyways, I have no clue how you'd emulate 5v, but I'm sure the computer is also using RPM monitoring to make sure the fans are spinning. So you might want to look into that too. What I'm more curious about is why don't you just plug in the fans for the radiator into the fan headers? Problem solved. (I'm also really curious how a DC is going to maintain any reasonable amount of uptime, but that's not really my problem.)

That is the problem we are facing. Yes, there is a pin dedicated to fan monitoring but that is based on the application layer post boot to fetch related data, so it's not an issue for us. Again, we're not using standard radiator single system coolers. Our radiator runs externally and a trunk of pipes run directly to the module processors that require cooling. As for up time issues, we are more than capable to maintain up time even if half our servers went down.

Kujata.Akeda said:
Edit: Just thought of this. Wouldn't your idea just be counter productive? The created electricity would be dissipated in the form of heat and unnecessary heat is bad.

We have plans to recycle the heat dissipated in place to our heating system but that will be on a very small scale.


Leviathan.Erang said:
custom LED light kits? heh.

You may think it's funny but it's one of the best ways to handle the situation and it's sitting near the top of our fallout solutions :).



Eagleeyes & Rydia. Modular water cooling > Forced air induction in a large scale environment. No one said anything about overclocking & it's silly to even retain that term in your head today. But if you're fanboys I understand. A "server" in my world is more than an i7 PC with a fan slapped on top of it. And I'm pretty sure DELL sees it that way too. Outside of your ... posts, 'ignorance is bliss'.
 
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 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2010-02-22 11:32:41  
Fenrir.Abrupt said:
Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
fancy words

All good argument for the use of watercooling, but in the end, I think you're going to find it's a pain in the goddamn ***. There's no doubt the efficiency levels rock compared to air-based, and when left alone it can be highly effective, but maintaining the cooling systems will be obnoxious, without a doubt, and may incur hidden costs in manpower and time. I'm sure someone got a fat bonus check however for showing a lot of theory math on how many hojillions of dollars this will save, so whether it's your idea or not, it is your job to make it work and work well.

In my experience, fluid pumps tend to have much less longevity than basic air fans, even though the mechanisms should be pretty similar. Anytime you need to replace parts that have failed over time you'll have to deal with the fluids and the annoyances of ensuring no air bubbles get trapped in the system.

If you had unlimited resources I think it would have genuinely been more efficient to create a cooling system that more directly paths conditioned air through the systems and out as opposed to just mass cooling the room they're in. Maybe work on a setup that makes it easy to get the systems in and out for maint as well.

Whatever to all that. As for getting what you're trying to do working, the process of creating a dummy fan to bypass fan failure recognition has been done before, and I was able to find a thread where they discuss what had to be done here. You basically have to send a responding frequency to the third pin that matches the expected RPM rate the system is looking for. It's just pulsing that line as the fan turns, once per revolution - if the fan is physically stopped, the pulse naturally stops and the system can tell the fan is not physically turning. Even if you rig a device that responds properly to pass the initial BIOS load, you'll want to make sure you rig one that appropriately behaves across the expected fan speed range, which should pass the 'fan tests' for high/low/off speeds in the Dell diagnostics. Once you've got a setup done, have them manufactured and hope they're reliable.

Beyond that, I'm thinking using systems from OEMs that don't directly support watercooling in the servers is probably not a good idea, mostly just because the systems just weren't designed with your objectives in mind. Whatever manufacturer you choose to go with would be hard pressed to support your self-developed solutions if problems are encountered, and future changes to their lines also may not take into account your custom systems. Maybe your organization should consider custom building the entire servers from selected components? Could be just what you guys need.

Thanks for one of the more useful posts I've read over the forums I've posted this question on. We've researched the option/link/solution you provided however it will not solve the problem we are having. This will compensate for the 2-4 processor cooling fans but the power supply fans do not register under the same check. You can manually stop the fans and the inductor, while may be sending signals to pins 3, 4 or 5, will not make a difference pre OS boot like the processor fans do. As far as OEM support issues go, we've already covered everything as far as physical schematics go but thank you for the concern.

A lot of people are objecting to our plan because it's new, complicated and still very much in development. However these are issues we've already covered with our contractor and I have no need to follow up here. If anyone's interested feel free to PM me.


Fenrir.Abrupt said:
Edit:

Just saw this:
Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
Eagleeyes & Rydia. Modular water cooling > Forced air induction in a large scale environment. No one said anything about overclocking & it's silly to even retain that term in your head today. But if you're fanboys I understand. A "server" in my world is more than an i7 PC with a fan slapped on top of it. And I'm pretty sure DELL sees it that way too. Outside of your ... posts, 'ignorance is bliss'.

Way to look like a douche while asking enthusiasts for assistance with something that falls into their realm of expertise.

We are a very solid team of IT pros however not a single one of us in this financial company are electricians. I reply to childish posts with, "douchebag" posts. I'm here in good will, not to argue, make fun or slander other people. The 2 did the exact opposite. I came here requesting help from electricians or people with the knowledge there of. And from I've seen they're far from "enthusiasts". As I stated above a lot of people don't agree with the type of modifications we're making but someone must take the first step. Anyway, I rather keep this conversation clean and on topic. However if people wish to take knowledge that don't pertain to the OP and post a cluster of senseless non conversant replies, I'll gladly take this discussion elsewhere. Otherwise I would love to promote learning in good faith.
 Leviathan.Erang
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By Leviathan.Erang 2010-02-22 14:05:02  
i wasnt being funny! i just thought it was funny at how simple the solution was :P
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