Micro-Transactions In FFXIV?

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2010-06-21
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Micro-Transactions in FFXIV?
 Siren.Aytac
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By Siren.Aytac 2009-12-18 11:47:40  
If they are going to sell items for real cash, then they should eliminate the monthly subscription fee. I have run into a few online games that are free to play, but they make money by selling in-game products. Anywho...if this is at all true about "micro-transactions" I will either stick with ffxi or invest my time into the real world.
 Pandemonium.Liquidz
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By Pandemonium.Liquidz 2009-12-18 12:30:53  
I foresee a monthly fee at least as big as the one we have right now + micro-transactions and I won't be any surprised if those micro-transactions includes plain gils buying. That's how it is now. Maybe they will lose some customers who are thinking that it's not fair but SE won't give a ***about it since they will made way more money with the people who are willing to do those micro-transaction.

It will always be more rewarding to farm your gils and items with hard work than getting it with the credit card. Farming will always give a sense of accomplishment you won't get with micro-transaction. Now if you are farming for hours to get great stuff just to look good in town when people are checking you then you might be in the part who will be angry that kids can ask daddy for the credit card and outgear you in a few minutes. It all comes down to which kind of player you are. Some people will feel pressured and will spend some real life money to get better faster to be accepted in elitist groups(happening right now, just "illegal"). If you just play the game for a fun time with friends then micro-transaction should not bother you in any way.
 Fairy.Tbest
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By Fairy.Tbest 2009-12-18 12:57:03  
Yep. Legal gil-selling through SE will reduce the illegal sales and force them to lower their prices. It's a win, win situation for the player! =)
 Asura.Misuto
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By Asura.Misuto 2009-12-18 13:11:43  
On a related note..

http://kotaku.com/5426749/square-enix-launches-virtual-money-you-can-really-buy

SE launched "Crysta" - a virtual currency.
Haven't seen this mentioned yet. Heh.
 Carbuncle.Corrderio
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By Carbuncle.Corrderio 2009-12-18 13:33:02  
To me it depends on what they're going to sell. If it's services like Character/Race/Name change it won't be that bad. However if you can buy temp. EXP bonuses and strong gear I won't even bother with this game.
 Bahamut.Kormix
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By Bahamut.Kormix 2009-12-18 13:36:51  
Yea, Crysta... well I guess if you can't beat the gilsellers, join em huh?
If they integrate this Crysta crap into FFXIV count me out. There's enough segregation between the wealthy and the less fortunate in RL, don't need to see it in video games too.
 Carbuncle.Corrderio
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By Carbuncle.Corrderio 2009-12-18 13:38:44  
If I recall correctly Crysta was for another MMO SE was part of by the name "Fantasy Earth Zero", it currently has nothing to do with XIV
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2009-12-18 13:39:18  
Asura.Misuto said:
On a related note..

http://kotaku.com/5426749/square-enix-launches-virtual-money-you-can-really-buy

SE launched "Crysta" - a virtual currency.
Haven't seen this mentioned yet. Heh.


Oh, wow, this does not look promising at all. Of course, there's always the possibility it will never touch 14, but then there's a possibility that it will...
 Bahamut.Kormix
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By Bahamut.Kormix 2009-12-18 13:44:34  
Carbuncle.Corrderio said:
If I recall correctly Crysta was for another MMO SE was part of by the name "Fantasy Earth Zero", it currently has nothing to do with XIV


Idk, seems right up SE's alley to do something like this. They know the RMT will get their greasy little paws into FFXIV. SE would probably rather have the money in their hands instead of the GS. Plus look at all the stupid micro-transactions they're already tossing on us in FFXI... and we just snap 'em up. It was all probably some kinda test on SE's part to see if the playerbase was dumb enough to fall for this kinda ***... Judging by all the add-on content gear I see around, we obviously are.
 Carbuncle.Corrderio
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By Carbuncle.Corrderio 2009-12-18 13:54:10  
Well I do know that Fantasy Earth Zero had an item shop because while SE made it, another company is the one that's hosting the game and can do w/e they want with it. I'm pretty sure Crysta will be used for Fantasy Earth Zero, but can't comment on XIV quite yet.

I'm still going with a wait and see attitude, as long as it's for useless services it won't be so bad.
 Seraph.Caiyuo
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By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-12-18 13:57:23  
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
Asura.Misuto said:
On a related note..

http://kotaku.com/5426749/square-enix-launches-virtual-money-you-can-really-buy

SE launched "Crysta" - a virtual currency.
Haven't seen this mentioned yet. Heh.


Oh, wow, this does not look promising at all. Of course, there's always the possibility it will never touch 14, but then there's a possibility that it will...
I don't see why it wouldn't be integrated into FFXIV somehow since they made kind of a big deal about its launch, but as to how is another matter entirely. Naturally they'd coincide seeing as you'd purchase Crysta (sounds like someone's ugly sister, sorry to all Crystas out there) to be spent in an online gallery or in-game shop tied to your account, I'd presuuuume.

Personally I think the micro-transactions are going to be for character customizations and special items that I don't expect to be relevant to gear/stat oriented players. In that respect I could see if that's what they're referencing by saying "a lot of people want that kind of model" since even I've wanted some unique ways to make my character stand out since unless you're using an unpopular face/hair/model, Whitegate is just a sea of clones. "I'm the small model!" lol
 Bahamut.Kormix
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By Bahamut.Kormix 2009-12-18 14:09:36  
Seraph.Caiyuo said:
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
Asura.Misuto said:
On a related note..

http://kotaku.com/5426749/square-enix-launches-virtual-money-you-can-really-buy

SE launched "Crysta" - a virtual currency.
Haven't seen this mentioned yet. Heh.


Oh, wow, this does not look promising at all. Of course, there's always the possibility it will never touch 14, but then there's a possibility that it will...
I don't see why it wouldn't be integrated into FFXIV somehow since they made kind of a big deal about its launch, but as to how is another matter entirely. Naturally they'd coincide seeing as you'd purchase Crysta (sounds like someone's ugly sister, sorry to all Crystas out there) to be spent in an online gallery or in-game shop tied to your account, I'd presuuuume.

Personally I think the micro-transactions are going to be for character customizations and special items that I don't expect to be relevant to gear/stat oriented players. In that respect I could see if that's what they're referencing by saying "a lot of people want that kind of model" since even I've wanted some unique ways to make my character stand out since unless you're using an unpopular face/hair/model, Whitegate is just a sea of clones. "I'm the small model!" lol

Don't you think this should just be included in the next generation rather than be something we have to pay extra for on top of a monthly fee? Not interested in FFXIV = FFX1 "Now with more micro-transations!"
lol
 Lakshmi.Kitrah
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By Lakshmi.Kitrah 2009-12-18 14:18:18  
Siren.Ashkente said:
If anything, all this does is make me want to start a LS/guild/whatevertheyendupcallingthem, called "HardMode".

Simple rules:
1) If there is any form of RMT for improved stats, and you use it, you're booted.
2) If you're a PC player and you harp on about how everything's so much better with WindowerXIV, you're booted.
3) If you put together events that state 'we need at least 6blm's or this will take too long/have a chance of failure etc.' you're gone.

{Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.}
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 Seraph.Caiyuo
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By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-12-18 14:21:44  
Bahamut.Kormix said:
Don't you think this should just be included in the next generation rather than be something we have to pay extra for on top of a monthly fee? Not interested in FFXIV = FFX1 "Now with more micro-transations!"
lol
Ideally, yeah and considering it's real money I doubt I'll bite (maybe on cool hair ;w;) but I'd rather this as a better alternative as opposed to them selling nice endgame armor and weapons for lots of money. Since it's already happening I'm just hoping for the best now. lol
 Ifrit.Sabinblitz
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By Ifrit.Sabinblitz 2009-12-18 14:22:00  
If a person can earn $15 per hour in RL( and many people make alot more) then 2 hours of RL work for a million gil or many more hours of in game work for a million. Which do you think people will choose?

Personally, I hope the micro-transactions are strictly for appearance/novelty things.
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2009-12-18 14:30:16  
Bahamut.Kormix said:
Carbuncle.Corrderio said:
If I recall correctly Crysta was for another MMO SE was part of by the name "Fantasy Earth Zero", it currently has nothing to do with XIV


Idk, seems right up SE's alley to do something like this. They know the RMT will get their greasy little paws into FFXIV. SE would probably rather have the money in their hands instead of the GS.

Seraph.Caiyuo said:
Personally I think the micro-transactions are going to be for character customizations and special items that I don't expect to be relevant to gear/stat oriented players. In that respect I could see if that's what they're referencing by saying "a lot of people want that kind of model" since even I've wanted some unique ways to make my character stand out since unless you're using an unpopular face/hair/model, Whitegate is just a sea of clones. "I'm the small model!" lol


I think, (and hope) cai is right, but if he is, selling new hair colors and character models and things of that ilk isn't going to keep money out of RMT hands and put it into SEs like you're saying, kormix. The people that would pay 10$ for a new character model and the people who will (and do) pay $1000 for a kraken club are two separate, very different sets of customers.
 Kujata.Erim
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By Kujata.Erim 2009-12-18 14:30:17  
I'm uncertain as to how I feel about any of this the more I think about it. Buying adds-ons and expansions is perfectly fine because of the amount of work they put into them imo. However, generally speaking, the trade of real money for virtual goods bothers me, a lot. If its just little things like cosmetic items and items of convenience (increased exp gain) then I'm pretty indifference, I simply just don't buy them. Now it starts to bother me when shortcuts are given to players through RMT like buying gil to get a specific item. Even worse is buying hard to obtain items with straight cash or even far worse, exclusive (through RMT purchase only) items that are "essential" to your class.

Now buying gil bothers me, but... like it or not, it's going to happen even if SE decides not to become an official source. There is no easy way to stop it, in fact it's nearly impossible. I'm just uncertain if SE deciding to become an official source is a solution, or just making the problem worse. On one hand, it would be bad business for those bots and spammers that sell gil unofficially; On the other hand buying gil from an official source that has an unlimited amount of gil to hand out could have rather undesired effects on the online community.

I don't know what to think tbh.

We can only wait...
 Midgardsormr.Sammitch
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By Midgardsormr.Sammitch 2009-12-18 14:34:27  
I would really hope that they're tending more towards the episodic content they've been releasing in the form of the last few mini-expansions. Aside from the 'Ultimate Collection' you buy them directly from S/E at a lower price than a usual expansion, all of which fits closely with the idea of a microtransaction.

Re-designing the FFXI in terms of micro-transactions:
- You buy FFXI and get the core game, sans any expansions. 3 cities plus Jeuno. ~$50
- Once you hit level 30 you want to level NIN, PLD, or SMN. You go to the S/E online store and pay $10 to unlock RotZ advanced jobs.
- You hit 40 and you want to level in TAU areas, so you drop $10 on the TAU map pack.
- BLU also catches you eye, so another $10 for TAU advanced jobs.
- You get to 70+ and want to do some endgame events, so you buy Sky and Sea [RotZ maps, CoP maps] for $10 each

You see where I'm headed.

What I really hope they're not talking about is a system where no matter how hard you work at getting good gear in the game some schmuck with an assload of disposable income hops into the game and just buys himself full Hachiryu/Usuakane gear and a Futsuno Mitama and runs around complaining about how gimp everyone else in the game is.

Even if it's not the extreme example above, but let's say they can just spend $5 to give their weapon one more base damage it still corrupts the balance of the game in favor of those with money to burn. Purists such as myself will even argue that a merely cosmetic change that is available to those willing to pay would adversely affect the social balance in the game by allowing people to single out who has paid for something shiny while others have not.

WE WILL NOT BE SECOND CLASS CITIZENS.

YOUR SOCIETY BUILT ON THE BACKS OF THE PROLETARIAT WILL CRUMBLE AND THE BOURGEOISIE WILL KNOW FEAR.

>:|
 Sylph.Beelshamen
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By Sylph.Beelshamen 2009-12-18 14:35:37  
SE makes huge profits from RMT, it's as easy as that. Now they are introducing these "Micro-transactions". A lot of obsessed MMORPG fans won't be able to resist that and will spend a lot of money on these so called micro-transactions. And the cheating aspect and impact of selling mass gil will decrease, I suppose.
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2009-12-18 14:37:03  
Kujata.Erim said:
I don't know what to think tbh.

We can only wait...

Jaerik made a very insightful post a while back that probably predicts pretty accurately what the futute will hold. I'll repost the novel because i think it's very relevant to the current discussion.

Wish we had spoiler tags like bg...




Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
If it adds anything to the debate, I can relate the state of the gaming industry at the moment.

Monolithic AAA MMO's which do not have any form of RMT are seen as a dying breed. That is, games which derive a majority of their "fun" from the acquisition of items and experience, and which are closed systems whereby the only currency is time investment. (FFXI, for example.) Ruthless cost/benefit analysis has shown a few things about these types of games:

1) The market is not growing as fast as budgets. The same subset of people tends to play these games, and in order to get their business, you have to basically create the same game over and over again, but with progressively larger and larger budgets. This means companies are making progressively less and less profit margin on what is otherwise a pretty static player base. As an example, it is not unheard of for these games to now have development and infrastructure costs on the order of a quarter billion dollars, which is difficult to make back on $10/month subscriptions when a significant chunk of each account is going to pay for ongoing bandwidth and hosting fees.

2) The players of these games tend to be very content and service-intensive. They take their in-game prowess very seriously and occupy a huge amount of development time tweaking, balancing, retweaking, and arguing about skills, items, classes, etc. Regardless of how attentive the devs are to player needs, or how good the customer service is, these players are never happy. The tendency for them to continually badmouth the devs at every opportunity makes the games unenjoyable to work on and maintain. The best designers and coders in the industry are rapidly abandoning ship to more rewarding and enjoyable ventures.

3) Right now, the largest non-RMT approved game is World of Warcraft with approximately 10M subscribers. That sounds like a lot, but as I type this, more than 270M people around the world are playing non-traditional RMT-approved games and virtual worlds. (And paying just as much through microtransactions and other methods.) Furthermore, these more casual non-traditional games have development budgets that are frequently 1/10th to 1/100th the cost of a modern AAA MMO.

4) This number continues to increase at the rate of almost 20,000,000 per year, whereas the market for WoW/FFXI-style traditional MMO's has remained virtually flat for the past several years and shows serious signs of market saturation.

5) Combating RMT is expensive and questionably effective. There is no way to code to prevent it, and because RMT operations now make up approximately .03-.05% of mainland China's entire gross domestic product, you can count on someone in a country of a billion+ people to find ways around any block or filter. This need for ongoing policing and the PR nightmare around fighting the RMT is extremely expensive, cutting even more into development budgets and company profits. If you don't combat it aggressively enough, people quit. If you combat it too aggressively, people quit. It's lose-lose.

6) When companies are the ones providing microtransactions or RMT, they can always undercut the 3rd party illegal suppliers. This instantly dries up the market, stabilizing in-game economies, and resulting in better gameplay experiences for all users.

7) MMO's can do quite well and cater to both RMT, and non-RMT players alike, if they are designed from the ground up with that in mind. (Which FFXI was not.) As an example, EVE Online provides sanctioned methods to RMT that do not significantly effect gameplay and continue to grow their market share. Korean MMO's (the largest of which easily rival WoW in size) have provided company-sanctioned microtransaction models for almost a decade now, with no major backlash.

Will it matter with FF14? Probably not. The Japanese lead designer has already stated that he intends for FF14 to be a "hardcore MMO" that demands just as much time (possibly more) to play than FF11. So it seems SE is headed down the opposite path.

Make no mistake, however -- RMT is the wave of the future, according to just about every major game studio still left that hasn't folded into bankruptcy yet.

 Seraph.Caiyuo
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By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-12-18 14:43:42  
So ominous, Erim! lol I'm not really too worried unless it's the specific case of flat-out selling "good" items. If they decide to sell in-game money then at least they'd hedge off RMT, I'd hope. As it is RMT *** things up so royally that I'd rather go that route then having to ignore spam /tells, if nothing else. All of these elements seem to be coming to the game regardless because of our experiences with XI so I'd much prefer it being regulated by SE (assuming it's done in a smart way so as not to *** up economies and balance) than outside RMT sources. It might be all for the extra dollar with SE, but at least there's a chance they won't exploit the game just for money as opposed to 3rd party RMT who definitely will.
 Kujata.Erim
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By Kujata.Erim 2009-12-18 14:47:55  
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
Jaerik made a very insightful post a while back that probably predicts pretty accurately what the futute will hold. I'll repost the novel because i think it's very relevant to the current discussion.

Wish we had spoiler tags like bg...

That's a well written post, I just hope it'll ring true for SE if they decide to sell gil officially, or something similar.


People need to be reminded that while you complain about this and say that people are going to just buy gil and instantly become just as good as you with items you worked for.... that it already happens in FFXI.
 Seraph.Caiyuo
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By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-12-18 14:48:24  
Midgardsormr.Sammitch said:
I would really hope that they're tending more towards the episodic content they've been releasing in the form of the last few mini-expansions. Aside from the 'Ultimate Collection' you buy them directly from S/E at a lower price than a usual expansion, all of which fits closely with the idea of a microtransaction.

Re-designing the FFXI in terms of micro-transactions:
- You buy FFXI and get the core game, sans any expansions. 3 cities plus Jeuno. ~$50
- Once you hit level 30 you want to level NIN, PLD, or SMN. You go to the S/E online store and pay $10 to unlock RotZ advanced jobs.
- You hit 40 and you want to level in TAU areas, so you drop $10 on the TAU map pack.
- BLU also catches you eye, so another $10 for TAU advanced jobs.
- You get to 70 and want to do some endgame events, so you buy Sky and Sea [RotZ maps, CoP maps] for $10 each

You see where I'm headed.

What I really hope they're not talking about is a system where no matter how hard you work at getting good gear in the game some schmuck with an assload of disposable income hops into the game and just buys himself full Hachiryu/Usuakane gear and a Futsuno Mitama and runs around complaining about how gimp everyone else in the game is.

Even if it's not the extreme example above, but let's say they can just spend $5 to give their weapon one more base damage it still corrupts the balance of the game in favor of those with money to burn. Purists such as myself will even argue that a merely cosmetic change that is available to those willing to pay would adversely affect the social balance in the game by allowing people to single out who has paid for something shiny while others have not.

WE WILL NOT BE SECOND CLASS CITIZENS.

YOUR SOCIETY BUILT ON THE BACKS OF THE PROLETARIAT WILL CRUMBLE AND THE BOURGEOISIE WILL KNOW FEAR.

>:|
<3 I WAS going to ride you into the sky until the Sun singed our faces, but then I saw you used a Shinsoku and got mayad. Good points, though. :u
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 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-12-18 15:04:43  
Kujata.Erim said:
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
Jaerik made a very insightful post a while back that probably predicts pretty accurately what the futute will hold. I'll repost the novel because i think it's very relevant to the current discussion.

Wish we had spoiler tags like bg...

That's a well written post, I just hope it'll ring true for SE if they decide to sell gil officially, or something similar.


People need to be reminded that while you complain about this and say that people are going to just buy gil and instantly become just as good as you with items you worked for.... that it already happens in FFXI.
Lol, a lot of what Jaerik says is so logically thorough it hurts.
 Bahamut.Paulus
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By Bahamut.Paulus 2009-12-18 15:19:00  
Cash Shop huh? Gonna be interesting.
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2009-12-18 15:21:40  
I'm flattered by the quotation. I stand by the post, except for the last few lines.

It seems SE is backpedaling on their original statements in Japanese media that the game will be just as "hardcore" as FF11. I'm not surprised -- it struck me as an incredibly stupid business move.

Whether that means they'll clone WoW's casual gamer mechanic or not is still unknown, however. They've since gone into sort of an information blackout on that front. I suspect we'll have to wait for beta.
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 Kujata.Erim
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By Kujata.Erim 2009-12-18 15:27:56  
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
I'm flattered by the quotation. I stand by the post, except for the last few lines.

It seems SE is backpedaling on their original statements in Japanese media that the game will be just as "hardcore" as FF11. I'm not surprised -- it struck me as an incredibly stupid business move.

Whether that means they'll clone WoW's casual gamer mechanic or not is still unknown, however. They've since gone into sort of an information blackout on that front. I suspect we'll have to wait for beta.

Sorry for misunderstanding but did you mean incredibly stupid to remain "hardcore" or turn "casual"? (I hate those terms btw)

As far as business goes, it would seem going casual is the brighter idea. A lot of players won't appreciate that, but its what seems to roll in the dough.
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2009-12-18 15:31:21  
I meant stick to "hardcore onry." And yeah, I hate the terms too, but they're in standard industry parlance now so we can't escape 'em.

I think a lot of the folks above worrying about "balance" or "fairness" issues are... valid, but off-target. I think a lot of people have never played an MMO with company-sanctioned RMT. They've only played games like FF11, and so they look back at their own game experience and imagine grafting RMT into it, and yeah. It sucks ***. It would be horrible.

But when an MMO has company-sanctioned RMT built in from the beginning -- when it's an inherent part of the design -- you can build in parallel achievement paths such that RMT versus "old school" player types don't cheapen or invalidate one another's play experience. It's completely doable. You just need to design that way from the start.
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