T4 Reisenjima Strategy.

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T4 Reisenjima Strategy.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-01-02 23:55:15  
That's a lot of players, we ain't finding that many lol.
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 Bahamut.Lexouritis
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By Bahamut.Lexouritis 2018-01-02 23:57:23  
:( well, if u manage to get the nukers together, PM me, I can give you our strat, been nuking it since day 1
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 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-01-03 04:03:53  
I don't disagree.

The person who set it up was probably putting the best geared/most skilled WHM in with the heavy DD.

Relying on Boltered Frailty. Hopefully shouldn't need too much attack unless the fight lasts longer then bolster.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-01-03 10:54:55  
Issue I see with a DD setup is the chance of Yaksha. Are you forcing it in to Raksha somehow? Soon as it does Yaksha the DD potential plummets.
 Asura.Taberif
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By Asura.Taberif 2018-01-03 11:20:12  
Use minimal debuffs and more player buffs for dd setup and it will be a non issue. Also don't melee in front

Our setup is usually 1 Geo frailty/torpor and a ton of brd cor buffs
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-01-03 11:21:44  
Asura.Taberif said: »
Use minimal debuffs and more player buffs for dd setup and it will be a non issue. Also don't melee in front

I could still see it switching to Yaksha just because of one debuff. Hell .. I've seen it change to Yaksha with zero debuffs on and a full decked out tank. Yet to see anyone force it to do Raksha. The second it goes in to Yaksha, it can do Oblivien and Attack Down etc. I'd love to see an example of a DD setup working reliably.
 
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-01-03 11:52:15  
Warder and Kirin had certain factors to them sure, but Yaksha is 50% pdt and hate resets. The more enfeebles you give Vini, the more likely it will do and stay in Yaksha. But even with no debuffs at all, and a fully buffed tank, we've seen it switch to Yaksha pretty quick. All it would take is for it to switch from Raksha to Yaksha in the first minute or two and DPS would plummet.
 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-01-03 13:30:40  
Assuming BG wiki is right and it resists piercing by 50% you'd still be up 50% dps with slashing DDs if it full timed Yaksha Stance. Piercing DD and Yaksha Stance is potentially PDT-75% or however it's calculated. The 3 effect dispel concerns me more than 50% PDT or hate reset though. It can be nice to have a way to recap haste if march gets Dispelled. Embrava is nice for it.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-01-03 13:38:33  
The only video I can find of a group meleeing this down without a full alliance is this really old one from 2016.

YouTube Video Placeholder


GEO bubbles were much stronger then, but we didn't have the gear we do now. In the video, I noticed it never went in to Yaksha, but the most important thing that no one's mentioned about a melee setup is .. Stun! Notice how someone is using the Lights to MB stun important moves? The second the stun starts to resist is when they have to wipe.

We have the melee DD power to replicate this, but what about buffs? I can't tell what this group brought exactly, and even if I did, it was before the bubble nerf so we may need to bring more people (which means more HP).

Other observations:

-This group is using an Aeonic BRD, which we don't have yet.
-RUN uses One For All at 64% for added magical protection.
-Mages keep Dia II plus Light up. Saw Banish II in there.
-Wild Card to the tank party at 30%
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-01-03 13:49:16  
You don't need to stun it to be successful. I don't think it's ever been stunned in any of the instances I've done it.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-01-03 13:51:54  
Siren.Kyte said: »
You don't need to stun it to be successful. I don't think it's ever been stunned in any of the instances I've done it.

If it didn't get stunned (in the vid), the DDs were going to get hit with moves including Yama's Judgement. We don't have several Aeonic bards for a plethora of carols so stunning moves seems logical for a group who may not have all the protection.
 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-01-03 14:09:01  
Monster evasion nerfs, monster combat skills nerfs, monster magic evasion nerfs, Omen armor, Su3 gear, an enormous bard buff, regal necklace, marine stewpots and more have all been added since that video was made.

And in all fairness a massive nerf to vex/attunement/focus/languor.

It's difficult to make a direct comparison though.

Honor march shouldn't make or break the fight like it used to. You used to need every last point of accuracy.

Carols are nice but not foolproof. You can try and pick which debuffs you want to have to deal with though.
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By ocean 2018-01-03 14:09:51  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Siren.Kyte said: »
You don't need to stun it to be successful. I don't think it's ever been stunned in any of the instances I've done it.

If it didn't get stunned (in the vid), the DDs were going to get hit with moves including Yama's Judgement. We don't have several Aeonic bards for a plethora of carols so stunning moves seems logical for a group who may not have all the protection.


If you're intent on the rng strat, have you considered forcing yaksha and going with TrueFlight dmg?
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-01-03 14:13:09  
I still think black mage way is the best way to go for first time clears (using less than 12). A full alliance can get away with DD or ranger setup as you can stack up on bards (sleeps) and buffs. Melee way is great if you have plenty of buffs, but I've never seen a group beat Vini without an Aeonic Bard, so it's likely not a good idea for a group beating it for a first time clear.

It's possible (just like it's possible for us to beat it with rangers), but way more riskier than nuking. It's easy for groups to say "just go out and zerg it like anything else" but then you turn around and say you got Aeonic Bards, Yagrush WHMs, and lots of other things we don't have which makes it easy. Try doing it with the people we have, and you'll find it's a real challenge.

And we ain't on a really populated server, we can't just shout and get a full alliance to show up. There's way more videos of groups MBing it down than there are melee (and recent ones too), so it must be the best way to do it .. outside the typical SMN burn.

ocean said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Siren.Kyte said: »
You don't need to stun it to be successful. I don't think it's ever been stunned in any of the instances I've done it.

If it didn't get stunned (in the vid), the DDs were going to get hit with moves including Yama's Judgement. We don't have several Aeonic bards for a plethora of carols so stunning moves seems logical for a group who may not have all the protection.


If you're intent on the rng strat, have you considered forcing yaksha and going with TrueFlight dmg?

Not really. Not sure if it would be good or not. We are not intent on rng strat, it was just the only way we can try it due to the people and jobs we have available.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-01-03 14:24:34  
There's nothing that makes Marsyas particularly necessary for beating Vinipata with melees. If you bring an extra COR mule and/or have someone apply a couple SMN buffs and come back, you'll probably have more melee buffs than when I've done it.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-01-03 14:33:52  
Yeah that's the problem, people say melee is "easy", but follow up by saying they got REMA bards, every GEO with Idris, Yagrush WHM and the like. I can't compare our group to other groups who've done multiple Aeonics, they've got way more choice than we do.
 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-01-03 14:34:45  
The February 2017 update was pretty huge in terms of melee DD strategies.

Not only did they massively buff songs, in particularly madrigal so bard could give DDs enough accuracy, they also did:

Quote:
Monsters in the following areas have had their combat skills, magic skills, and magic evasion lowered.
Seeks of Adoulin areas / Legion areas / Escha- Zi'Tah /
Escha-Ru'Aun / Reisenjima / Reisenjima Henge

Which made the extra accuracy no longer necessary. This wasn't the first nerf to evasion either.
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2018-01-03 14:38:19  
You can do it without Marsyas, it just requires a little bit of extra buffing. In our current setup, we can get away with using our lowest Accuracy sets with just SV HMarch/Mad/Mad. You can either make gear concessions or throw up a bolster torpor for an extra -200 eva and then you're golden.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-01-03 14:38:46  
Consider a group has a bard who does not have any REMA, one COR, and two Idris GEOs, how would you set up for melee? Consider we might not be able to bring an army of mules .. perhaps one extra cor, another brd at a stretch (it's hard to find mule bards too). I don't see it being enough at all. Even with the February update, we'll be able to cap accuracy, but we won't have the tp flow or attack to make it worthwhile. Unless I'm just being pessimistic after our many failed attempts .. which is likely.
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2018-01-03 14:53:32  
Accidentally deleted my post so I'm gonna keep it short this time

GEO WHM DD DD DD DD
GEO BRD + mules

BRD starts on COR w/ 8-9min rolls and gets 11s w/ super revits at goblin, same with one of our mules. Change back to BRD and have the other one change to SMN for a quick Crystal Blessing.

H. March, V. March (only if the NM can slow), B. Mad, S. Mad, 2x Carol

Chaos Fighter Samurai Miser

Frailty Wilt Attune are generally always on, then Vex/Fade depending on NM.

a 3rd GEO (even Dunna) doing bolstered Torpor will be more than enough to fix your accuracy. You don't need main CORs, or even COR in the party for melee. If you can't get a 4 song brd then another Ghorn brd singing with CC will give you 8 songs total for additional carols and what not. If you don't have another BRD then you can easily make one for someone in the LS, GHorn is incredibly cheap (you honestly don't even need one at this point anyway) and so is an NQ moonbow whistle now. Make your main BRD sing the important attribute increasing ones (Marches, Madrigals) and the secondary one on Carols.
 
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2018-01-03 14:59:13  
Shouldn't. I've had 12 COR/BRD buffs and MG at the same time before.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-01-03 15:00:58  
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
Accidentally deleted my post so I'm gonna keep it short this time

GEO WHM DD DD DD DD
GEO BRD + mules

BRD starts on COR w/ 8-9min rolls and gets 11s w/ super revits at goblin, same with one of our mules. Change back to BRD and have the other one change to SMN for a quick Crystal Blessing.

H. March, V. March (only if the NM can slow), B. Mad, S. Mad, 2x Carol

Chaos Fighter Samurai Miser

Frailty Wilt Attune are generally always on, then Vex/Fade depending on NM.

a 3rd GEO (even Dunna) doing bolstered Torpor will be more than enough to fix your accuracy. You don't need main CORs, or even COR in the party for melee. If you can't get a 4 song brd then another Ghorn brd singing with CC will give you 8 songs total for additional carols and what not. If you don't have another BRD then you can easily make one for someone in the LS, GHorn is incredibly cheap (you honestly don't even need one at this point anyway) and so is an NQ moonbow whistle now. Make your main BRD sing the important attribute increasing ones (Marches, Madrigals) and the secondary one on Carols.

I think we got one bard with two instruments, and another we can't remember if he has relic horn or not. No Aeonics though, so I still think we'd be lacking. And another issue is, one of the bards, and one of the Idris GEOs, both of them are usually on WHM for heals. So .. we'd have to find a brand new white mage from somewhere if we had them both buffing. We managed to zerg Kouryu and Warder, but that's only when we had a couple of players with plenty of mules; but they went to another server so we no longer have the option.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-01-03 15:03:49  
After all this time and all this advice, it would've been easier to take 5 days master blms and gear them up.

All this advice coming from full 10/10 groups doesn't serve them in any way at all. They need simple advice for less than stellar players.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-01-03 15:06:05  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
After all this time and all this advice, it would've been easier to take 5 days master blms and gear them up.

Yeah exactly. That's kinda what I said wasn't it? We just abandon the ranger and melee strats and nuke the crap out of it (like we did on earlier NM to great effect). And not everyone wants to gear BLM, and not everyone plays every day. We can't just make an army of blms in a week or two. Not unless you do it for us? And you're very right, I can't take much of the advice here, because it doesn't apply to us. It doesn't work for us.

The very first wins from Vinipata (before anyone had an Aeonic) likely came from a nuking strategy, so we'll have to follow in other groups footsteps .. and learn to walk with nukes, before we can run with melees.
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By Elazar1 2018-01-03 15:41:03  
I know cerb is dead, but really can’t get 12 people together for a run, I mean I hate to be a hater but, sometimes people have to play the jobs and gear it even if they are not a fan of it, that’s life we all do do things we don’t want to, but following on what others say you don’t my need marsyas, but for me to not have a ghorns and harp I don’t get it, another problem I found even. On other servers people don’t want to play whm because it’s beneath them, small groups must have multiple jobs and not can you carry dead weight. Or you guys will be on helms for the next 10 years. I hate to seem harsh but it’s just the facts
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-01-03 15:43:52  
Gearing new jobs and playing different roles is a key part of FFXI. The age of mules/bots doing all support roles may have masked it, but that's how it's always been. If you want to clear everything, you'll have to do it somewhere down the road as new content comes out, if not now.
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