Ambuscade Volume 1-October 2017

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Ambuscade Volume 1-October 2017
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By 2017-10-13 14:26:55
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 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-10-13 14:27:57  
SCH works fine, WHM was better for bar spells
 Sylph.Gobbo
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By Sylph.Gobbo 2017-10-13 14:49:25  
For what exactly, stun? Because Barthunder could be AoE'd and there isn't much to remove as far as debuffs go. If anything I'd say WHM would be better for Auspice alone since the NM attacks like once a lifetime with Slow and Elegy and has no natural Regain.

I'd like to say my Helix offered extra DPS, but without a GEO you aren't getting far.
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By clearlyamule 2017-10-13 15:02:18  
Sylph.Gobbo said: »
Yeah, I was the SCH in Warden's setup and the Regen/Embrava was enough for me to ignore the NINs and focus on Tank. It's super important that the tank NOT pull hate on mega boss if at all possible. Our deaths were mostly caused from RUN accidentally pulling hate on Mega Boss from NINs and either the NINs ate it to a stray Thundaga III or the RUN took a Triple Reversal in the bum.

The adds are easily silenceable so keeping the astrologers silenced will prevent a lot of headaches.

If you can ignore the nins and focus just on the tank then pulling them farther away will avoid hate pulling
 Sylph.Gobbo
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By Sylph.Gobbo 2017-10-13 15:35:16  
clearlyamule said: »
If you can ignore the nins and focus just on the tank then pulling them farther away will avoid hate pulling

I think we'll try this next time since it really was the only issue we ran into. If the boss doesn't move, the fight is more or less free after adds are popped and moved.
 Leviathan.Sidra
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By Leviathan.Sidra 2017-10-13 16:11:28  
Shiva.Spynx said: »
I think (please correct if I'm wrong as I haven't thoroughly tested) all of its drain moves are based on some HP percentage and can't kill you. This includes Unblest Jambiya, Turning Table, Hex Palm and Enforce. The only moves able to kill you as long as you have shadows are Gen'ei Ryodan (need 5 shadows or you can be en-death during stun) and Spinal Cleave (bypass shadows)

The Drain cannot kill you, and it makes more sense not to heal the people killing the boss since then it heals more. We finish the fights with less than 5 hp each.
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-10-13 16:46:45  
Sylph.Gobbo said: »
For what exactly, stun? Because Barthunder could be AoE'd and there isn't much to remove as far as debuffs go. If anything I'd say WHM would be better for Auspice alone since the NM attacks like once a lifetime with Slow and Elegy and has no natural Regain.

I'd like to say my Helix offered extra DPS, but without a GEO you aren't getting far.

I did mention WHM essential buffs and Auspice was amongst them, in the case of us using WHM was for emergencies when one of the NINs died and had to 1hr, Arise>1hr> raise again makes you negate weakend status right away and save lots of time. but it only happened once on VD.
also SS cures helped us with few moves that passed through shadows and helped the Kiter [also mentioned in the original post]
regarding Barthunder, it does help with resisting the move after your shadows are wiped, few seconds matter to re-apply.

we take SCH regen before we enter along with Aquaveil.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-10-13 17:48:33  
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Arise>1hr> raise again makes you negate weakend status right away and save lots of time
blatantly false, reraise takes 10 seconds to show up after you die and casting another raise only takes a few seconds and shows up instantly when cast completes.. a sch doing raise3>raise2 is undeniably faster than using arise

i'm not going to disagree on whm being fine in general though, this month is a joke regardless
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 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-10-13 20:36:23  
You're blatantly looking for an excuse to argue over trivial matters...

Also that line "saves lots of time" was connected to the idea of negating weakend status and going back on track normally like nothing happened...

Where have I mentioned that you will save lots of time by Arise? vs Raise 3 > Raise 2?

That case I mentioned only happened once and WHM was busy with the kiter, Don't need to stress yourself over it.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-10-13 21:15:10  
I mean, you mentioned Arise in the context of WHM being a helpful job... to assume the emphasis was on Mijin(which is an ability anyone who's ever touched NIN should know about) is silly.
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 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-10-13 21:26:50  
No.
Don’t take the parts that you like and forget the whole statement, do I need to educate you on how to read a statement?

If you don’t want to bother reading everything, don’t pick and choose then.

Why this website is full of strawmanning ideologies.


SS curing, Barspells, Auspice where the main highlights why we picked WHM.

End it.

Also: stop acting like everyone “must” know everything in the game just because you do, a lot don’t and breaking down the strats/info is an act of courtesy. So it’s okay! It’s good! Move on..
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By Staleyx 2017-10-14 02:10:29  
Does the main reset all enmity at 30%? We had this happen and it would go right after tank holding adds and smack em with en-death. Something triggering this?
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By geigei 2017-10-14 02:16:18  
Staleyx said: »
Does the main reset all enmity at 30%? We had this happen and it would go right after tank holding adds and smack em with en-death. Something triggering this?

Happens to me also on vd, tank was sitting in center tho not kiting, maybe needs to be further away?
 Asura.Alexhander
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By Asura.Alexhander 2017-10-14 03:40:37  
The 30% hate reset is correlated To PD imo. 15-30 sec w/o dmg Can be sick. I didnt let touch The boss @ start To The pld and i always avoid it
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-10-14 03:52:41  
DirectX said: »
So if you're not going to heal why go WHM? Not better to go SMN? Or if RUN needs some heals RDM or SCH would be no less effective.
Don't think a WHM is needed if you're going with NINs.
Not for (D) at least.
Well you do need someone able to shoot C4s on the kiting tank every now and then, but a lot of jobs can do that if they have the gear.

SCH worked really nice in that regard imho.
Shoot Regen5 for 8+ mins on the DDs, give them Barthunder and Adloquium, and then focus on silencing the BLMs and keeping the tank alive.
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By Staleyx 2017-10-14 03:58:15  
Yes the first couple we tried I was helping get the main to 70 to pop adds. Once I stopped doing that and only touching adds, taking them further away it helped.
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-10-14 04:40:20  
Staleyx said: »
Does the main reset all enmity at 30%? We had this happen and it would go right after tank holding adds and smack em with en-death. Something triggering this?

“Turn the table” is a confirmed hate reset move.
At 30% his weapon breaks and he starts spamming Enforce and loses En-Death.
There is a high possibility that your Tank died from something else. (A combination of several moves by adds and Main maybe?)


There is a really good chance that Enforce resets hate as well yet it’s not confirmed.

Side note: using RUN as a Kiter is a thousand times better than PLD just because of stun, when adds silence wears off.
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By Staleyx 2017-10-14 04:55:29  
Thank you for the advice will change some stuff up. Seems if you make damn sure to finale the mains haste off he will favor re applying it instead of using that multi dispel+stun move.
 Ragnarok.Senzumi
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By Ragnarok.Senzumi 2017-10-14 22:35:00  
You don't need a whm, been using a rdm for VD spam. Don't even need anyone to /smn just have the tank kite, latest easiest and safest set my group has been using was brd rdm pld geo ninx2 8-9min VD's but nothing scary or hard about it. Could probably go a bit faster with another dd if ya really want but seems to make the main spam the AoE drain in the pre -30% phase.
 Shiva.Spynx
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By Shiva.Spynx 2017-10-15 00:38:26  
We also notices hate issue on VD during enforce spam so there must be some hate reset/lowering mechanism there. We decided to toss in a RUN DD because why not and 1 flash/foil/OFA would fix the problem. 7 mins VD with PLD RUN NIN NIN BRD GEO
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By geigei 2017-10-15 00:58:33  
We clear under 10 with run nin nin brd geo whm, run kiting, whm indeed is not needed, i could go as far and say geo could handle healing on run. On my last 2 runs i tried to stay away as much possible during enforce (as run) and nin's didnt lost hate, also didnt used any ja/spells near boss but initial aoe to get adds.
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By Phoenix.Brixy 2017-10-15 01:16:44  
We did difficult pretty easily with BLU/NINx2, SMN/NIN(me), PLD, GEO, SCH(my alt). Paladin does nothing to the NM until it pops adds at 70%, and then grabs them all and kites. Summoner does haste, enfire, tp bonus, and acc from fenrir if needed. Main avatar used is Ramuh and I rotate volt strike and shock squall after every tp move it does so the BLU can keep up shadows. The SMN should have a good melee set to keep tp for myrkr. If for whatever reason the BLUs go down, I swap to Garuda and hold the boss since avatars are immune to the endeath and she can easily tank with whispering wind until they are unweakened. Perp Regen V is enough to keep the Paladin healed for most of the fight, occasionally a cure is needed. At 30% the sch uses diaga for Utsusemi: San.

I'm sure this would be even easier with ninjas. We are working with what we have atm lol.

Edit: Swapped GEO for DDBrd and it was about a 8-9 min fight including buff time.
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 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-10-15 01:40:23  
Both SMN and SCH can easily replace the WHM to cover the tank holding adds and also provide enspell, which significantly increases kill speed with 2-3 NIN and/or MNKs.
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By Afania 2017-10-15 02:42:58  
Since every ws cap at 99999 damage easily, does that mean.....mnk best dps here?


Edit: just went back to 1st page, apparently it is! :D
 Asura.Alexhander
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By Asura.Alexhander 2017-10-15 02:49:52  
I really don't See The point for nin dd. Since
The boss is slowed elegy whatever any dd/nin with q simple fc gear can manage Easy Shadow. Yeah whm can be replaced even with a good rdm/nin who cares about cure. Il pld gonna Kite add He never need a cure. Clear vd in 9 Min with rdm instead whm
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By Asura.Alexhander 2017-10-15 02:51:05  
Ragnarok.Senzumi said: »
You don't need a whm, been using a rdm for VD spam. Don't even need anyone to /smn just have the tank kite, latest easiest and safest set my group has been using was brd rdm pld geo ninx2 8-9min VD's but nothing scary or hard about it. Could probably go a bit faster with another dd if ya really want but seems to make the main spam the AoE drain in the pre -30% phase.
Didn't read before fully agree
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By geigei 2017-10-15 02:53:44  
Also just because you 99k on ws doesnt mean you're fast, went with rdm melee instead of geo and white dmg was way lower w/o frailty.
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 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-10-15 06:57:34  
Asura.Alexhander said: »
I really don't See The point for nin dd. Since
The boss is slowed elegy whatever any dd/nin with q simple fc gear can manage Easy Shadow. Yeah whm can be replaced even with a good rdm/nin who cares about cure. Il pld gonna Kite add He never need a cure. Clear vd in 9 Min with rdm instead whm


You actually do need at least one NIN between 80%-30% even when Main is fully debuffed by RDM, nothing comes nearly as close as NIN when it comes to tanking this (I can See RUN doing that as well)

There is also another reason why we use NINs, capped subtle blow does wonders in the first awkward (100-30) Main Boss rarely spams TP moves and I honestly don't think it has innate Regain.

I can totally see MNK,DNC,"SAM with Ken Set" replace any DD aside from NIN on this for this sole reason alone.
MNKs DNCs SAMs with at least one NIN on Main will be the best combination when it comes to subtle blow cap.
These 3 can easily cap it with one spell (Auspice, Myoshu) or 1/2 gear items in TP set (4/5 in the case of SAM).

Some might argue that, yet I find these little details contribute to the overall speed of the fight.
 Asura.Alexhander
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By Asura.Alexhander 2017-10-15 09:12:20  
@
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Asura.Alexhander said: »
I really don't See The point for nin dd. Since
The boss is slowed elegy whatever any dd/nin with q simple fc gear can manage Easy Shadow. Yeah whm can be replaced even with a good rdm/nin who cares about cure. Il pld gonna Kite add He never need a cure. Clear vd in 9 Min with rdm instead whm


You actually do need at least one NIN between 80%-30% even when Main is fully debuffed by RDM, nothing comes nearly as close as NIN when it comes to tanking this (I can See RUN doing that as well)

There is also another reason why we use NINs, capped subtle blow does wonders in the first awkward (100-30) Main Boss rarely spams TP moves and I honestly don't think it has innate Regain.

I can totally see MNK,DNC,"SAM with Ken Set" replace any DD aside from NIN on this for this sole reason alone.
MNKs DNCs SAMs with at least one NIN on Main will be the best combination when it comes to subtle blow cap.
These 3 can easily cap it with one spell (Auspice, Myoshu) or 1/2 gear items in TP set (4/5 in the case of SAM).

Some might argue that, yet I find these little details contribute to the overall speed of the fight.

The various ppl with i Went never Was nin And They never get hitted (was really boring for whm never used a single cure.). Even subtle blow: There arent so many dangerous TP move this ambu to Force You to bring nin every fight just for subtle
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-10-15 09:38:20  
Why this should be an issue? you're always forced to bring a PLD or a RUN to kite.. whats wrong with bringing a NIN to be safer or play smarter/faster?

You do what you want in the end with your group. it won't change the facts about best possible scenarios especially (80%-30%).

Edit: Also the lowest recorded VD was done with 3 NINs so far.
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