(cerb) Kirin / Kouryu (Do You Need It?)

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(cerb) Kirin / Kouryu (Do You Need It?)
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-11 17:22:59  
Sylph.Reain said: »
It sounds like you're playing too conservatively. I would buff before hand and try and kill it before it can summon anything. The summons do die fast apart from perfect dodge/Invincible so you should be able to change target and drop them when they pop if needed. Genbu can dispel everything so not having to deal with them is preferable.

I'd recommend having Scherzo and/or Eathern armor. Kirin's heat breaths are capable of 1 shotting a DD and a Geotic Breath on transform can kill people before they position if unlucky.

If you have an Idris Geo tail tanking is an option with Bolstered Wilt.

Darksparksnot point is valid though. Kirin is an easy melee zerg compared to the Reisinjima T4s who will put up far more resistance.

Possibly, but I also think we were doing it alright aside from handling the adds. Getting rid of PD/Invincible kills that problem. We usually have a bard for carol, and we got two Idris Geos now (only one last time). I do like the idea of zerging the first form next time, so it doesn't get a chance to spawn anything.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-08-11 17:23:35  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Phoenix.Libbien said: »
He already said they decided they needed to get better gear and try again later, and now they're ready to try again.

I recently just got my first aeonic and let me warn you, it's hard to find relevant info these days with all the changes to mob stats, geo spells, etc. We got hung up on kirin at first too and tried many different methods including smns bursting wind blade, but I can honestly say melee is the way to go. Don't listen to people who say a pld should be able to hold adds solo without support. Use a 2nd whm just for the add pld and you will buy yourself a ton of time to kill kouryu.

The other thing I'd like to add is be patient. We struggled badly at first with WoC and kirin because we were a diverse group who didn't have a ton of experience playing with each other despite being in the same ls. We spent nearly 2 months (we only went once per week for 2ish hours max) trying to get past kirin and WoC, but as we got familiar with each other we got a lot better. After that struggle, we only had 1 week in reisen where we didnt beat at least 1 HELM (sadly it was our last NM too lol damn you albumen). On round 2 now and things are a whole lot easier, experience and familiarity with each other are huge.

Stick with it and best of luck from Phoenix!

Cheers! Luckily for us we've played together for a couple of years now and should know what to expect of each other. I think the first time we tried this we were geared well, but not as good as we are now. We didn't have +3s and vorseals from T2-3 Reisenjimas. We struggled finding the right setup for Kirin / Kouryu as the GEO bubble update happened not long before so I couldn't find many testimonials.

I'm looking forward to this .. Quilly and I make quite the melee combination (Q is my dad so we communicate and I tell him the skillchain) as we've played together since 2005, and we are still annoyed about wiping at 3% .. one or two more WS and we'd have moved on months ago.

Edit: Question. If we did it melee way, would we be better off doing a four-step skillchain (so any GEOs can magic burst aero), or would it be better to give Quilly a great sword and have us spam Reso? I know it's a zerg fight, we tried it a few times, I'm just thinking about overall potential from a multi step compared to WSing at every opportunity.

SC's only really work for very small groups with one or two DD's coordinating them. Well augmented Zulf spamming reso would beat Conq spamming Upheaval, the Conq should be using KJ anyway. Well augmented Zulf beats Rag in reso spam, assuming you don't need the accuracy (big *** assumption). For the WAR it's important to make sure they are 5/5 Savagery and have the relic head, using that right before you start the reso spam is a huge *** boost to the parties damage output. MSBR just make it even sillier.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-11 17:26:50  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Phoenix.Libbien said: »
He already said they decided they needed to get better gear and try again later, and now they're ready to try again.

I recently just got my first aeonic and let me warn you, it's hard to find relevant info these days with all the changes to mob stats, geo spells, etc. We got hung up on kirin at first too and tried many different methods including smns bursting wind blade, but I can honestly say melee is the way to go. Don't listen to people who say a pld should be able to hold adds solo without support. Use a 2nd whm just for the add pld and you will buy yourself a ton of time to kill kouryu.

The other thing I'd like to add is be patient. We struggled badly at first with WoC and kirin because we were a diverse group who didn't have a ton of experience playing with each other despite being in the same ls. We spent nearly 2 months (we only went once per week for 2ish hours max) trying to get past kirin and WoC, but as we got familiar with each other we got a lot better. After that struggle, we only had 1 week in reisen where we didnt beat at least 1 HELM (sadly it was our last NM too lol damn you albumen). On round 2 now and things are a whole lot easier, experience and familiarity with each other are huge.

Stick with it and best of luck from Phoenix!

Cheers! Luckily for us we've played together for a couple of years now and should know what to expect of each other. I think the first time we tried this we were geared well, but not as good as we are now. We didn't have +3s and vorseals from T2-3 Reisenjimas. We struggled finding the right setup for Kirin / Kouryu as the GEO bubble update happened not long before so I couldn't find many testimonials.

I'm looking forward to this .. Quilly and I make quite the melee combination (Q is my dad so we communicate and I tell him the skillchain) as we've played together since 2005, and we are still annoyed about wiping at 3% .. one or two more WS and we'd have moved on months ago.

Edit: Question. If we did it melee way, would we be better off doing a four-step skillchain (so any GEOs can magic burst aero), or would it be better to give Quilly a great sword and have us spam Reso? I know it's a zerg fight, we tried it a few times, I'm just thinking about overall potential from a multi step compared to WSing at every opportunity.

SC's only really work for very small groups with one or two DD's coordinating them. Well augmented Zulf spamming reso would beat Conq spamming Upheaval, the Conq should be using KJ anyway. Well augmented Zulf beats Rag in reso spam, assuming you don't need the accuracy (big *** assumption). For the WAR it's important to make sure they are 5/5 Savagery and have the relic head, using that right before you start the reso spam is a huge *** boost to the parties damage output. MSBR just make it even sillier.

Cheers Saeval, this is why we got Quilly a Zulfiqar. He needs to augment it better, but for sure his accuracy is fine. That's on the to-do list.

Asura.Avallon said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Adds go down pretty quick? Also, who usually looks out and pulls them to the DD?

I'm a little late to this thread but, my 2 gils:

From our experiences, you don't mess with the adds. That's how we all started when Escha Sky came out but now days if Kouryu isn't dead within a very short time frame, your run is over anyway. Stopping to take on the adds only increases your chance of failure. This of course is being stated with the knowledge that your group is ready for this but not decked out for this. It would stand to reason your best bet then would be to zerg Kirin/Kouryu as fast as humanly possible.

Each participant needs to understand the fight from start to finish. They need to know to use Mirrors/Steadfast Tonics at 50%, where to stand/where not to stand, temps are available for a reason, and so on.

If you're SMN burning it great! If you're melee burning it, great, but make sure your guys are ready for maximum damage output. This means your Idris GEO is fast and on point and other support buffs are ALREADY ON at the time Kouryu spawns.

A third option (I didn't read everyone's post above so this might have already been covered) is to mage burn it using SCH's and BLM's. You can also technically use SCH and SMN's to burst as well. Just keep in mind the same gear/skill expectations are a must.

We talked about it back then and came to this conclusion. I do like ignoring the adds as it's a real pain having to switch target in a zerg fight.
 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-08-11 17:28:16  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Phoenix.Libbien said: »
He already said they decided they needed to get better gear and try again later, and now they're ready to try again.

I recently just got my first aeonic and let me warn you, it's hard to find relevant info these days with all the changes to mob stats, geo spells, etc. We got hung up on kirin at first too and tried many different methods including smns bursting wind blade, but I can honestly say melee is the way to go. Don't listen to people who say a pld should be able to hold adds solo without support. Use a 2nd whm just for the add pld and you will buy yourself a ton of time to kill kouryu.

The other thing I'd like to add is be patient. We struggled badly at first with WoC and kirin because we were a diverse group who didn't have a ton of experience playing with each other despite being in the same ls. We spent nearly 2 months (we only went once per week for 2ish hours max) trying to get past kirin and WoC, but as we got familiar with each other we got a lot better. After that struggle, we only had 1 week in reisen where we didnt beat at least 1 HELM (sadly it was our last NM too lol damn you albumen). On round 2 now and things are a whole lot easier, experience and familiarity with each other are huge.

Stick with it and best of luck from Phoenix!

Cheers! Luckily for us we've played together for a couple of years now and should know what to expect of each other. I think the first time we tried this we were geared well, but not as good as we are now. We didn't have +3s and vorseals from T2-3 Reisenjimas. We struggled finding the right setup for Kirin / Kouryu as the GEO bubble update happened not long before so I couldn't find many testimonials.

I'm looking forward to this .. Quilly and I make quite the melee combination (Q is my dad so we communicate and I tell him the skillchain) as we've played together since 2005, and we are still annoyed about wiping at 3% .. one or two more WS and we'd have moved on months ago.

Edit: Question. If we did it melee way, would we be better off doing a four-step skillchain (so any GEOs can magic burst aero), or would it be better to give Quilly a great sword and have us spam Reso? I know it's a zerg fight, we tried it a few times, I'm just thinking about overall potential from a multi step compared to WSing at every opportunity.

SC's only really work for very small groups with one or two DD's coordinating them. Well augmented Zulf spamming reso would beat Conq spamming Upheaval, the Conq should be using KJ anyway. Well augmented Zulf beats Rag in reso spam, assuming you don't need the accuracy (big *** assumption). For the WAR it's important to make sure they are 5/5 Savagery and have the relic head, using that right before you start the reso spam is a huge *** boost to the parties damage output. MSBR just make it even sillier.

Cheers Saeval, this is why we got Quilly a Zulfiqar. He needs to augment it better, but for sure his accuracy is fine. That's on the to-do list.
Well, the question is What is his accuracy at pre buffs
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-11 17:31:38  
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Phoenix.Libbien said: »
He already said they decided they needed to get better gear and try again later, and now they're ready to try again.

I recently just got my first aeonic and let me warn you, it's hard to find relevant info these days with all the changes to mob stats, geo spells, etc. We got hung up on kirin at first too and tried many different methods including smns bursting wind blade, but I can honestly say melee is the way to go. Don't listen to people who say a pld should be able to hold adds solo without support. Use a 2nd whm just for the add pld and you will buy yourself a ton of time to kill kouryu.

The other thing I'd like to add is be patient. We struggled badly at first with WoC and kirin because we were a diverse group who didn't have a ton of experience playing with each other despite being in the same ls. We spent nearly 2 months (we only went once per week for 2ish hours max) trying to get past kirin and WoC, but as we got familiar with each other we got a lot better. After that struggle, we only had 1 week in reisen where we didnt beat at least 1 HELM (sadly it was our last NM too lol damn you albumen). On round 2 now and things are a whole lot easier, experience and familiarity with each other are huge.

Stick with it and best of luck from Phoenix!

Cheers! Luckily for us we've played together for a couple of years now and should know what to expect of each other. I think the first time we tried this we were geared well, but not as good as we are now. We didn't have +3s and vorseals from T2-3 Reisenjimas. We struggled finding the right setup for Kirin / Kouryu as the GEO bubble update happened not long before so I couldn't find many testimonials.

I'm looking forward to this .. Quilly and I make quite the melee combination (Q is my dad so we communicate and I tell him the skillchain) as we've played together since 2005, and we are still annoyed about wiping at 3% .. one or two more WS and we'd have moved on months ago.

Edit: Question. If we did it melee way, would we be better off doing a four-step skillchain (so any GEOs can magic burst aero), or would it be better to give Quilly a great sword and have us spam Reso? I know it's a zerg fight, we tried it a few times, I'm just thinking about overall potential from a multi step compared to WSing at every opportunity.

SC's only really work for very small groups with one or two DD's coordinating them. Well augmented Zulf spamming reso would beat Conq spamming Upheaval, the Conq should be using KJ anyway. Well augmented Zulf beats Rag in reso spam, assuming you don't need the accuracy (big *** assumption). For the WAR it's important to make sure they are 5/5 Savagery and have the relic head, using that right before you start the reso spam is a huge *** boost to the parties damage output. MSBR just make it even sillier.

Cheers Saeval, this is why we got Quilly a Zulfiqar. He needs to augment it better, but for sure his accuracy is fine. That's on the to-do list.
Well, the question is What is his accuracy at pre buffs

As good, if not better than mine. I'd have to ask him, but you guys can easily find how much accuracy I have in the DRK thread on page 134. All my gearsets there, with accuracy values before any buffs. Luckily he's changed job just now and asking him for his.

Edit: Ok so some values from Quilly. Just comparing his mythic to Zulfiqar, but also consider he hasn't got a great augment on GS yet.

w/ Conqueror & Max acc set = 1262
w/ Zulfiqar & Max acc set = 1256
w/ Zulfiqar & TP w/ buffs set = 1194
 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-08-11 17:54:39  
so add 100 for sublime, 100+ for vorseals, 100+ for songs not sure if geo buffs will be for acc or what not, not my area.

so 1494 at a minimum so as long as not going lower than 1450 should be able to cap accuracy

multi hit and WS tp return should be seeing what 1 ws every 3~4 sec for whole fight aside from self buffs and temp use.

as long as every DD can do roughly the same number of WS, tank lives, Adds die all should go as well as hoped.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-11 17:58:36  
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
so add 100 for sublime, 100+ for vorseals, 100+ for songs not sure if geo buffs will be for acc or what not, not my area.

so 1494 at a minimum so as long as not going lower than 1450 should be able to cap accuracy

multi hit and WS tp return should be seeing what 1 ws every 3~4 sec for whole fight aside from self buffs and temp use.

as long as every DD can do roughly the same number of WS, tank lives, Adds die all should go as well as hoped.

Yeah the +3s give tons of accuracy due to the set bonus. Hoping to get an argosy head +1 soon to boost Reso, as I already have the feet. We just need a clean run I think. Had interest from another LS struggling to low man it so we should be able to team up and have options.
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 Asura.Avallon
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-08-12 14:21:40  
Win?
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-12 14:23:35  
Asura.Avallon said: »
Win?

Lol dude, we ain't even set a date. Yet to talk to the other LS, and this week coming we got an event set up already. It's going to take time and much discussion and preparation before we can get a date and time set. Also its school holidays, so I got the kid to look after, further limiting time on the game. :)
 Asura.Avallon
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-08-12 14:42:21  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Asura.Avallon said: »
Win?

Lol dude, we ain't even set a date. Yet to talk to the other LS, and this week coming we got an event set up already. It's going to take time and much discussion and preparation before we can get a date and time set. Also its school holidays, so I got the kid to look after, further limiting time on the game. :)

Oh, gotcha. For some reason I thought you guys were ready to go!
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 Leviathan.Vedder
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By Leviathan.Vedder 2017-08-12 14:47:36  
Good luck kylos, wish I could be there to help. If servers ever merge I hope we get the chance. Seem like a stand up dude.
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 Leviathan.Sidra
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By Leviathan.Sidra 2017-08-12 17:04:42  
Bard Soul Voicing Honor March and both Madrigals is over 400 accuracy. Should cover all of Accuracy needs.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-14 08:23:11  
Leviathan.Sidra said: »
Bard Soul Voicing Honor March and both Madrigals is over 400 accuracy. Should cover all of Accuracy needs.

We have a bard but he don't have Honor March yet. He's just got the beads to start his aeonic quest though (he returned to the game earlier this year).
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-14 08:36:56  
So I'd like to give a rough guess to who we can use from my linkshell for this, to make it easier for outside help to decide on their jobs:

PLD / RUN -- Kalaviled can PLD, however, he can GEO as well. He should be able to hold adds, but only with support. We do not have any RUNs yet. Last time we did this we had Nailah.

DDs -- I can DRK, Quilly can WAR. Kalaviled can BLU if needed. Can't think of anyone else who could do it. A WAR with ragnarok and great gear could replace Q (flaminglegion has this) so he could go SMN.

(I don't know if I want a SMN in this setup though, it seems pointless unless we plan to get the buffs and drop them before the fight)

WHM -- We have three choices here, either Highewing (also has Idris GEO, but is the most experienced WHM we have), Ishikata, and Myathi who isn't always online. We might need two WHM for this, and being able to get Highewing on GEO boosts our bubbles considerably.

BRD - Drizztwest, he does not have Aeonic but is close to finishing Relic. Otherwise we'd have to ask for outside help. Angelofsky joined us in the past. If Drizz wasn't a BRD he would have to go THF, or would have no choice but to sit out.

GEO - Rusch is Idris GEO for life. Otherwise we have Highewings Idris GEO, Kalaviled master GEO, and a couple of other members in the LS who could jump on the job and give standard bubbles.

We do not have a RDM if we wanted to make use of it. Aydogan has stated he can Corsair for us. The German LS who are interested has a tank and some other jobs we can make use of. At the moment I'd say we are missing a RUN and Aeonic BRD for the best chance of success.
 Cerberus.Vanfrog
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By Cerberus.Vanfrog 2017-08-14 10:07:51  
I would have Kalaviled or Ishikata ask for help from their other shell Ozmozis....

It may be mostly a social/new player shell but it has a lot of Master members w/ HQ gear, Including many of the jobs your looking for.
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-14 11:53:07  
I'd rather they didn't. No offense to anyone in there, I'm willing to take players from it if they need it, but I'm not reaching out to the LS. I don't want to state my reasoning here.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-14 12:44:01  
So we recruited a family of 3 to our ranks. They should be able to cover most of the jobs we don't have, except Aydogan who can COR for us.

With that said, we are planning on doing Kirin / Kouryu at the following date and time:

Tuesday 22nd 11pm BST 6pm EST. This is for any American players who may find it difficult to be on for 5 EST. We will attempt this at least three times if we run into trouble, so I expect players to stay for the three attempts if we need it. If you cannot make this time, let me know and I'll see if we can rearrange it better. Cheers.

Also thanks to Lemuel for the interest. I'd like to get you in somewhere, but at the moment I want to see how the party setup will be before I can promise a place is available.
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-08-14 14:46:22  
Which strategy are you going to try?
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-14 16:09:26  
Asura.Avallon said: »
Which strategy are you going to try?

DD all the way. We don't have any killer BLMs or an army of Summoners so it will fall to me and Q again to deliver the goods.
 Cerberus.Bongsolo
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By Cerberus.Bongsolo 2017-08-15 04:08:00  
Can help if I'm on. Master sch, cor, blu, pup, nin, thf,
jobs not that far off, 1000+~ smn, run, bst. Pld is master ochain, need 20 o. pieces to finish aegis grinding atm, should be done by then.
 Cerberus.Vanfrog
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By Cerberus.Vanfrog 2017-08-15 06:55:15  
Well....
I was meaning for them to reach out to some of the more talented members .... Not the whole ls. Several of us have the win under our belts already.
I was just suggesting to be nice.
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2017-08-15 09:35:29  
Good luck guys! If I'm online maybe I'll head down to watch.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-22 12:59:18  
Thanks Shadow.

Doing this tonight, but can only take 8-10 (LS members have priority) of us as it will scale badly after that. We might be able to switch some people in/out if we beat it on another attempt if they need the win.
 Asura.Avallon
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-08-22 13:10:54  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Thanks Shadow.

Doing this tonight, but can only take 8-10 (LS members have priority) of us as it will scale badly after that. We might be able to switch some people in/out if we beat it on another attempt if they need the win.

Mirror's and Steadfast Tonics at 50%!

Good luck, Kylos. Hope you guys win.
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2017-08-22 13:12:31  
I meant literally just watch. Like out of the alliance. Would be fun.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-22 13:14:48  
Asura.Avallon said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Thanks Shadow.

Doing this tonight, but can only take 8-10 (LS members have priority) of us as it will scale badly after that. We might be able to switch some people in/out if we beat it on another attempt if they need the win.

Mirror's and Steadfast Tonics at 50%!

Good luck, Kylos. Hope you guys win.

Cheers man. Think we going to rip it a new one to minimize adds. Going to pop the longer temps (Bravers, Monarchs) just before Kirin pop, and the others (Barb/Fighters) just before 50% so we can get in position on Kouryu and pop Mirrors/Steadfast. Q will warcry and Mighty Strikes, while I Soul Enslavement straight after.

We probably going to have Flaminglegion on his Rag WAR to provide more DD power. We'll have three of us spamming Reso so should go down quick. Only thing I'm worried about is Genbu coming out (Invincible), or Terror hitting us after tonics wear out (I don't think anyone has RUN). Either way, we are way stronger than last time we tried this.
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2017-08-22 14:58:42  
we normally WAR zerg him as well. But we always have one DD be thf, for invincible.
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-22 17:42:28  
Looking for a tank and white mage (or Geo with idris) to get this started. /tell in-game if interested.
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-08-22 18:48:34  
Just not enough players today. Gave it a shot for the sake of getting some members experience with a setup we knew wouldn't get us a win. Not enough choice. Having to rely on mule whms. "(Linkshell) (Looking For Members)"
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By Kodaijin 2017-08-23 08:16:59  
Just transfer already
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