Clear Up Misinformation About Luopan And Hate

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2010-06-21
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Clear up misinformation about luopan and hate
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 Carbuncle.Hamburgerz
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By Carbuncle.Hamburgerz 2016-04-23 23:45:47  
I just wanted to clear up some misinformation about geo- spells and hate because I'm tired of being called out in parties by people that do not understand.

The monster I cast my luopan on places me on its hate list without further action. I do not need to cure or dia or take any action on that monster for the debuff to take place.

Any other monsters that stroll in to my luopan bubble after the initial monster need some action from me for the debuff to take effect.

So on an apex crab for example, the first crab I cast a geo- spell on has the debuff with out further action. When that crab dies the next crab pulled will need an action from me to get the debuff from the bubble.

If you non Geos do not believe me meet me in West Sarutabaruta and watch me geo-paralyze a mandy and sit there as he is paralyzed.
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2016-04-23 23:54:12  
I'll add an interesting tidbit to this.

For the purposes of applying geomancy, the GEO being agro'd also counts as being on the hate list. Training agroing mobs with Indi-Gravity is amusing.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2016-04-24 00:56:33  
Carbuncle.Hamburgerz said: »
The monster I cast my luopan on places me on its hate list without further action. I do not need to cure or dia or take any action on that monster for the debuff to take place.

Who didn't know this? Is this actually something people are unaware of?
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By Draylo 2016-04-24 01:02:30  
This is a little different in Vagary/Incursion/Ambuscade though. They have some weird kind of hate (someone probably has the reason somewhere) and they get the effect w/o an action being done to them.
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 Bismarck.Snprphnx
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2016-04-24 01:04:29  
Draylo said: »
This is a little different in Vagary/Incursion/Ambuscade though. They have some weird kind of hate (someone probably has the reason somewhere) and they get the effect w/o an action being done to them.

Auto-alliance hate, perhaps?
 Valefor.Omnys
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By Valefor.Omnys 2016-04-24 01:08:43  
Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
Who didn't know this? Is this actually something people are unaware of?

As a GEO, there are plenty of things about jobs people don't play that they don't know. I can forgive misinformed people so long as they listen once shown.

All people hear is that the GEO needs to get on the hate list for the bubble to take effect. That information is second-hand and third-hand all the way to people who don't understand anything about the job, so they don't realize applying a bubble to a mob gives you hate on that single target, the same as dia, blind or provoke.

Just demonstrate it for them, pull something with GEO-Poison (since it's 25 mp).

As with most players who don't know these things, posting on forums isn't going to reach many of the people who need to read it.
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 Carbuncle.Hamburgerz
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By Carbuncle.Hamburgerz 2016-04-24 01:17:14  
A few times now in SR, on some unity nms, and in escha I have had different people telling me I need to cast cure on someone or dia for the geo- spell I just casted on the nm to take effect.

I geo-malaised Arciela in SR and the sch and blms refused to start casting on her until I also diaed to get on her hate list.

I do not know where they got their information, but I'm tired of defending myself lol.
 Asura.Fujilives
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By Asura.Fujilives 2016-04-24 01:26:30  
the OP is correct, but keep in mind that if you cast a "buff" geo-spell instead of a "debuff" one, you'll still need to take an action upon the enemy to trigger the effects.

For example, consider this scenario and combination with 2 Geos:

Imagine a mob does massive AOE magic dmg (dropping bubbles quickly) but also does nasty Debuffs that can be completely (or nearly completely) be avoided via vex/attune.

Geo1 might do:
Indi-Vex (Debuff, but not targeted on the mob)
Geo-Fury (Buff, doesn't require targeting of the mob).

Geo2 might do:
Indi-Attument (Buff)
Geo-Frailty (Debuff, targeted on the mob).

This setup is fairly common and gets used in a few 135+ areas of the game as it can generate near-complete immunity many debuffs without risking a bubble going down from the massive AOE dmg (which may result in a debuff landing and screwing up a fight).

In this scenario, Geo2 will not need to take another action, as his Geo-Frailty will have effected the mob, but Geo1 WILL need to take an action for Indi-Vex to take effect, since he technically hasn't interacted with the mob yet, since Geo-Fury is a "buff" bubble.

This is where the confusion stems from, and I'm sure there are people out there who hollar to "interact with the mob" as a geo out of pure habbit, but it's nothing to take offense to, it's just a common way to "cover your bases". For me, Geo often becomes so routine I just cast to interact with the mob purely out of habbit, without regard for which bubbles I currently have up (because honestly, most of the time it doesn't hurt to hit frazzle or distract anyhow).
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By floydtrey1 2016-05-04 02:08:38  
Also note that in parties such as Apex JP parties where the same bubble is being used for multiple mobs, the Geo does need to establish hate on each mob prior to the MB if the bubbles are to have an effect.

Pld Provokes mob and mob runs within sphere of Geo Malaise bubble.
SC is made and MB's are casted w/o Geo doing anything to mob.
Take note of MB Dmg.

repeat scenario and this time have GEO cast dia on mob after PLD provokes it. Notice the MB Dmg increase?

If it is a freshly casted debuff bubble on the monster then your established. if it's an old bubble. Re-establish.
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By Titanfoo 2016-05-04 03:12:14  
Geo has a lot of options for enfeeb's, and they should be enfeebling mobs regardless, the fact that so many geo don't cast on the mob at start of fight is sad.

at least frazzle that ***!!!!
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 Asura.Masrur
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By Asura.Masrur 2016-05-17 09:21:12  
Bump.

Tired of these lazy wannabe Geos that don't know this and yet want to participate in cp parties. Imagine these Geos endgame... Shudders at the thought.

Pull your weight or you will be kicked. I have removed a couple of recently. You can tell when Geo-Malaise is kicking in and which Geos are taking their jobs seriously, kills are quicker, cp gain shoots up.

Had some uneducated players argue... Even if you don't believe the OP's findings... Casting dia or frazzle on every mob ain't difficult, so pull that finger out your <rear>.

A sought after job is not an excuse to be lazy/jerk. Geomancer is invited to cp parties for mainly for the unique debuffs, and if they ain't landing, what is your purpose?
 Cerberus.Avalon
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By Cerberus.Avalon 2016-05-17 09:54:23  
Asura.Fujilives said: »
the OP is correct, but keep in mind that if you cast a "buff" geo-spell instead of an "debuff" one, you'll still need to take an action upon the enemy to trigger the effects.

For example, consider this scenario and combination with 2 Geos:

Imagine a mob does massive AOE magic dmg (dropping bubbles quickly) but also does nasty Debuffs that can be completely (or nearly completely) be avoided via vex/attune.

Geo1 might do:
Indi-Vex (Debuff, but not targeted on the mob)
Geo-Fury (Buff, doesn't require targeting of the mob).

Geo2 might do:
Indi-Attument (Buff)
Geo-Frailty (Debuff, targeted on the mob).

This setup is fairly common and gets used in a few 135+ areas of the game as it can generate near-complete immunity many debuffs without risking a bubble going down from the massive AOE dmg (which may result in a debuff landing and screwing up a fight).

In this scenario, Geo2 will not need to take another action, as his Geo-Frailty will have effected the mob, but Geo1 WILL need to take an action for Indi-Vex to take effect, since he technically hasn't interacted with the mob yet, since Geo-Fury is a "buff" bubble.

This is where the confusion stems from, and I'm sure there are people out there who hollar to "interact with the mob" as a geo out of pure habbit, but it's nothing to take offense to, it's just a common way to "cover your bases". For me, Geo often becomes so routine I just cast to interact with the mob purely out of habbit, without regard for which bubbles I currently have up (because honestly, most of the time it doesn't hurt to hit frazzle or distract anyhow).

What if GEO #1 is in a different party then GEO #2? Will party #2 benefit from Indi-Vex if GEO #1 is on the hate list? This is yet another scenario that's been argued and debated endlessly.

Or how about Indi-Languor from GEO #1 in party #1. Would the BLM's in party #2 benefit from it for their MB's?
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2016-05-17 09:59:55  
Vex and Langour are debuffs. They apply to the mob. SO yes, as long as the geo applying the Debuff is on the hatelist, anyone acting on the debuffed mob will see those benefits.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-05-17 10:04:24  
Cerberus.Avalon said: »
What if GEO #1 is in a different party then GEO #2? Will party #2 benefit from Indi-Vex if GEO #1 is on the hate list? This is yet another scenario that's been argued and debated endlessly.

It's a debuff on the target, everyone on the server benefits from it. If someone was able to teleport into your BC instance and be completely out of the alliance, they still get the benefit of the target having lower stats.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-05-17 10:16:27  
Asura.Masrur said: »
Bump.

Tired of these lazy wannabe Geos that don't know this and yet want to participate in cp parties. Imagine these Geos endgame... Shudders at the thought.

Pull your weight or you will be kicked. I have removed a couple of recently. You can tell when Geo-Malaise is kicking in and which Geos are taking their jobs seriously, kills are quicker, cp gain shoots up.

Had some uneducated players argue... Even if you don't believe the OP's findings... Casting dia or frazzle on every mob ain't difficult, so pull that finger out your <rear>.

A sought after job is not an excuse to be lazy/jerk. Geomancer is invited to cp parties for mainly for the unique debuffs, and if they ain't landing, what is your purpose?

I don't understand the mindset of some people. If you don't believe that that is how luopans work, party up with a friend and walk into a starter area. Cast geo-poison on a mob, watch it die. Now have your friend pull another mob into the bubble. Does it die? Boom, mystery solved. Try with indi-poison as well for the sake of research.

This applies to other "mysteries" of luopans as well. There seems to be some contention as to whether or not Bolster effects last on the bubbles after the JA wears off. Walk outside, hit Bolster, throw Geo-Barrier on yourself. Watch the defense stat as the effect wears. Boom, mystery solved.

If people want to have debates about how geomancy spells work in weird situations like Incursion or on enemies with hate reset mechanics, that's fine. Let's just get past the stuff that takes mere minutes to figure out.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2016-05-17 10:22:44  
For reference, Fend is magic defense bonus+, thus not visible in any menu. You're probably thinking Barrier, which is normal def+.
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 Asura.Foreverj
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By Asura.Foreverj 2016-05-17 10:24:25  
If anything just cast something on the mob. Boom. Takes 2 secs. Go back to afking.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-05-17 10:26:05  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
For reference, Fend is magic defense bonus+, thus not visible in any menu. You're probably thinking Barrier, which is normal def+.

Fixed. That's what I get for typing up something fast while at work, lol. Thanks.
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [224 days between previous and next post]
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By trinironnie 2016-12-27 11:38:46  
question what if a tank pulls a group of mobs...and i throw a cure at him...will that register me on all the mobs he is holding?
 Bahamut.Alexcennah
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By Bahamut.Alexcennah 2016-12-27 11:58:47  
Yes, if the tank did a direct action against them (diaga for example).
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2016-12-27 12:00:28  
If he's supertanking them, then no.
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By trinironnie 2016-12-27 19:36:20  
Sweet thxs for clearing that up guys. ^_^
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By Pantafernando 2016-12-27 20:10:50  
trinironnie said: »
question what if a tank pulls a group of mobs...and i throw a cure at him...will that register me on all the mobs he is holding?

Probably depend on the place youre fighting. I never really payed attention on this as this seemed natural, but i think in both SR and vagary you can reuse a luopan already placed without needing a geo to take an action. SR i think is this way because i use geo mule, and dont recast bubble between first second wave, but if the luopan is destroyed, the drop in dmg is noticeable. Vagary, im used to reuse bubble in Brass gate to aja the mobs (malaise), and i think the drop in dmg is noticeable when the luopan is destroyed.

Those events, though, seems to have different hate system.
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By Pantafernando 2016-12-27 20:18:00  
Anyway, geo buffs/debuffs are pretty strong, so its very visible if something is off. You just need to check your log to notice if your luopon is having an effect or no. If your oarty dmg is cut in half, if your party is taking way more damage than usual, its easy to see and even more easy to fix.
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By trinironnie 2016-12-28 06:24:31  
This came up because of Omen, because if i diaga when we pull the mob floors i usually get beat up lol.
 Asura.Sesono
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By Asura.Sesono 2016-12-28 07:41:49  
Everytime i see people shout for GEO in Reisenjima AOE party i go *facepalm* ...and that happens quite often. When you try to explain them why this doesnt work - they do it anyway because they "like" it... *facepalm²*
 Asura.Biglovin
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By Asura.Biglovin 2017-01-03 13:37:09  
Asura.Sesono said: »
Everytime i see people shout for GEO in Reisenjima AOE party i go *facepalm* ...and that happens quite often. When you try to explain them why this doesnt work - they do it anyway because they "like" it... *facepalm²*

If the AOE party consists of nukers (blu/blm) then having a geo for INDI-malaise and GEO-accumen would help. When consisting of Bsts you can use INDI-Frailty and GEO-fury (although I'm not 100% on geo buffs affecting pets.) Either way, those buffs while /cor for more exp isn't a bad trade off to having a Cor or Brd in group that does the same thing.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2017-01-03 13:46:20  
Malaise and Frailty would only help if the GEO tagged/aggro'd the mobs and it made a difference in kill speed, neither of which is guaranteed. Geocolures are a waste of time and MP for cleaving.

I do like having a GEO along as BLU though. Indi-Haste is nice for keeping Spectral Floe and Tenebral Crush recast to a minimum, and the GEO can mop up with a -ra spell as needed.
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 Asura.Biglovin
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By Asura.Biglovin 2017-01-03 14:21:28  
I was wrong. I can see the point on recast and "mopping up", though.
 Valefor.Omnys
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By Valefor.Omnys 2017-01-03 14:28:40  
trinironnie said: »
This came up because of Omen, because if i diaga when we pull the mob floors i usually get beat up lol.

So far, hate mechanics on trash work fine in Omen (normal hate). I can agro a bunch of mobs and if noone hits them, they'll continue to hit me. IF someone hits one that I have no hate on, that mob will have an active hate list.

This is "supertanking" and no, curing me wouldn't do anything. If I have provoked/flashed/hit one mob, curing me will put you and your bubble on the hate list of that mob.

If you have a sleeper (like a bard), curing him after the sleep will work.

If you have a RUN tank, he can shockwave followed immediate by a foil and things should stay off the mages. He needs to keep using foil.

If you have a PLD tank, there are some aoe hate things they can do:
Sub Blue Mage or
Circle Blade followed by palisade, warcry, rampart or sentinel or even reprisal has some decent hate for this purpose. PLD can continue building this hate by curing themselves, but it can be difficult to get spells off without an SIRD kit if mobs won't behave.

Then again, trash is trash. You could just do party buffs if your routine setup might not handle aoe-hate well.
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