Brd Is Still Living In 75era.

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2010-06-21
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Brd is still Living in 75era.
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By Armyguy 2015-09-03 10:59:28  
Ok guys/girls the problem i think is Brd is still using the old style of playing the needs an update. Im going to post what I think could help Bring back Brd as a main choice.
Im only going to focus on a few songs and show a few examples.

Can make 900 combind skill cap so 450/450.
MINUET:

Attack Buff:
*BRD w/ G-horn99 - Minuet V= +62, Minuet IV=+56 , Minuet III=+48, Minuet II=+32, Songs +5= +17Att
(62+17)+(56+17)+(48+17)+(32+17)=266
COR- Chaos Roll= +3.1-31.2%, Modifier(DRK)=+9.7 Ring+5=+15%
(3.1%-31.2%)+9.7%+15%=27.8%-55.9%
@1000ATK=+278/+559
GEO- Indi-Fury= +31% or 45% withDunna or 59% withIdris
@ 1000 ATK= 310-590

If SE would change BRD's Hard numbers to a percent it would make brd more useable.Examples.
Minute = 2% Minute II=4% Minute III=6% Minute IV=10% Minute V= 14% And each +1 = %1
Minute = +34% no G-horn, Emient Horn+2 = 42%, G-horn=50%, G-horn+Fili=54%
This would make brd have a high att if they choice to use 4songs on Minute.
And most brds wouldnt use all 4 songs on Minute. with 2 songs BRD w/ G-horn @ 39%.

Madrigal-
Are still on point if you use both Songs +45 ACC. W/ G-horn=+71

Pre-Lude-
Is really really good. If anythinig they should make Madrigal buff numbers like this.

Etude
+15 skill> 475skill and each +1 adds about 12sec.
Take the add time away and just give +5stat to fix

Foe Requiem
I know people might yell at me about this BUT. RequiemVII ONLY does 8 damage/TICK but Indi-Poison does 40/tic w/ dunna and 60/tic wit Idris. would it be wrong to ask for it to be buffed. MOBS today have so much HP.
Most worth killing have 1mil+.

Knights Minne
Again this is another song that has Base numbers and +gear makes Duration longer.
Minne V= 120Def ,Minne IV=97Def, Minne III=64, Minne II=41 total= 322 /sigh.
Come on SE how cant you see this.
Again Percent will fix this.
Minne=2%, MinneII=6% MinneIII=11% MinneIV=17% MinneV=24% +gear= 1/1%
w/o g-hron=60% w/g-horn=86%
Indi-Barrier= 60% w/ Dunna and 84% w/ Idris
@1000 def your talking 600-840 def

Also the range mechanic's is broke with Carols II, The Max range is all different.

These arnt hard numbers and it didnt take me long to do this. Im sure you can move numbers around, But the fact is Brd is still living in 75era and needs to be updated.[/CENTER]

Plz comment and add your thoughts. Thankyou
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-03 11:06:10  
Armyguy said: »
Im going to post what I think could help Bring back Brd as a main choice.
Wait, since when is BRD not a main choice?
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By Armyguy 2015-09-03 11:10:02  
Since everything dispel-ag
By Armyguy 2015-09-03 11:12:01  
BRD works for alot of ***but your fight will be longer.

GEO's buff make fights fast and quick.
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2015-09-03 11:17:26  
BRD is fine, it's used for most content. There's other jobs which deserve love well before BRD.
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 Sylph.Safiyyah
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-09-03 11:36:22  
Bard could use pet songs to work better in today's XI. Otherwise, it's still a very good job. BRD's biggest issue is that the job lives and dies by melee strategies. Since melee isn't that good right now bard has been devalued.

This could change in a flash if November's update gives melee buffs.
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 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-09-03 11:37:32  
The main reason to use Bard is to pair with a Geo so that the Geo doesn't have to use Haste and can use his superior Fury/Frailty/Vex/Attunement/whatever. I still bring a Brd to everything I do, for events like Sinister Reign, having Madrigalx2 is a huge deal since the accuracy caps are insane. Lullaby/Ballad still have uses depending on the event and such.

While dispeling is a problem for Brd, I would much rather take that over Geo buffs having to deal with Knockbacks/Bind/Grav/dying luopans. For instance I feel much safer getting my haste from a Brd than a Geo.
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By Sylph.Reain 2015-09-03 12:03:43  
I think you do somewhat have a point, but after bard being at the top for 10 years (except maybe for Embrava) I think you'll find little sympathy.

A lot of it is probably more GEO being balanced poorly. Compare a 5 GEO party to a 5 Bard party.

I think it's just something Bards have to accept is that they are no longer the strongest support class. Bard is still entirely viable to play though unlike some other jobs.

There definitely seems to be a strength divide pre/post adoulin and bard's only addition buff/debuffwise is Threnody II.

My pre-delve Bard could probably do most content acceptably today except for Threnody II.

Etudes are probably a bit weak compared to Boost spells since etudes take up a song slot and Boost spells have their own slot.

Carols and Stat resist songs are probably too weak when compared to attunement which does everything.

Requiem is probably fine with Requiem job points.

Carol II's range being different is to be expected when using a harp because they are different level songs (except Light Carol II and Dark Carol II) unless you mean this happens with a wind instrument?
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 Lakshmi.Minivict
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By Lakshmi.Minivict 2015-09-03 12:26:14  
What is this trash lol. 30/tic refresh Is not good enough ? Beast acc..the idea is to pair BRD with GEO and a cor and you'll be able to beat anything. That is a 5 song brd with mythic and g horn
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By Sylph.Traxus 2015-09-03 12:32:58  
Lakshmi.Minivict said: »
Beast acc..the idea is to pair BRD with GEO and a cor and you'll be able to beat anything.

Why use geo + brd + cor over geo + geo + geo?
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 Bismarck.Nickeny
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By Bismarck.Nickeny 2015-09-03 12:55:03  
Sylph.Traxus said: »
Lakshmi.Minivict said: »
Beast acc..the idea is to pair BRD with GEO and a cor and you'll be able to beat anything.

Why use geo + brd + cor over geo + geo + geo?


This. Whats the point since the other set up is inferior and doesn't even stay up 100% due to dispelaga that almost every new event does. Also with refresh sets and potions readily available too you should never run out of mp.
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-09-03 13:17:28  
Bismarck.Nickeny said: »
Sylph.Traxus said: »
Lakshmi.Minivict said: »
Beast acc..the idea is to pair BRD with GEO and a cor and you'll be able to beat anything.

Why use geo + brd + cor over geo + geo + geo?


This. Whats the point since the other set up is inferior and doesn't even stay up 100% due to dispelaga that almost every new event does. Also with refresh sets and potions readily available too you should never run out of mp.
Dispelga is not as much a problem as knockback is in my opinion.

A 3 song bard will provide: Haste cap, 81~ accuracy.
A Geo will provide: Haste cap, 70~ accuracy.
The difference is actually pretty minimal as you can see. Bard can also Lullaby (useful depending on event), Ballad (only really good for Geo), and Light Dispel (only useful in rare circumstances). If you are doing an event that doesn't require Accuracy, Bard takes a big hit but can still be a better option.

Personally I use the two interchangeably depending on which I can get first but would prefer a Brd.
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By Asura.Bryangelos 2015-09-03 14:21:58  
Idris geo gives haste cap, 100~ acc
By Armyguy 2015-09-03 15:33:25  
Look at the difference on Minuet & Minne. just saying some songs need to be updated.
and the carols II i was talking about using a harp.you can play fire carol II and have 20'yalm and water carol II is alot less distance.
By Armyguy 2015-09-03 15:37:51  
Asura.Failaras said: »
Bismarck.Nickeny said: »
Sylph.Traxus said: »
Lakshmi.Minivict said: »
Beast acc..the idea is to pair BRD with GEO and a cor and you'll be able to beat anything.

Why use geo + brd + cor over geo + geo + geo?


This. Whats the point since the other set up is inferior and doesn't even stay up 100% due to dispelaga that almost every new event does. Also with refresh sets and potions readily available too you should never run out of mp.
Dispelga is not as much a problem as knockback is in my opinion.

A 3 song bard will provide: Haste cap, 81~ accuracy.
A Geo will provide: Haste cap, 70~ accuracy.
The difference is actually pretty minimal as you can see. Bard can also Lullaby (useful depending on event), Ballad (only really good for Geo), and Light Dispel (only useful in rare circumstances). If you are doing an event that doesn't require Accuracy, Bard takes a big hit but can still be a better option.

Personally I use the two interchangeably depending on which I can get first but would prefer a Brd.

Dispelga sucks when you just buff everyone and they get dispeled and you have to cast 6songs for DD, 6for mages, and if you have a rng another 2.
Even if 1 song gets dispeled you dont know which so you have to do them all again. It be nice if SE made different Icon for different songs.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-03 15:44:57  
Why not have instant-cast songs, or the ability to sing 6 different songs all at once?

Since you are griping at the silliest things, why not just ask for an instrument that gives auto buffs all the time so you don't even have to bother to sing them, ever.
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By Skjalfeirdotter 2015-09-03 15:45:41  
SE can you please give Bard an Item Level 119 shield to go with that Nibiru Knife? :3
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By Sylph.Gobbo 2015-09-03 16:04:05  
Sylph.Reain said: »

My pre-delve Bard could probably do most content acceptably today except for Threnody II.

I was REALLY hoping that Threnody's resistance down influenced Magic Burst Bonuses, which imo really would've helped the job a lot in the mage meta.
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-09-03 16:35:07  
Asura.Bryangelos said: »
Idris geo gives haste cap, 100~ acc
Idris is also the most broken item they've added to this game. Comparing anything to an Idris is silly. This also assumes you have TWO idris Geos because you wouldn't one your Idris Geo to not do Fury/Freailty. Not to mention it's also the hardest REM to get.

Quote:
Dispelga sucks when you just buff everyone and they get dispeled and you have to cast 6songs for DD, 6for mages, and if you have a rng another 2.
Even if 1 song gets dispeled you dont know which so you have to do them all again. It be nice if SE made different Icon for different songs.
I'm not saying dispelga doesn't suck but if your a Geo and you get Knock Backed+Gravitied+Bound like happens very often in SR it's way more painful and common. Full dispels are rarer than knockbacks and the mages probably won't get full dispeled anyways. As far as song amount, most Brds will be putting up 4.
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By Armyguy 2015-09-03 20:36:41  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Why not have instant-cast songs, or the ability to sing 6 different songs all at once?

Since you are griping at the silliest things, why not just ask for an instrument that gives auto buffs all the time so you don't even have to bother to sing them, ever.

Brd's do have a nice Instant-cast set and if you sing 6 songs at once wouldnt just be 1 messed-up song?

Silliest things Hmmmm. BRD Att buff=266 with 4 songs
GEO att buff= 59% thats a big difference. and brd would almost never do 4 att songs when we always going to have 2 Acc songs up. SO. Att+152 or Geo Att+56%
By Armyguy 2015-09-03 20:42:57  
Asura.Failaras said: »
Asura.Bryangelos said: »
Idris geo gives haste cap, 100~ acc
Idris is also the most broken item they've added to this game. Comparing anything to an Idris is silly. This also assumes you have TWO idris Geos because you wouldn't one your Idris Geo to not do Fury/Freailty. Not to mention it's also the hardest REM to get.

Sometimes Having geox2 is great def down, eva down, Haste, Att+, or Mag eva down, MBD, Refresh, MAB+
Idris is broken?How? Luopan-25% and Geo+10 doesnt work?
Saying the Idris is hard to get.but a 99 D-harp isnt?
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-09-03 21:48:25  
Armyguy said: »
Asura.Failaras said: »
Asura.Bryangelos said: »
Idris geo gives haste cap, 100~ acc
Idris is also the most broken item they've added to this game. Comparing anything to an Idris is silly. This also assumes you have TWO idris Geos because you wouldn't one your Idris Geo to not do Fury/Freailty. Not to mention it's also the hardest REM to get.

Sometimes Having geox2 is great def down, eva down, Haste, Att+, or Mag eva down, MBD, Refresh, MAB+
Idris is broken?How? Luopan-25% and Geo+10 doesnt work?
Saying the Idris is hard to get.but a 99 D-harp isnt?
Broken as in overpowered, the weapon is too good. The point is in your setup of a Geo using Torpor+Haste a Brd is going to do exactly the same thing using March and Madrigalx2. Both will cap Haste, Bard will actually give more accuracy.
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By Asura.Bryangelos 2015-09-03 22:35:37  
A dunna Geo with 900 skill will provide 75 acc, brd is still more though based on your math of 81.
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By Asura.Cyleena 2015-09-03 22:55:41  
Most complaints I have heard is since bst got powerful brd is being left out for cor buffs, and that not many groups want brd cause of bst.

We do not use bst, but we still use geo, brd, and cor. We tend to use only brd for tanks or dd (we are fortunate to already have a couple 4 song brd available), and do not bother with them for mages. Geo buffs are fine for mages, but we are fortunate enough to have multiple geo (2 with Idris) so lack of having a good selection of geo buffs is not a issue for us.
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By Sylph.Reain 2015-09-03 23:07:25  
Asura.Failaras said: »
Broken as in overpowered, the weapon is too good. The point is in your setup of a Geo using Torpor+Haste a Brd is going to do exactly the same thing using March and Madrigalx2. Both will cap Haste, Bard will actually give more accuracy.

I don't think this is true. March, Madrigal x2 (plus haste) isn't enough to cap magical haste on it's own outside soul voice.

A 3 song bard would typically be casting March X2, Madrigal unless there's another source of haste (haste2, hastega2, embrava, indi/geo haste).
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-09-03 23:08:07  
That's really the only problem with Brd, it has no spot in Beastmaster Fantasy XI. Once/if melee come back into fashion it will once again be amazing, and for those of us like me that still use melee for everything Brd is still top tier. Mage wise I wouldn't say Brd is optimal but I do really appreciate having Marches for recast and Ballads on Geo. Most mages like Blm/Sch/Whm don't have mana problems these days but Geo just gets *** with that.

Quote:
I don't think this is true. March, Madrigal x2 (plus haste) isn't enough to cap magical haste on it's own outside soul voice.

A 3 song bard would typically be casting March X2, Madrigal unless there's another source of haste (haste2, hastega2, embrava, indi/geo haste).
With Blue Mage being the best and most common DD you only need Marchx1, although god knows how hard it is to get a Brd that has Marchx2'd his whole life to change things.
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By Asura.Cyleena 2015-09-03 23:24:46  
Asura.Failaras said: »
That's really the only problem with Brd, it has no spot in Beastmaster Fantasy XI. Once/if melee come back into fashion it will once again be amazing, and for those of us like me that still use melee for everything Brd is still top tier. Mage wise I wouldn't say Brd is optimal but I do really appreciate having Marches for recast and Ballads on Geo. Most mages like Blm/Sch/Whm don't have mana problems these days but Geo just gets *** with that.

Totally agree.
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 Siren.Bruno
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By Siren.Bruno 2015-09-03 23:34:04  
we still have Mazurka ;)
 
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