Magian Staffs

Seeing SE updating old content to a new v2 content, are we to see the magian trial v2 maybe? With that in mind is it worth investing the time into making the elemental staffs pref. the macc version?
If not are any of them viable to use in hard content/endgame?

You can never tell with SE if an update is going to be a flop or success. You'd just have to wait and see. If anything, it'd be something for the l33t players with nothing to do to invest time in. That's just my opinion though.

I think SE has said they are done making new magian trials, and those weapons, aside from RMEs would not be increased further.

That said, the m.acc/recast staves are really only good for spells you have to spam and really need to shave off that extra little bit from the recast, like Stun. Magic Acc-wise, all current tier SoA staves beat them.

so basicly only the thunderstaff is worth it for stun and the rest is almost worthless.

Personally, I think their uses are situational.

If you use GS/SC, then the Casting Time staves are tops at -14% Casting Time.

The Cure Potency Staff with a grip isn't quite as good as Tamaxchi w/Sors or Genbu Shield, but it isn't horrible either.

The Recast Time staves are good for spells where Accuracy and/or Potency aren't needed. Haste, Stoneskin, spells like those.

Also, for the love of Pete, DO NOT use the Apajamas Staff in Delve. You will get resisted, and your party will not be happy with you.

now thats good one. shaving of 14 sec from an ss will help allot:)
now i need to find out what the magic props are for the other ones like haste and phalanx:)

All of this. Honorable mention for the pet -PDT staff if you're looking to max that as well without Idris. For what it's worth, personally, I wouldn't bother with them at this time. With -ites recently getting a new use, I wouldn't be surprised to see geodes having another use soon.

yeh im not making the pet one cos im in the middle of the fight the most time, so i need the pdt of earth staff more, but the tip on the buff spells is golden:)

If you're with the melees in party content, I'd focus on a club TP/WS set before bothering with any staff. Depending on the fights, Realmrazer or Flash Nova geared correctly can rock things pretty well, and you'll already be far and away buffed to the point that you're not really a melee mage anymore.

So long as your Stun Set is up to date, you should have no issues with resists using ApaII, unless your melee are slow to kill. Remember, we didnt have all the m.acc gear we have now, nor all the SoA staves with 100+ m.acc when tier 1 delve first came out.

Damage staff for brd/blm since they have -casting time, for bard I have: fire, thunder, light.

You mean when stuns would get resisted after a handful and you would wipe accordingly? Yeah, that sounds like a wonderful thing to revert back to to shave off 14% that you should be making up elsewhere.

There's no reason that as SCH/BLM (or whatever your personally stunner preference) you should need 14% from your weapon. Getting gear haste at or close to 25% is not very difficult, 43% magic haste should be on you anyway, whatever Fast Cast you have on your final cast, Dark Arts' 10% native PLUS the -18/19% you should have (without Alacrity, which would put you even lower) from the combined Academic's Loafers and Pedagogy Mortarboard(+1) will be plenty sufficient for recast time.

100% unnecessary for the recast time staff *for Stun*.

I don't know that GEO(this is a GEO thread after all) can get close enough to function as a stunner without Apamajas, I know they have some strong fast cast options and haven't punched the numbers, but with just capped Gear/Magic haste you're looking at about ~14.4 seconds which from my experience isn't sufficient for 4 or 5 person Delve runs.

Resists were never horrible with Apamajas. If a fight got stupidly long, yeah it wouldn't cut it, but at that point a MACC option only buys you a few more before it will resist as well.

I do agree there is no reason to use it for SCH assuming you have proper buffs. Napkin math says you'd need something like 75% fast cast(37.5% recast reduction) to cap on GEO though, which doesn't sound very viable, including capped gear/magic haste.

I don't know if I've ever seen a situation where your GEO is your main stunner, and if they are, then you probably have a pretty bad setup anyway. If your GEO is only a support stunner, then they definitely don't have to worry about needing 14% quicker stuns either. Let's be serious, though: why would your GEO ever be anything except /RDM or /WHM when those are much more useful to, not only themselves but, the entire party?

ItemSet 327961
Jeweled Collar: Fast Cast +2
Artsieq Jubbah: Path C
Hagondes Cuffs: +18 MAcc
Hagondes Pants +1: +22 MAcc
If you have even close to this, you should not get resisted on Tojil, Dakuwaka, or Colkhab unless the fight drags on too long.
Also with Alacrity up, assuming you are running Tabula Rasa, your recasts should be sitting around 5-6 seconds at max, at least the last time I checked mine they were.

This thread isn't about whether or not "it's nice to have," it's about whether or not it's necessary, which it is in no way, shape or form *necessary*.

In no way, shape, or form will I say that Apamajas II is "nice to have". I would go as far as saying that if you are stunning in delve, main or support (although I don't see a reason for a support stunner for Tojil, Dakuwaka, or Colkhab), you should have this staff for stun. You can stack MAcc, Haste, and Fast Cast in slots outside of the weapon, without hurting yourself. Not having the staff is the lazy man's way of saying I don't want to do the trials to get it.

And, given that this is a GEO thread, in which SCH was only brought up as a "if you also main-stun, this is a good staff to have," it's counter-productive to say it's needed since no GEO should ever be main-stunning.

Also, -14% from a pretty bad staff, while trying to stack more m.acc, fast cast, etc, all on the assumption of casting endless Alacrity and relying on using Tabula Rasa, is a pretty terrible way to play SCH when you can just use head/feet for the same recast reduction and get a better result. Nothing wrong with the rest of your set for when you're using Alacrity, but no one should base SCH stunning around *always* using it.

Let's keep in mind the original question: "With that in mind is it worth investing the time into making the elemental staffs pref. the macc version?"

I've taken a liking to solo stunning on RDM(since adding Haste II/Distract) in lieu of taking a SCH. The concept being that I have a job that can supply its full buffs/debuffs while still stunning.

GEO would fill this role just fine as well assuming you could reach the appropriate recast time. I may be biased however. I know my WHM is on top of his ***so I know subbing /WHM is adding close to nothing, and that I won't run into MP issues that would require /RDM. I also am running with five people max: My WHM friend, 1 or 2 DD-only kind of people, and 2 jobs covered by me, so I do try to cover as many buffs as I possibly can without dedicating a spot to SCH for stuns.

In a pug scenario I'd expect things to be more hectic, so you'd likely get good mileage out of a different sub, and doubt you could even convince them to bring you as GEO solo stunning. In the case of GEO, if you're planning on solo stunning you will absolutely need the staff, if you have a partner or are only off-stunning you have a lot more leeway.

It's hard to say how GEO would fit into your setup, since you didn't specify your jobs, but if you're only taking 5 people and even remotely think they could reach -80%, then you have to have a BRD. If that's the case, then your GEO should be at, or close to, full gear haste, capped magic haste, and should only need 12% recast reduction (24% total FC), which isn't very difficult with the amount of fast cast out there.

One of the SE ppl said recently that it would be on the table to "upgrade magian weapons"...
No indication to what level...
No indication to any sort of actual working towards a set goal...
But it was AFTER they said they would no longer do Magian stuff...
(Like a few months ago vs the two years ago that they claimed to not do any Magian stuff ever again.)
And given their recent "iLv all the things" mentality...

It wouldn't surprise me that if they did add another tier.... That they would do it to coincide with iLv Empy upgrades.
Though I would bet that it would come after iLv empy sets... If they do so at all.

Its my understanding that Haste and FC are multiplicative which is where I got my initial requirement of 75% fast cast. Assuming Magian Staff is applied in the same step as fast cast that lowers the requirement to 23.5% recast reduction or 47% actual fast cast. I'm not entirely sure that its combined in that step though

I was always under the impression recast terms were additive, based on my WHM tests, however, according to FFXIclopedia, (even though slightly dated on numerical figures, the math probably still stands) the formula is:


So, for our Stun discussion, given full gear haste, max magic haste and 30% Fast Cast (reasonable), where it is a 45 second base, with a minimum of 9 sec recast:

floor( [1-68] * truncate( [1-.15] * 45 ) )
floor( .32 * (.85 * 45) )
floor( .32 * 38.3 )
floor(12.256)

12 sec recast

The staff in question would be an additional step with the flooring, so with those numbers:

floor( .86 * .32 * 38.3 )
floor(10.54)

10 sec recast

If that is correct, you gain 2 sec by using that staff, though the concept of flooring recast timers seems fishy to me. Either way, though, even if they aren't floored, you do gain time, *if* that is correct.

geo brd whm rdm can all stun in delve I. in fact a rdm can main heal and stun at the same time (had a whm dc right before tojil, so we fought it anyway and had no issue. this was with a leech buying oatixurs, for 6m, lol) all of them can stun without the staff. ive personally done it on all of them without it.

If I understand the bgwiki's info on recast.

It should be:
Recast*(1-haste)*(1-Floor[FastCast/2]-RecastGear)*(1-JobAbility)
Job abilities include Seigan, Hasso, composure, light arts, dark arts, stratagems, and gear that augments said abilities.

just going to use #s prevously thrown out in this thread.
Floor(45*1024*.32*.71*1)/1024=10.2236328125
30fps game, round up to nearest frame =10.23333 second recast

Recast is 10bits, xx xxxx xxxx. which is where the 1024 came into play.

w/o ToM(II) staff:
RndUP(30*Floor(45*1024*.32*.85*1)/1024)/30=12.26666 second recast