Cor/Rng

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2010-06-21
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Cor/Rng
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 Quetzalcoatl.Tassidaru
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tassidaru 2014-03-24 19:57:32  
Recently, I got into a Tojil run, I had finished gearing (cor/rdm, support spells and mab2) and the pt lead sent a tell saying I should go cor/rng, not having ever lvled rng I informed him of that fact and he booted me from the run. so is there something to cor/rng for delve boss runs or should I just shrug and ignore it?
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 Quetzalcoatl.Jhedin
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By Quetzalcoatl.Jhedin 2014-03-24 20:18:46  
Was it a 6-man run or something? I've only done 18-man Delve, never had a COR/RNG request. I suppose for bee/bird I could see it, possibly, but yeah, I'd be surprised to hear that on a Tojil, too.
 Cerberus.Tidis
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2014-03-24 20:29:03  
I suppose /rng is a great choice of sub for a DD cor with the various abilities and definitely the accuracy bonus to help with the B in marksmanship but I have never seen someone ask or been asked to go cor/rng for a delve run, certainly not Tojil. The norm has always been to make the cor/whm and go full support.
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 Sylph.Agentblade
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By Sylph.Agentblade 2014-03-24 20:36:08  
I have always gone COR/DNC myself for teh first 3 delve zones. Haste samba and steps helps out alot with 18 man and low man in my own experience. Req. helps out on the first 25% of tojil followed by LS spam afterwards. For new delve I go Cor/rng to buff and pewpew. WC also helps to reset overkill for the rngs and you can TP from a safe distance to avoid nasty AoE. With a good racc/ratt set you can put out some nice damage and have rng JA to help you through. The only thing im not sure on is if camo works the same if rng is a sub. I hope this helps and happy pewpewin!
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-03-25 06:20:56  
Quetzalcoatl.Tassidaru said: »
Recently, I got into a Tojil run, I had finished gearing (cor/rdm, support spells and mab2) and the pt lead sent a tell saying I should go cor/rng, not having ever lvled rng I informed him of that fact and he booted me from the run. so is there something to cor/rng for delve boss runs or should I just shrug and ignore it?


/sigh PUG quality these days D:

I can't comment on newer content like delve 2/skirmish2/neo zilart brothers BC, since I haven't play for months. But for older content like Tojil, /WHM for support or /DNC for DD.

For all 3 delve1 content:
/WHM for support or /DNC for DD. I suppose you can /RDM if you only ever want to haste/dia2 and QD.

For AA battles:
/NIN for less risk and avoid 1 shot kill, /WHM for support, /WAR if you want to take the risk and push your output higher.


/RNG is really, really rarely used. I've only ever use it on VD AA before I obtain my 119 AF due to low ranged acc, after I got my 119 AF I no longer need it.

Maybe you'd need it for newer content, but I see zero reason to make it a requirement in Tojil runs. COR/DNC has much higher output than COR/RNG in Tojil runs.

I'd say just shrug and ignore it.
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 Fenrir.Atheryn
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By Fenrir.Atheryn 2014-03-25 06:45:07  
I find this incredibly ironic, because several years ago when I first wanted to train COR, every COR wanted to be /RNG in parties for everything, and there was an occasional forum post about why JP parties were asking COR's to /WHM instead, and how ridiculous that was.
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 Asura.Ivykyori
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By Asura.Ivykyori 2014-03-25 06:49:04  
I've heard of /whm, /rdm, and /dnc for Tojil. /RNG? I used to hear it more often a long time ago, but not so much anymore.

Hell, I haven't seen a COR in a Tojil run in a while now that I think about it--my ls took 2 geos and 3 brds in lieu of one.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-03-25 07:34:08  
Normally you'd want dnc sub, as others said, when you want to dd. I can understand using /rng when melee is dangerous, so I guess your party leader wanted you to contribute damage, but at the same time was afraid another melee would just be a hassle on the whm. So in a way it makes sense as /rng is the best sub to shoot currently(for the accuracy, as there are some very evasive mobs even in old delve zones).
I don't see rdm being very beneficial in a Tojil run anyway since WF is out in there(only useful in Kamihr really) and QD charges should be used mostly for Dia4.

At the end of the day cor's sub heavily depends on what your party needs, as it can adapt well for many roles:
Is additional support required? Whm.
If it isn't, can you melee? Dnc.
Melee is dangerous? Rng.
Nin is an odd ball, but can be needed in AAs.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-03-25 07:38:31  
I generally run with preferences of /war > /dnc > >>>>> /rdm /whm.

Back in the old days of exp it was stupid for a corsair to /whm. I know a lot of Japanese players are unimpeachable to the Japanophiles of FFXI, but /whm and pulling in a merit party -- while able to be done just fine -- was lost opportunity. Corsair could keep up rolls and damage, the rdm or whm healed and the bard pulled /nin. It got you the most damage and the most benefit out of all your buffs. But even then if you had to /rng for acc instead of going /war, you were sort of in trouble.

On current content I must admit to being thoroughly disgusted with corsair's role. (Heh. Roll.)

My preference is always /war or /dnc. /rng if you need to shoot from a distance but your acc is bad enough to not use /war. However, given the "we need maximum buffs!" mindset these days, corsairs and bards end up swapping through parties the way a jug of moonshine is passed around a hillbilly jamboree.

I personally detest this practice, even though I understand it to be vital to the current content.* I was probably one of the only people happy when they took away the buff-holding-on-dialogue phenomena. In my opinion I'd like to see buffs limited to a party, and buffs drop when the buffer drops from party. But everyone would lose their god damn minds at that, so I'm not holding my breath.

*Please take note of the italicized comment before attacking my position. Realize that I do the majority of my ls events on samurai and ranger, NOT corsair. Hence, I do -- in fact -- benefit from this practice as much as anyone. That doesn't mean I don't love corsair, however, and the practice of corsairs (and bards, really) only being roll and haste/erase/-na machines pisses me off in ways beyond imagination.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-03-25 07:40:57  
Fenrir.Atheryn said: »
I find this incredibly ironic, because several years ago when I first wanted to train COR, every COR wanted to be /RNG in parties for everything, and there was an occasional forum post about why JP parties were asking COR's to /WHM instead, and how ridiculous that was.

See my prior post, but it was, in fact, ridiculous of them to be asking for this in oldschool exp parties. IMO Delve has been the first content where going /whm has been even moderately necessary or useful.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-03-25 08:24:20  
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
I personally detest this practice
Me too. I'd be absolutely fine with them causing buffs to disappear if you drop party.
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 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-03-25 09:15:22  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Normally you'd want dnc sub, as others said, when you want to dd. I can understand using /rng when melee is dangerous, so I guess your party leader wanted you to contribute damage, but at the same time was afraid another melee would just be a hassle on the whm. So in a way it makes sense as /rng is the best sub to shoot currently(for the accuracy, as there are some very evasive mobs even in old delve zones).
I don't see rdm being very beneficial in a Tojil run anyway since WF is out in there(only useful in Kamihr really) and QD charges should be used mostly for Dia4.

At the end of the day cor's sub heavily depends on what your party needs, as it can adapt well for many roles:
Is additional support required? Whm.
If it isn't, can you melee? Dnc.
Melee is dangerous? Rng.
Nin is an odd ball, but can be needed in AAs.

In delve 1 you should be able to shoot fine with /WAR. I rarely notice ranged accuracy issue even in most evasive Ceizak zone.


Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Fenrir.Atheryn said: »
I find this incredibly ironic, because several years ago when I first wanted to train COR, every COR wanted to be /RNG in parties for everything, and there was an occasional forum post about why JP parties were asking COR's to /WHM instead, and how ridiculous that was.

See my prior post, but it was, in fact, ridiculous of them to be asking for this in oldschool exp parties. IMO Delve has been the first content where going /whm has been even moderately necessary or useful.

And legion melee burn before SoA ;x

I've tried MK with /WAR and melee+LS with other melee jobs in DD pt, in the end I find /WHM more useful unless you have a god like WHM in ally. /ra DPS doesn't make a damn difference with 5 melee zerging the NM down in 1~2 min.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-03-25 09:20:09  
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Normally you'd want dnc sub, as others said, when you want to dd. I can understand using /rng when melee is dangerous, so I guess your party leader wanted you to contribute damage, but at the same time was afraid another melee would just be a hassle on the whm. So in a way it makes sense as /rng is the best sub to shoot currently(for the accuracy, as there are some very evasive mobs even in old delve zones). I don't see rdm being very beneficial in a Tojil run anyway since WF is out in there(only useful in Kamihr really) and QD charges should be used mostly for Dia4. At the end of the day cor's sub heavily depends on what your party needs, as it can adapt well for many roles: Is additional support required? Whm. If it isn't, can you melee? Dnc. Melee is dangerous? Rng. Nin is an odd ball, but can be needed in AAs.
In delve 1 you should be able to shoot fine with /WAR. I rarely notice ranged accuracy issue even in most evasive Ceizak zone.
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Fenrir.Atheryn said: »
I find this incredibly ironic, because several years ago when I first wanted to train COR, every COR wanted to be /RNG in parties for everything, and there was an occasional forum post about why JP parties were asking COR's to /WHM instead, and how ridiculous that was.
See my prior post, but it was, in fact, ridiculous of them to be asking for this in oldschool exp parties. IMO Delve has been the first content where going /whm has been even moderately necessary or useful.
And legion before SoA ;x I've tried MK with /WAR and melee+LS with other melee jobs in DD pt, in the end I find /WHM more useful unless you have a god like WHM in ally. /ra DPS doesn't make a damn difference with 5 melee zerging the NM down in 1~2 min.

This has been my experience as well. When buffed, accuracy in the first three delves is rarely an issue. I've only been to the new ones ranger, so I can't speak to those yet.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-03-25 09:40:55  
Whm sub was never needed for Legion, if it was you had terrible support.
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 Leviathan.Blittzjr
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By Leviathan.Blittzjr 2014-03-25 09:42:22  
I don't see why this would be a requirement for old delve. But Cor/Rng is a good job selection for the new content.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-03-25 10:03:18  
I'm gonna go w/ Seha on Legion. /whm was never, ever necessary. Yes, even though things died quickly and you maybe didn't add a large amount, it was more than you'd add /whm.

I just absolutely despise /mage on corsair. Your MP pool is nil without gear. Gear swaps make maintaining that MP pool difficult. Your damage is neutered. You don't (or at least I don't) have room on my macro palette(s) for spells. Not to mention no room for that magery gear. I will just always be an opponent of the "pure support" corsair. I've always referred to corsair as a support DD. Not a support mage.

When I /mage for ls Delve runs, I generally go /whm and cover haste for a DD or two, erases/-na if AOE debuffs go off, and dia II/light shot. And it's boring as hell.

As far as godlike whm, I'm not going to inflate my whms' egos, but they're pretty decent in most cases.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-03-25 10:15:58  
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
In delve 1 you should be able to shoot fine with /WAR. I rarely notice ranged accuracy issue even in most evasive Ceizak zone.
I remember for sure having trouble with raptor in Morimar, though no other mobs come to mind as far as evasion goes. Keep in mind I've never had preludes, ever.

Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
have room on my macro palette(s) for spells
Same. I use spells manually from the menu. If I wanted to macro them I'd have to change two pages between those and my cor stuff, wasting even more time than using the menu -_-
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-03-25 10:44:10  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Same. I use spells manually from the menu. If I wanted to macro them I'd have to change two pages between those and my cor stuff, wasting even more time than using the menu -_-
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
You don't (or at least I don't) have room on my macro palette(s) for spells.

While I know this will not change your mind for /Mage, but for all your macro woes, I use both of these at the same time (They can work together for an additional +40 macro slots):

G510
G13
-----------------
Macro Book + Sets Shortcuts:

Of course, there's also /macro Book and /macro Set commands that are highly underutilized. For example, if you play on your Book1 Set1 you can make a single macro WHM-na' macro(say, Alt+0) to say:

/macro Book 10
/macro Set 1

Make macros for Book 10, Set 1 to have all your WHM -na's and make Alt+0 go refer back to Book1 Set1 with

/macro Book 1
/macro Set 1

and you're back! In your main macro palette, you only needed 1 macro for all your -nas. 1 button to access all of your common rolls.

By doing it this way, you only need 1 button for all your na's. You only need 1 button for all your bar spells. 1 button to access all of your commonly used COR rolls. The permutations are endless.

I'd always prefer the keyboards over macro sets because it's simply faster- but if you want a better option than scrolling down a list, doing it this way with a bit of muscle memory is way faster.

Disclaimer: Although I used WHM -na spells as an example, I do not support doing it this way because -na spells need to be done quickly with high precision. Less time sensitive operations such as COR rolls or BRD songs are good for this system.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-03-25 11:29:07  
I'm current having other issues with my G510. I had been using FFXIUtil and it worked just fine for what and how I used it, but now I can't figure out how to get it to work at all.

At first it would only work in one window, but wouldn't save anything between login sessions.

Then it wouldn't work in either at all.

It's actually been frustrating since I bought my new PC and can't manage to find FFXIUtil again. It wasn't perfect, but I can't get the native windower binder to work how I want it to work at all.

But you're right, it's not going to change my mind about /mage on cor. As you know me and know well that I've felt like this for years and years. :p

Though hey. I do it at all now as necessary. So clearly I see some merit in it now.

Edit: Also, I think you just broke my mind with the macro book commands. Is that native to XI or is that a Windower function? I wasn't aware of that. There's going to be some serious restructuring of my account's macros this weekend...
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-03-25 13:13:38  
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Edit: Also, I think you just broke my mind with the macro book commands. Is that native to XI or is that a Windower function? I wasn't aware of that. There's going to be some serious restructuring of my account's macros this weekend...

I believe it's entirely native to FFXI.

I've come up with many ideas for this sort of macro.

For COR, having a "Roll Mode" key is good. Assume your COR has all your common macros on Book1, Set 1. Let's imagine your current COR macro set, we'll call that Cor-NormalMode. I bet many people have Hunters, Chaos on two different macros. Some may have even more such as Samurai, Courser's, and Fighter's Roll. Get rid of them all and make one macro, say Ctrl+0 with:

/macro book 1
/macro set 10

In Book 1, Set 10 (Call it Cor-RollMode) place Hunter, Chaos, Samurai, Cousers, Fighters on Alt1, Alt2, Alt3, Alt4, Alt5. Place Cor-NormalMode on Ctrl+0 to toggle and set it to

/macro book 1
/macro set 1

Toggles is fine, but I find that having a macro you can reliably spam is easier to keep track of. If you standardize your sets so that Ctrl+0 is always COR-RollMode, (and make Ctrl+9 always Cor-NormalMode, even in Cor-Normal mode set) you can juggle multiple sets without getting confused. This way, if you decide to make Ctrl+8 "COR-naSpells", or "COR-WHMBarspells", or "COR-OddWS's" or "COR-ElementalShots" (tons of possibilites) you can really condense your main macro pallate and never run out of macros.

It's even more interesting for Bard!
 Shiva.Spathaian
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By Shiva.Spathaian 2014-03-25 13:22:50  
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Also, I think you just broke my mind with the macro book commands. Is that native to XI or is that a Windower function? I wasn't aware of that. There's going to be some serious restructuring of my account's macros this weekend...
I remember thinking the same thing when I found out about those commands, back when I was first deciding to level SCH. This guide was my first introduction to it and I ended up using it as a basis for my SCH macros and later restructuring it for all my other jobs (it made my PUP much more streamline than it used to be.)

The commands are FFXI native, so anyone can do it and I usually suggest it to anyone who questions me on how to make macros (especially those who don't use windower as it's easier on them if they're trying to use multiple macros for lets say a ws gear swap)
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-03-25 13:28:04  
I'll give it a go. A lot of the things I've got set are so reflexive now though that change might be really hard to do.

Still sort of hung up on the G510 thing though. Simply can't manage to get binder to work correctly for me despite following the -- what seem to be -- fairly simple instructions. Maybe I'll give that another go today too.
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-03-25 13:50:51  
Shiva.Spathaian said: »
I remember thinking the same thing when I found out about those commands, back when I was first deciding to level SCH. This guide was my first introduction to it and I ended up using it as a basis for my SCH macros and later restructuring it for all my other jobs (it made my PUP much more streamline than it used to be.)

The commands are FFXI native, so anyone can do it and I usually suggest it to anyone who questions me on how to make macros (especially those who don't use windower as it's easier on them if they're trying to use multiple macros for lets say a ws gear swap)

This all comes down to player preference, but here's more to think about:

Even when using these sets, some people, such as myself like to make multiple sets with the some same macros in multiple sets. If you look at the Scholar Macro Guide, their base set doesn't have immediate access to some important spells. It serves almost entirely as a hub, which is slow if you need to access multiple macros because you need to re-access your hub set in order to reach others.

For example, for Scholar, I have these that are universal on all macro sets.
1. Cure IV
2. Cure III
3. Haste
4. Sleep
5. Sleep 2
6. Gravity
7. Stun/Bind
8. (I have Stoneskin, Blink, Phalanx on my G510, but these would be there)

Let's say you were nuking on SCH and proceeding to another non-nuking action. In order to reach it, you have to go from your Hub-> Dark Arts-> NukeHub->Nuke->LightHub->CuresetHub->Cure. It is harder to play the job seamlessly this way (not arguing that you can't). If you have common macros there that are always static, it will decrease the amount of errors you'd make. It also allows you to stay in some sets longer without needing to always accessing the hub-set. Doing it the way I specified, you can DarkArts->Nuke->Cure, which is much faster and a very common occurrence.

The same goes with COR. I bet you still want to be shooting bullets at the same time as rolling. For that, you need a preshot and aftershot and WS. For COR, I'd make TP/WS sets universal through all sets.
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 Asura.Fondue
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By Asura.Fondue 2014-03-25 14:01:38  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Whm sub was never needed for Legion, if it was you had terrible support.

our corsairs were required to sub Mage because whm casting haste during fights killed people, did you even 18 kill mul?
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-03-25 14:06:43  
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
I'll give it a go. A lot of the things I've got set are so reflexive now though that change might be really hard to do.

Still sort of hung up on the G510 thing though. Simply can't manage to get binder to work correctly for me despite following the -- what seem to be -- fairly simple instructions. Maybe I'll give that another go today too.

I don't use any windower type assistance or plugins in using my G510 or G13. I use the software that came with the keyboard and use the Textblock option. I use Full keyboard mode in FFXI so a macro would look like this:

/ma Erase <t>(Press Enter)

If you play on Compact, I bet it would look like this:

(Space)/ma Erase <t>(Press Enter)

I would not recommend making macros for the G15 for anything you'd spam (like a WS or TP set). Some good spells to have are: Erase, Paraylna, Blindna, Silena, Stona, Viruna, (All SCH strategems), Meds: Remedy, Panaceas, Holy Waters, Echo Drops, Berserker's Torques. (Voidwatch items as well)
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-03-25 14:09:12  
Asura.Fondue said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Whm sub was never needed for Legion, if it was you had terrible support.
our corsairs were required to sub Mage because whm casting haste during fights killed people, did you even 18 kill mul?

By "18 kill" I'm not sure what you mean.

We certainly cleared Mul with 18 (or fewer) people.

I know we did have corsairs /whm in some instances. I just don't recall really doing it much myself. But again, I was frequently DD, not corsair.

In fact, depending on our numbers back then, the corsairs were frequently mules.

Edit: thinking on it, I guess I do remember a times having gone and hasted melee from time to time. I also remember grumbling about it, as it was frequently unnecessary in my estimation.
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-03-25 14:10:44  
Bismarck.Keityan said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
I'll give it a go. A lot of the things I've got set are so reflexive now though that change might be really hard to do. Still sort of hung up on the G510 thing though. Simply can't manage to get binder to work correctly for me despite following the -- what seem to be -- fairly simple instructions. Maybe I'll give that another go today too.
I don't use any windower type assistance or plugins in using my G510 or G13. I use the software that came with the keyboard and use the Textblock option. I use Full keyboard mode in FFXI so a macro would look like this: /ma Erase <t>(Press Enter) If you play on Compact, I bet it would look like this: (Space)/ma Erase <t>(Press Enter) I would not recommend making macros for the G15 for anything you'd spam (like a WS or TP set). Some good spells to have are: Erase, Paraylna, Blindna, Silena, Stona, Viruna, (All SCH strategems), Meds: Remedy, Panaceas, Holy Waters, Echo Drops, Berserker's Torques. (Voidwatch items as well)

Textblock...not familiar with that.

Disclaimer: Until the past month when I got my new PC, I was using the old software for the keyboard as well, and it never worked right w/ XI for me.
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-03-25 14:15:36  
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
By "18 kill" I'm not sure what you mean.

We certainly cleared Mul with 18 (or fewer) people.

I know we did have corsairs /whm in some instances. I just don't recall really doing it much myself. But again, I was frequently DD, not corsair.

In fact, depending on our numbers back then, the corsairs were frequently mules.

He means 18 bosses killed. Even then, it wasn't a big deal because:

A. If you did the PD strategy, you were PDed most of the time. Plenty of time to Haste.
B. If you did the RNG strategy, you had an auxillary mage somewhere in the RNG party that can haste the DD party.

Antiquated content to compare to anyhow =/. I'd definitely sub /WHM if you do Tree though. The extra Cursna can't hurt.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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user: Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-03-25 14:22:01  
Ah. No, we never go through quite that many. /shrug

Lots of part-time and/or older players with less playtime. Myself included at times. =\
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-03-25 14:39:19  
just want to say that windower shortcuts > all other methods of spellcasting etc.

//c3 nameshortcut
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