Test: Bees using Nether Blast.
Hagondes Sabots has avatar MAB +25 and I got +5 MAB by augmenting it.
No Feet gear = 2492 DMG constantly.
Convoker's = 2600,2600,2856,2600,2600.
Hagondes MAB +30 = 2728, 2728, 2728, 2728, 2728.
Turns out Hagondes Sabots can get around +25 pet MAB and probably will do more damage than Convoker's Pigaches +1 since convoker's NQ +5% would increase +108 dmg dealt against 236 (+30 MAB). Also I haven't tried Hagondes +1 augmentation.
Hope it helps building up your Avatar Magic Atack bonus set
Hagondes Sabots Vs. Convoker's Pigaches.
Hagondes sabots vs. Convoker's Pigaches.
Nossa, que augment de pobre...
You can achieve a much higher Pet MAB in addition to the +25 already on there. I'd stick with Hagondes for sure.
Relic feet look nice with the Magic Crit +9% but I'd think Hagondes still kills them
Relic feet look nice with the Magic Crit +9% but I'd think Hagondes still kills them
You need nearly a base of 700 MAB on the avatar (aka impossible) for Convoker's to equal Hagondes with a good augment. At that level, 50 more MAB would add just slightly over 6% damage (in the formula comparing 8.50/8.00 for MAB would be an increase of ~6%)
And yes, Hagondes beat Relic feet as well.
And yes, Hagondes beat Relic feet as well.
Which would be the best feet for Flaming Crush? I'm assuming either relic or AF.
Flaming Crush is a combo of Physical + Magical so just my two cents but I'd think you still want Hagondes + Pet MAB augs
I appreciate this tip. I didn't know this.
I've actually been going back and forth a lot between Hagondes Sabots (Avatar:MAB+20 augment) and Convoker's Pigaches +1 with Flaming Crush trying to figure out which is better. I do ADL runs a lot, so I get to use Flaming Crush on Dynamis Lord a lot.
What I've found is that the difference is negligible. My highest so far has been right around 35k with both pairs of boots, with averages right around 25-30k.
Note that this is with Nirvana, not Balsam Staff, in addition to other BP damage boosting items which should skew my tests against Convoker's Pigaches +1, so I'm kind of surprised they held up as well as they did. My theory is this: I believe I read somewhere once upon a time that the damage from the magic hit of Flaming Crush uses the damage from the physical hits (or maybe just the first physical hit) as the base magic damage. It's possible this leads to BP Damage+ stats being double-counted on the magic hit of Flaming Crush. For those of you using Balsam, I suspect Convoker's Pigaches +1 might be significantly better than Hagondes, as counter-intuitive as it may seem. Give them a try!
For reference, here's the build I use:
ItemSet 319492
What I've found is that the difference is negligible. My highest so far has been right around 35k with both pairs of boots, with averages right around 25-30k.
Note that this is with Nirvana, not Balsam Staff, in addition to other BP damage boosting items which should skew my tests against Convoker's Pigaches +1, so I'm kind of surprised they held up as well as they did. My theory is this: I believe I read somewhere once upon a time that the damage from the magic hit of Flaming Crush uses the damage from the physical hits (or maybe just the first physical hit) as the base magic damage. It's possible this leads to BP Damage+ stats being double-counted on the magic hit of Flaming Crush. For those of you using Balsam, I suspect Convoker's Pigaches +1 might be significantly better than Hagondes, as counter-intuitive as it may seem. Give them a try!
For reference, here's the build I use:
ItemSet 319492
Asura.Pergatory said: »
I've actually been going back and forth a lot between Hagondes Sabots (Avatar:MAB+20 augment) and Convoker's Pigaches +1 with Flaming Crush trying to figure out which is better. I do ADL runs a lot, so I get to use Flaming Crush on Dynamis Lord a lot.
What I've found is that the difference is negligible. My highest so far has been right around 35k with both pairs of boots, with averages right around 25-30k.
Note that this is with Nirvana, not Balsam Staff, in addition to other BP damage boosting items which should skew my tests against Convoker's Pigaches +1, so I'm kind of surprised they held up as well as they did. My theory is this: I believe I read somewhere once upon a time that the damage from the magic hit of Flaming Crush uses the damage from the physical hits (or maybe just the first physical hit) as the base magic damage. It's possible this leads to BP Damage+ stats being double-counted on the magic hit of Flaming Crush. For those of you using Balsam, I suspect Convoker's Pigaches +1 might be significantly better than Hagondes, as counter-intuitive as it may seem. Give them a try!
For reference, here's the build I use:
ItemSet 319492
What I've found is that the difference is negligible. My highest so far has been right around 35k with both pairs of boots, with averages right around 25-30k.
Note that this is with Nirvana, not Balsam Staff, in addition to other BP damage boosting items which should skew my tests against Convoker's Pigaches +1, so I'm kind of surprised they held up as well as they did. My theory is this: I believe I read somewhere once upon a time that the damage from the magic hit of Flaming Crush uses the damage from the physical hits (or maybe just the first physical hit) as the base magic damage. It's possible this leads to BP Damage+ stats being double-counted on the magic hit of Flaming Crush. For those of you using Balsam, I suspect Convoker's Pigaches +1 might be significantly better than Hagondes, as counter-intuitive as it may seem. Give them a try!
For reference, here's the build I use:
ItemSet 319492
Hillariously enough, this is my BP Set... cept for that god damn *** never dropping sack of ***earring.
I even have the ruby earring with the +5 Pet attack, but never seen the esper earring drop /tablefliprage
Yeah I have an LS mate who's in the same boat, that earring just doesn't seem to drop anymore. It's rare to see people with ACP earrings though, highfive!!
Speaking with Tachi on BG he said this is the set he would use for flaming crush. Obviously this is with a Nirvana since that's what he uses but replaced the staff to the more affordable one since not everyone has one. Would like to see the differences between the 2 sets since Pergatory you went the physical route and he went magical.
ItemSet 320486
All hagondos is MAB+25 ideally but was tested with I think 21-24.
ItemSet 320486
All hagondos is MAB+25 ideally but was tested with I think 21-24.
It'd be really hard to say for sure which is superior between the neck & waist pieces without proper testing, and even that would be difficult because of how little impact each piece on those slots is likely to have. Cape is a no-brainer I think, 7 Acc/M.Acc seems much better than 1 MAB. Tossing out Gifted Earring is also a no-brainer, at least for a skill earring if you don't have an ACP7 earring worth using.
As for hands/legs/feet, I think this is the meat of the difference. It comes down to BP Damage versus MAB. As I said earlier, I'm fairly certain (almost positive) that the damage from the magical hit is dependent on the physical damage dealt, and that the BP Damage +% stat is thus double-counted on the magic hit. It's also difficult to say how much of the damage from Flaming Crush comes from the physical hit or the magical hit, making testing even harder, so I don't think you'll ever have a definitive answer.
That said, if we look strictly at the magic piece of the equation you can get an idea of how it would work.
Let's take the Balsam Staff scenario since most people will be using that. Avatars also have a native MAB+40 so we need to account for that as well. If you add in the other pieces that are the same between the sets, you'll get 17 BP damage from body/ear, and 23 MAB from head. So this starts you out with 183 MAB and 17% BP Damage; both sets have these bonuses.
((100+183)/100)*1.17*1.17 (double-counting BP damage) = 3.873987 so that's the starting point for the comparison.
Now let's take my build. I add 16 BP Damage on top of this, giving a result of:
((100+183)/100)*1.33*1.33 = 5.005987
Now Tachi's build: At the peak, he adds another 100 MAB, giving the result of:
((100+283)/100)*1.17*1.17 = 5.242887
So strictly in terms of damage from the magic portion of the BP, the hands/legs/feet component of Tachi's build is probably very slightly superior. A hybrid between the two would add 50 MAB on feet, and 5 BP Damage each from hands/legs. That would look like:
((100+233)/100)*1.27*1.27 = 5.370957
That seems to be the sweet spot for Balsam users, but again we're ignoring the physical damage here aside from the benefit it provides to the magic hit via double-counting BP Damage bonus. That same BP damage bonus is also increasing the damage itself from physical hits whereas MAB does not, and we're ignoring that here.
Now for Nirvana users. My build:
((100+63)/100)*1.73*1.73 = 4.878427
Swap in Tachi's hands/legs/feet:
((100+163)/100)*1.57*1.57 = 6.482687
Hybrid:
((100+113)/100)*1.67*1.67 = 5.940357
These results are surprising to me because again, in my testing, I haven't noticed much difference between the hybrid build and my proposed build, but these numbers say the difference on the magic hit should be a full 21% higher with the Hagondes Sabots. What this tells me is that the magic hit doesn't make up the vast majority of the damage from the BP.
So in short, if you use a Nirvana, then it's possible that some of the augmented Hagondes pieces would be better than Spurrina Gages or Ngen Seraweels (but not definitive because again we're totally ignoring the physical side of the BP), but if you use a Balsam I'd wager they almost certainly are not. The exception being Hagondes Sabots, hard to beat them on paper and I'll probably swap back to them again shortly. (I'm still trying to get a decent Pet:MAB augment on my Hagondes Pants, and don't have anything on Cuffs, so I can't do much testing in that regard.)
As for hands/legs/feet, I think this is the meat of the difference. It comes down to BP Damage versus MAB. As I said earlier, I'm fairly certain (almost positive) that the damage from the magical hit is dependent on the physical damage dealt, and that the BP Damage +% stat is thus double-counted on the magic hit. It's also difficult to say how much of the damage from Flaming Crush comes from the physical hit or the magical hit, making testing even harder, so I don't think you'll ever have a definitive answer.
That said, if we look strictly at the magic piece of the equation you can get an idea of how it would work.
Let's take the Balsam Staff scenario since most people will be using that. Avatars also have a native MAB+40 so we need to account for that as well. If you add in the other pieces that are the same between the sets, you'll get 17 BP damage from body/ear, and 23 MAB from head. So this starts you out with 183 MAB and 17% BP Damage; both sets have these bonuses.
((100+183)/100)*1.17*1.17 (double-counting BP damage) = 3.873987 so that's the starting point for the comparison.
Now let's take my build. I add 16 BP Damage on top of this, giving a result of:
((100+183)/100)*1.33*1.33 = 5.005987
Now Tachi's build: At the peak, he adds another 100 MAB, giving the result of:
((100+283)/100)*1.17*1.17 = 5.242887
So strictly in terms of damage from the magic portion of the BP, the hands/legs/feet component of Tachi's build is probably very slightly superior. A hybrid between the two would add 50 MAB on feet, and 5 BP Damage each from hands/legs. That would look like:
((100+233)/100)*1.27*1.27 = 5.370957
That seems to be the sweet spot for Balsam users, but again we're ignoring the physical damage here aside from the benefit it provides to the magic hit via double-counting BP Damage bonus. That same BP damage bonus is also increasing the damage itself from physical hits whereas MAB does not, and we're ignoring that here.
Now for Nirvana users. My build:
((100+63)/100)*1.73*1.73 = 4.878427
Swap in Tachi's hands/legs/feet:
((100+163)/100)*1.57*1.57 = 6.482687
Hybrid:
((100+113)/100)*1.67*1.67 = 5.940357
These results are surprising to me because again, in my testing, I haven't noticed much difference between the hybrid build and my proposed build, but these numbers say the difference on the magic hit should be a full 21% higher with the Hagondes Sabots. What this tells me is that the magic hit doesn't make up the vast majority of the damage from the BP.
So in short, if you use a Nirvana, then it's possible that some of the augmented Hagondes pieces would be better than Spurrina Gages or Ngen Seraweels (but not definitive because again we're totally ignoring the physical side of the BP), but if you use a Balsam I'd wager they almost certainly are not. The exception being Hagondes Sabots, hard to beat them on paper and I'll probably swap back to them again shortly. (I'm still trying to get a decent Pet:MAB augment on my Hagondes Pants, and don't have anything on Cuffs, so I can't do much testing in that regard.)
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