IiPunch - Monk Guide

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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-10-09 15:25:46  
A parse will NEVER discern a difference below 5% in any meaningful manner.

If you think the sim is faulty, write a better one and open source it for review. If you think the spreadsheet is better, provide an argument for why it's better. A parse is only useful if you're under the impression some of the currently accepted formulas are wrong and you have the knowledge to narrow down which. If that's the case, I'm sure people of every job would appreciate the currently understood damage formulas being improved.
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By Anna Ruthven 2017-10-09 15:25:56  
You could just, you know, drop it.
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-10-09 15:29:06  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
A parse will NEVER discern a difference below 5% in any meaningful manner.

Oh, I completely agree. But a parse could show capped accuracy. We could agree on capped attack from the buffs used and the buffs left unused. I'm really just extending an olive branch to Austar, inviting an honest result from a proper set-up of his sim.
If you look at where the name-calling all originates, I consider myself the nice guy here.
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By Anna Ruthven 2017-10-09 15:44:36  
To explain since I have a few minutes. Someone used the N-word, that's what my comment was about. I'm not sure why we're pitting MNK against WAR in a MNK thread. I'd assume people getting tired of it is why the insults start flying.

I WANT people who know what they are talking about in this thread but the arguments get annoying for everyone, especially when someone just can't let one go.

On the N-word thing, I actually went easy because it was a fairly knowledgeable person who said it and while it wasn't a good thing to fling towards someone, I don't believe it was truly meant in a racist manner. Don't let that become a habit.

Additionally, I don't consider all that much to be permanent. If I remove someone from the thread, sometimes it's to give time to cool off, I'll let you back in in a bit.
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By Blazed1979 2017-10-09 15:52:07  
Blazed1979 said: »
awe - technically its on topic. People go on vacation between boosts.
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 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-10-09 15:54:52  
What is the average price now on this SU3 gear?
I wana get some and go play mnk again since this post keeps popping up.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2017-10-09 17:25:54  
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
What is the average price now on this SU3 gear?
I wana get some and go play mnk again since this post keeps popping up.

NQ cost is like ~25m 5/5

HQ would vary wildly, in the 800m~ range
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2017-10-09 18:12:18  
NQ set is no more than 30m combined for the 5 pieces, is 5 less TA, 10 less crit, 15 less subtle blow and 50 less M. Eva. The measurable DPS between them is not going to be a whole lot since the only important stats for damage are 5 TA/10 crit. The difference becomes even less when you realize you really only need the body for TP if you aren't going for the hybrid route. NQ Kendatsuba is still a massive cut above any other melee piece in the game in terms of magic evasion.

Ignore the autists who think you need 800m in gear to effectively gear MNK. They're just stirring up ***because they lack the ability to critically think.
 Asura.Stryger
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By Asura.Stryger 2017-10-12 11:17:49  
So anyone notice that Dragon Kick is apparently an 8 hit Ws yet? https://imgur.com/b3LwPay
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-10-12 11:20:13  
The mistake in the label was noted in the update that changed H2H WS descriptions.
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2017-10-19 01:22:48  
I FINALLY FIGURED OUT A USE FOR BOOST GUYS! WHILE YOU'RE TURNED AROUND WAITING FOR ONYCHOPHERA TO HURRY THE HECK UP AND CHANGE BACK TO FIRE!!!
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2017-10-20 14:04:48  
Snaps brought up an interesting point about MNK regarding zergs:

Lately we've been using Crystal Blessing + Warcry for anything that requires zerging (originally we just used Warcry, but now one of our mules is free to give SMN buffs) along with 4 rolls/5 songs/4 bubbles so we're pretty maxed out as far as buffs go, which brings me to my point.

Warcry/Crystal Blessing/Aeonic/Moonshade puts you at 2750 TP if you WS at 1000, and it is pretty easy to spill over with massive amounts of STP/Multi strikes, so to illustrate my point I'll just consider all WS to be performed at 1250 TP (3000 TP).

Raging Fists:
30 STR/30 DEX
9.0 ftp + 4 1.0 ftp hits = 13 ftp

Resolution:
85 STR
2.25 ftp * 5 hits = 11.25 ftp

After multi strikes (we'll define it as 2x DA to keep it constant) it becomes 15 ftp for RF vs 15.75 ftp for Resolution. The mods on Raging Fists aren't nearly as good but it gets the benenfit of having a 1 hit 9.0 FTP and MNK has access to a lot of good WSD equipment.

6 ammo, 5 head, 2 ear, 5 body, 10 hands, 10 back, 7 legs, 5 feet = 50 WSD.

Here are some other "high end WS" for comparison' sake:

Savage Blade:
50 STR/50 MND
13.75 ftp + 1.0 ftp + 2.0 ftp (2x multi strikes) = 16.75

Tachi Fudo:
80 STR
8.0 ftp + 1.0 ftp (1x multi strikes) = 9.0 ftp

Stardiver:
85 STR
1.75*4 ftp + 3.5 ftp (2x multi strikes) = 10.5 ftp

Rudra's Storm:
80 DEX
13 ftp + 1.0 ftp (1x multstrikes) = 14.0 ftp

As you can see, under fully buffed conditions, Raging Fists is actually pretty competitive, paired with MNKs high white damage and high defensive capabilities, I think they'd be able to do pretty well. Granted, under those conditions, probably any DD would do well but it goes to show that MNK isn't completely worthless.

edit:

I realize people will come to try and pick this post apart with minor details like HURR DURR RUDRA'S WILL TRIPLE ATTACK (I'm aware it's not likely to DA, but I specifically defined multi strikes as DA to illustrate a point) and I realize that ftp alone isn't a good indicator, like how Raging Fist has 13 ftp but really only 9 of it is subjected to WSD vs Savage's 16.75 and Rudra's 14.0, but I honestly think this is worth giving a try. We'll have 3 Godhands MNKs next Aeonic round and we plan on fighting Albumen with MNK MNK MNK WAR to see how it goes. We can kill it in about 2 min flat right now using a mix of SAM, WAR, RUN so I think if we can do it in ~2.5 min we'll consider it a success.
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-10-20 14:19:40  
I realize this wasn't meant to be exact, and I agree with the conclusion anyways, buuuuut I still feel compelled to point out some inaccuracies:

-For Resolution, 2.25 x 5 is not 11, but 11.25.

-For Stardiver, (1.75 x 4) +3.5 is not 9.0, but 10.5.

-It's also silly to not include Fotia when comparing Raging Fists to Resolution and Stardiver.
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2017-10-20 14:24:53  
Sorry, it was quick and dirty math, I've been gradually editing the post lul. I neglected to use Fotia because I didn't remember if the 0.1 ftp boost only applies to all hits if it's ftp transfer but I'm pretty sure it is. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't change things by much even across 7 hits when the ftp is so high, in the case of resolution it'd be 15.75 -> 17.15 = 8.8% marginal boost. The difference is a lot more pronounced at lower TP when the marginal gain is a lot higher.

I can do more accurate math when I get home from work to account for Fotia on all the ftp transfer ***, but just keep in mind that MNK has access to Moonbow Belt (+1) which is easily the best WS belt in the game, ftp transfer or not.
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