The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2017-12-08 16:14:56  
I'm fairly ignorant to the intricacies of WAR, but just brought it to 99 for lockstyle purposes and kinda feel like maybe making it a project. My only other 2-handers are RUN and SAM, so my notable WAR-usable toys include:

Weapons/grip:
- Montante+1
- Zulfiqar (somewhat decent augs, something like DMG+26 Acc/Atk+20ish, but would prob toss more stones at it)
- Raetic Algol NQ (but obviously gonna be some time until I have the JP to use on WAR)
- Tanmoyagi+1 (if sword WAR is still a thing ever)
- Utu Grip

Armor:
- Flamma+2 gear (head/feet +2 now for SAM, can make more +2s in the coming month)
- Sulevia +1 5/5, but can +2 a couple pieces after update
- Valorous set 4/5 (no body, still...) from SAM, includes some decent WSD/STR pieces (head/legs/hands), TP hands/feet.
- Can make a TP and a WS Ambuscade cape right away after December update
- Pretty much all of the relevant accessories aside from Regal Ring. (Niq Ring is also STILL eluding me but it has become an obsession and I'll get it eventually).
- Good all jobs defensive gear (all the typical accessories), UNM Faffhog Helm +1.

I don't have:
- Any WAR Escha abjuration armor. Probably have most of the abjurations stashed on a mule though, and could pick up NQ cursed items if any of the pieces are still particularly relevant (I'm not interested or rich enough to make WAR HQ abj pieces though).
- Any WAR JSE armor. We're talking never even did the AF quests, probably have NQ relic stashed on porter moogle, never got empy (though I think I have +1 kupons and +2 items to make pieces if there's something relevant).

So... what would be my top priorities for further gearing?
- AF+2/+3 feet seem like the highlight of the set - correct?
- Any must have Relic/Empy armor pieces for JA purposes?
- Considering what I do have, is it worth getting any Escha abjuration pieces?
- If I were to go for an RME weapon (no Chango any time soon, that would be a lower priority for me than several other Aeonic weapons), what's the general thinking these days? I dunno that I'd have much interest in doing more Mythic/Empy, but if Rag is worth it maybe I could work on another Relic in 2018...
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-12-08 16:37:15  
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
So... what would be my top priorities for further gearing?

Get JSE like now. WAR's offensive JA's are augmented by various Relic / AF / Empy gear with special attention to the Relic Head and Empy Body. Get Them Right Now.

Zulf will suffice as a Reso GS until you get enough accuracy to use Monte +1. Get the Aganoshe (sp) GAXE with some augments for doing SC's, unless you got a Chango stashed somewhere.

For gear, Valorous body with DA+5 is very good to pair with Sulva +2 hands in a TP set. Store TP on Odyssean legs + Valorous feet should work fine until you can get WAR AF +3 legs / feet.

For abjurations, Argosy is a solid Resolution / King's Justice HQ isn't even that expensive anymore. HQ Emicho has value for higher accuracy sets but with Flamma and Sulvie at +2 you can work around that.

Rag is highly overrated by people who don't understand what it's for. Monte +1 beats it and Zulf can equal it in Reso spams, where Rag shines is when you really need lots of accuracy. Bravura is a Hybrid DT weapon for kicking *** while not dieing. Conq and Ukon are both weaker then Monte +1 for spamming WS's and weaker then Chango for SC's, which is the entire point of GAXE. Don't bother making them if you don't already have them at 119.

WAR is a job that has access to a huge number of weapons and ways to make stuff dead, this is what separates it from jobs like DRK / SAM / DRG. As an example I have sets for the following

GS Reso Spam (Monte + / Zulf / Raetic / Ragnarok)
GAXE SC's (Chango)
GAXE Hybrid DT (Bravura)
Spear Stardiver / SC usage (Exalted)
Axe Fencer (Cloud Splitter)
Sword Fencer (Savage)
Sword DW (Vorpal, to *** with BLU's who think they are bad ***)

Then some funky stuff like Club (Blunt) and H2H (to *** with MNKs) builds.
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 Shiva.Eightball
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By Shiva.Eightball 2017-12-09 11:12:09  
along the same lines as newer war here, I noticed ambu backs for upheaval and ukko are just more DA and it seemed like somthing else like crit for ukko and WSD for upheaval would be better since we have like 60-70 DA in most WS sets already? haven't made an ambu WS back yet.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-12-09 12:06:40  
Shiva.Eightball said: »
along the same lines as newer war here, I noticed ambu backs for upheaval and ukko are just more DA and it seemed like somthing else like crit for ukko and WSD for upheaval would be better since we have like 60-70 DA in most WS sets already? haven't made an ambu WS back yet.

Upheaval gets two capes actually. First being WSD +10 VIT +30 for when your 2K or more TP, the other being DA +10 VIT +30 for when your not. Ukko's is Crit or WSD and STR +30, could use DA if you can't make many capes for it. UF is ***damage compared to the others so nothing will make it go much higher.

First two capes to be looking to make

STR +30 Atk/Acc +20 DA +10 (Reso / Multi-Attack WS's)
VIT +30 Atk/Acc +20 WSD +10 (Upheaval / Single Hit WS's)

Then worry about the specialized ones after.
 Asura.Fiasko
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By Asura.Fiasko 2017-12-09 12:14:07  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Shiva.Eightball said: »
along the same lines as newer war here, I noticed ambu backs for upheaval and ukko are just more DA and it seemed like somthing else like crit for ukko and WSD for upheaval would be better since we have like 60-70 DA in most WS sets already? haven't made an ambu WS back yet.

Upheaval gets two capes actually. First being WSD +10 VIT +30 for when your 2K or more TP, the other being DA +10 VIT +30 for when your not. Ukko's is Crit or WSD and STR +30, could use DA if you can't make many capes for it. UF is ***damage compared to the others so nothing will make it go much higher.

First two capes to be looking to make

STR +30 Atk/Acc +20 DA +10 (Reso / Multi-Attack WS's)
VIT +30 Atk/Acc +20 WSD +10 (Upheaval / Single Hit WS's)

Then worry about the specialized ones after.

Just to add on to this. A solid choice for players would be to make a 20DEX/30ACC/10DA TP cape after those two just to ease the accuracy requirements as you augment/upgrade armor.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-12-09 13:38:10  
Asura.Fiasko said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Shiva.Eightball said: »
along the same lines as newer war here, I noticed ambu backs for upheaval and ukko are just more DA and it seemed like somthing else like crit for ukko and WSD for upheaval would be better since we have like 60-70 DA in most WS sets already? haven't made an ambu WS back yet.

Upheaval gets two capes actually. First being WSD +10 VIT +30 for when your 2K or more TP, the other being DA +10 VIT +30 for when your not. Ukko's is Crit or WSD and STR +30, could use DA if you can't make many capes for it. UF is ***damage compared to the others so nothing will make it go much higher.

First two capes to be looking to make

STR +30 Atk/Acc +20 DA +10 (Reso / Multi-Attack WS's)
VIT +30 Atk/Acc +20 WSD +10 (Upheaval / Single Hit WS's)

Then worry about the specialized ones after.

Just to add on to this. A solid choice for players would be to make a 20DEX/30ACC/10DA TP cape after those two just to ease the accuracy requirements as you augment/upgrade armor.

Plus it's easy enough to change later once they get plenty of accuracy in their TP sets.
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By DaneBlood 2017-12-10 09:07:34  
Still better to get relic sword over getting emp gaxe ?
when taking it to 119 III/glow stage ?
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-12-10 09:27:49  
I'd recommend chango first.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-12-10 09:28:08  
DaneBlood said: »
Still better to get relic sword over getting emp gaxe ?
when taking it to 119 III/glow stage ?

Neither unless your finished with everything else.

Montante +1 > Ragnarok for Reso spam, which is the entire purpose of GS. Rag is only amazing when you really need the extra accuracy. Zulf can hit about the same DPS as Rag, just less accuracy and very dependent on augments. Chango is the best GAXE by a long shot.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-12-10 16:36:26  
Siren.Sandraa said: »
How Far is Chango vs Mont+1&Ragnarok? Scenario Zergs with super buffs

Don't have the math on hand but the answer was "quite a bit". Upheaval is a good WS but it's not Resolution and WAR's offensive JA/JT really make Resolution shine in spamming. Chango is monstrous whenever you can link SC's, especially because King's Justice is a pretty good WS and links with Upheaval to make light.
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By Archaide 2017-12-11 00:16:02  
Hey guys I just got my Chango last night and looking to improve my KJ and Upheaval WS sets. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Should I be using WSD on cape for both now that I have Chango or no? And should I use Oneiros Pebble or Knobkierrie for Upheaval?
Code
sets.precast.WS['Kings Justice'] = {
    ammo="Seeth. Bomblet +1",
    head={ name="Argosy Celata +1", augments={'STR+12','DEX+12','Attack+20',}},
    body={ name="Argosy Hauberk +1", augments={'STR+12','DEX+12','Attack+20',}},
    hands={ name="Argosy Mufflers +1", augments={'STR+20','"Dbl.Atk."+3','Haste+3%',}},
    legs={ name="Argosy Breeches +1", augments={'STR+12','Attack+25','"Store TP"+6',}},
    feet="Pumm. Calligae +3",
    neck="Caro Necklace",
    waist="Metalsinger Belt",
    left_ear="Zwazo Earring +1",   (Moonshade when below 2250 TP)
    right_ear="Brutal Earring",
    left_ring="Regal Ring",
    right_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
    back={ name="Cichol's Mantle", augments={'STR+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','STR+10','"Dbl.Atk."+10',}},}

sets.precast.WS['Upheaval'] = {
    ammo="Oneiros Pebble",
    head="Sulevia's Mask +2",
    body="Pumm. Lorica +3",
    hands="Sulev. Gauntlets +2",
    legs="Sulev. Cuisses +2",
    feet="Pumm. Calligae +3",
    neck="Fotia Gorget",
    waist="Ioskeha Belt",
    left_ear="Moonshade Earring",  
    right_ear="Brutal Earring",
    left_ring="Regal Ring",
    right_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
    back={ name="Cichol's Mantle", augments={'VIT+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','VIT+10','"Dbl.Atk."+10',}},}
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By Pankas 2017-12-13 10:44:07  
Archaide said: »
Hey guys I just got my Chango last night and looking to improve my KJ and Upheaval WS sets. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Should I be using WSD on cape for both now that I have Chango or no? And should I use Oneiros Pebble or Knobkierrie for Upheaval?
Code
sets.precast.WS['Kings Justice'] = {
    ammo="Seeth. Bomblet +1",
    head={ name="Argosy Celata +1", augments={'STR+12','DEX+12','Attack+20',}},
    body={ name="Argosy Hauberk +1", augments={'STR+12','DEX+12','Attack+20',}},
    hands={ name="Argosy Mufflers +1", augments={'STR+20','"Dbl.Atk."+3','Haste+3%',}},
    legs={ name="Argosy Breeches +1", augments={'STR+12','Attack+25','"Store TP"+6',}},
    feet="Pumm. Calligae +3",
    neck="Caro Necklace",
    waist="Metalsinger Belt",
    left_ear="Zwazo Earring +1",   (Moonshade when below 2250 TP)
    right_ear="Brutal Earring",
    left_ring="Regal Ring",
    right_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
    back={ name="Cichol's Mantle", augments={'STR+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','STR+10','"Dbl.Atk."+10',}},}

sets.precast.WS['Upheaval'] = {
    ammo="Oneiros Pebble",
    head="Sulevia's Mask +2",
    body="Pumm. Lorica +3",
    hands="Sulev. Gauntlets +2",
    legs="Sulev. Cuisses +2",
    feet="Pumm. Calligae +3",
    neck="Fotia Gorget",
    waist="Ioskeha Belt",
    left_ear="Moonshade Earring",  
    right_ear="Brutal Earring",
    left_ring="Regal Ring",
    right_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
    back={ name="Cichol's Mantle", augments={'VIT+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','VIT+10','"Dbl.Atk."+10',}},}

First of all suggest to use Fotia neck and belt for both sets. As i don't have regal ring, i use flama+2 head/feet and ring.

My question would be where does combatant's neck stand in TP sts? What would be better?
 Lakshmi.Lenus
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By Lakshmi.Lenus 2017-12-14 16:44:22  
Just came back to the game recently and started to focus on warrior. Whats the difference between using 2 lugra's for upheaval at night vs one lugra and moonshade? Assuming tp isn't near 3k? And do people still reso at 2k tp? Cause I'm not getting the results I'd like for it on rag compared to upheaval at 1k with chango, and yeah the tp split between the two can be a huge difference. Reso at 1k is kinda underwhelming for me atm lol D:
 Lakshmi.Lenus
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By Lakshmi.Lenus 2017-12-17 03:34:46  
Jeez, do people only reply to these job threads if there's drama going on?
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-12-17 03:37:57  
lugra/moonshade

chango outside of guaranteed attack capped with MS situations (and even then, maybe not), no you don't hold to 2K for reso
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 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2017-12-18 00:14:51  
Sorry, Lenus I do not normally look here too much anymore as my choices vary greatly from others. Lugra/moonshade is best at night when under 2250 tp (with WC and Savagery, 2750 without), moonshade is pretty major for reso and just about every ws. I do not intentionally hold tp for reso, however, tp overflow is welcomed bc of how the ftp carries across all of reso's hits. Personal experience I love my Rag and get good results with it. Id look into gear and acc and adjust if need be if you still don't like it try another GS. I might try getting Raetic in the future but atm I struggle with having the urge to keep playing at times lol. Wish I had chango to answer more but atm I love my Bravura, Ukon, and Rag.
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 Lakshmi.Lenus
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By Lakshmi.Lenus 2017-12-18 02:29:48  
Thanks alot. After I AG'd Rag a few months before I stopped playing, I never really had a chance to try it out in high level, so I'm just judging based off T1-T3 enemies. Since I'm the one that owns the idris, I don't really get to try high buff crap out when im alone D:
 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2017-12-18 10:08:00  
Lenus np at all, I would be happy to offer any assistance I can if you would like, although there is a wealth of info in this thread too. I used Rag last night on Kirin/Kouryu with a group I normally don't run with, was helping a friend get his clear, so didn't have all the buffs id get with my ls, but still was averaging 50k Reso's (spiked to 60k for 1 or 2 this was under MS mind you without MS I still do 20-30k normally) I am curious to maybe get Raetic or Motente +1 and test those out too. Basically, all I am saying is don't give up, if you have AG Rag it works wonders once you dive into it, all the sudden it's like a lightbulb turned on and it all makes sense.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-12-18 12:26:53  
Lakshmi.Lenus said: »
Jeez, do people only reply to these job threads if there's drama going on?

Most of your questions had been answered previously.

Only idiots deliberately held TP for Resolution, while it's TP scaling is almost Linear, things like Moonshade / Fotia make spaming at 1K more total damage then holding TP. If your Reso's are low damage then look at Attack / Accuracy and then at STR / Multi-Attack. As for Ragnarok, it's only best when you need the accuracy. Montante +1 beats it and Zulfiqar ties with good augs and can beat it with great augments.
 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2017-12-18 13:21:15  
Does Flamma set bonus only work to 5 pieces? Getting +32 set bonus with 5 and 6 pieces.
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By Justuas 2017-12-18 15:21:27  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Lakshmi.Lenus said: »
Jeez, do people only reply to these job threads if there's drama going on?

Most of your questions had been answered previously.
Ain't nobody got the time to read 99 pages to find the answer.
 Cerberus.Mrkillface
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By Cerberus.Mrkillface 2017-12-18 17:48:37  
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
Lenus np at all, I would be happy to offer any assistance I can if you would like, although there is a wealth of info in this thread too. I used Rag last night on Kirin/Kouryu with a group I normally don't run with, was helping a friend get his clear, so didn't have all the buffs id get with my ls, but still was averaging 50k Reso's (spiked to 60k for 1 or 2 this was under MS mind you without MS I still do 20-30k normally) I am curious to maybe get Raetic or Motente +1 and test those out too. Basically, all I am saying is don't give up, if you have AG Rag it works wonders once you dive into it, all the sudden it's like a lightbulb turned on and it all makes sense.

I did a couple Kin this week using Raetic Algol just to try it out. I didn't get any refresh buffs other than the goofy brd occasionally hitting me with ballad by accident. I don't hang onto parses for stuff like that because ***is just too situational to make sense of (Different buffers, status effects, tank dies and someone has to turtle up, etc.), but it felt like it was at least as good as my Rag.

TBH I pretty much have Rag so that I can say I have Rag when people ask if I have it as a condition to coming on WAR. Nobody notices when I don't use it and based on my completely unscientific observations, it's just as good if not better.
 Lakshmi.Lenus
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By Lakshmi.Lenus 2017-12-19 01:33:07  
Pretty hard to try and dig through when the last time I looked on a job thread, there was alot of ***posting and *** swinging going on for multiple pages so I'd rather just ask since I know most of you are always active on these forums anyways. About the tp holding, I remember some of you were religious abaout using Reso at 1500 tp so I had to run that back again cause I haven't played for months. But thanks for the replies.

About flamma set bonuses, you can use two pieces to still gain bonuses without having to wear the whole set, so you can use Flamma head and ring for the 8STR/DEX/VIT. Not sure if thats what you meant to ask but yeah.
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-12-19 02:10:08  
The number people were looking at was as close to 1750 without going over, because fTP more than doubles going from 1000 -> 2000. Like, 8% stronger than just using two 1000 TP resolutions. Not accounting for savagery, which reduces that advantage substantially.

And with overflow being such a common occurrence, chances are it's a wash at best and a loss otherwise.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-12-19 02:54:12  
Quote:
The number people were looking at was as close to 1750 without going over, because fTP more than doubles going from 1000 -> 2000. Like, 8% stronger than just using two 1000 TP resolutions.

that's not true
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-12-19 06:23:05  
Lakshmi.Lenus said: »
About the tp holding, I remember some of you were religious abaout using Reso at 1500 tp so I had to run that back again cause I haven't played for months.

It was a case of Big Number Syndrome (BNS), they were eyeballing their damage and liked their WS's with bigger numbers even if it was a slight overall DPS loss. Things like moonshade and fotia are only applied once and have the same static effect regardless. Of course your going to get TP overflow, especially with a high Multi-Attack Monte+1 build, but that's incidental overflow as a result of a MA on the last attack round, your still not trying to sit on TP.

Ok here is how it works out, I used my Monte +1 as an example.

475 Delay and *** tons of Multi-Attack

256+448+100 = 220/1024 = 0.2148 * 475 = 102.05 actual delay

5-hit without SAM's roll

120 + ((4/2.12) * 102.05)
120 + 192.54 = 312.54 Average Cycle

4-hit with SAM's roll

120 + ((3/2.12) * 102.05)
120 + 144.41 = 264.41 Average Cycle

Resolution
0.71875 ~ 1.5

Fotia Increase
+(200/1024) = 0.1953125

+250 Moonshade Increase
+250 = 0.1953125

Assuming 6-hit cause we're WAR's

1000TP (1250TP) Resolution
1.109375 * 6 = 6.65625

1750TP (2000TP) Resolution
1.695312 * 6 = 10.17187

It's 52% stronger and the reason it looks bigger.

Now using the exact same sets lets add the 3 extra attack rounds required to go from 1000 to 1750

120 + ((6/2.12) * 102.05)
120 + 288.82 = 408.82 Average Cycle

54.61% slower for a 52.81% bigger WS.

And this doesn't take into account stuff like Retaliation and the fact that TP overflow from MA on last attack round is going to happen more often then not and favors the first method.
 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2017-12-19 08:05:48  
Cerberus.Mrkillface said: »
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
Lenus np at all, I would be happy to offer any assistance I can if you would like, although there is a wealth of info in this thread too. I used Rag last night on Kirin/Kouryu with a group I normally don't run with, was helping a friend get his clear, so didn't have all the buffs id get with my ls, but still was averaging 50k Reso's (spiked to 60k for 1 or 2 this was under MS mind you without MS I still do 20-30k normally) I am curious to maybe get Raetic or Motente +1 and test those out too. Basically, all I am saying is don't give up, if you have AG Rag it works wonders once you dive into it, all the sudden it's like a lightbulb turned on and it all makes sense.

I did a couple Kin this week using Raetic Algol just to try it out. I didn't get any refresh buffs other than the goofy brd occasionally hitting me with ballad by accident. I don't hang onto parses for stuff like that because ***is just too situational to make sense of (Different buffers, status effects, tank dies and someone has to turtle up, etc.), but it felt like it was at least as good as my Rag.

TBH I pretty much have Rag so that I can say I have Rag when people ask if I have it as a condition to coming on WAR. Nobody notices when I don't use it and based on my completely unscientific observations, it's just as good if not better.
Fair enough LOL. I enjoy my Rag but it was my first relic ever so it is special to me I will be trying Raetic when I find a crafter on Sylph, it seems just eyeballing it will be very nice. Also about to look into Montente +1 a bit more too, I like to have my options like all good wars should :)
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