The Beast Within -- A Guide To Blue Mage

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The Beast Within -- A Guide to Blue Mage
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By 2016-09-10 10:24:21
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 Odin.Slore
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By Odin.Slore 2016-09-10 10:53:37  
As has been said unless a:) you have a perfect colada or b.) you really accuracy starved (which should not be the case anymore) almace/sequence is gonna be you best bet. I mainhand almace and offhand sequence as well. never had a problem with acc.
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By Ragnarok.Tdizzle 2016-09-10 16:51:40  
intrloper said: »
Asura.Carrotchan said: »
Ragnarok.Tdizzle said: »
I'm with the other poster. If you have a Tizona or Almace (I happen to have almace), would sequence offer substantial upgrade if primarly using it offhand over colada?

The dps spreadsheet seems to calculate a bit more dps than my not dream augmented colada. Obviously, I'm not going to main hand it over Almace in almost any situation, but...

offhand: Colada vs Sequence ??

Spicyryan said:
Without playing around with the spreadsheet I am going to assume it is not a significant increase in DPS over a good/really Colada.
IIRC, a perfect Colada is better. That obviously doesn't exist, and personally I would rather make an Aeonic than a Colada. So if you are looking for that "substantial" upgrade, offhanding a Sequence is not the one you are looking for. I mean you already made Almace. Your jumps are now relegated to HQ abj sets and minor upgrades here and there now.

However, the prowess of the Sequence in the offhand is easy to understand. As I just said above, acc capped? Sequence. Not capped? Colada.

Was looking through posts and wanted to see if I could get clarification if possible. I just finished Almace and currently using Almace/Seq, if I wanted to use Colada in the offhand what would minimum augments need to be to make that a better option?

Currently I am DMG+13 DEX+14 ACC+20 ATT+4

I want to note that personally I dont want to use Colada ever again if I dont need to... However I also dont want to gimp myself out of laziness to poor reasoning.

EDIT:
New question, this is kinda laziness but looking at dream sets and ATT capped VS uncapped. I never really paid much attention to when attack might or might not be capped I know for anything pre SOA attack should always be capped?(might be wrong even now)

So the question is if someone wanted to only really worry about mid/high tier acc swaps, would it be best to assume att is capped or uncapped in anything current? Such as Ambuscade, ecsha, etc.

Thanks again.

It looks like unless your colada is perfect, sequence is probably the best bet. Maybe on low tier stuff colada may be better if you had more attack or it had a lot of double attack. The thing I was thinking about was that the skill alone on sequence gives it around a 20acc/attk advantage, but that only applies to offhand. So adding that to colada bumps your offhand up to equal to sequence but also adds benefits to your mainhand, so there's that anything less and sequence is giving you more offhand damage but no nifty stats other than store tp that transfer to your main and ws (although store tp doesn't actually suck as we all know)

As far as the attack capped deal, I believe it's actually really high to cap attack, and you're not capping it on much content of any meaning. Even Delve and stuff like that, attack is going to help. But once again, for stuff that means much you'll probably have a geo helping you out there, but if not, it's quite significant if you can stack enough up there. We're just more often worried about capping acc first because attack is just ridiculous to cap on anything that you've got acc concerns on (looking at you soverign behemoth and the like).

Edit: Just messing around with the dps spreadsheet, capped attk situations, sequence provides almost around 2% more dps than my okish colada (dmg 16, acc 10, attk 17, str 1, crit hit rate 2%) but less ws dmg.

I think that's the store tp doing work there as it's almost half an attack round per tp in my current setup.

Similar story in significantly undercapped attack situations with sequence having a slightly bigger gap in dps while still having less ws dmg.

Long story short, if you have a sequence already and dont have a great colada, you're not losing out. But also, you're not exactly leaps and bounds ahead of a 'good' colada either. At this point in gearing we can only expect small incremintal gains anyway.

The biggest jump you'll see is through HQ abjuration gear, far greater than a decent colada vs sequence. I think I eyeballed changing out my alamace to tamogay+1 and swapping in hq head/body and that was about the same dmg, if not more...
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By Asura.Carrotchan 2016-09-10 17:49:50  
intrloper said: »
I want to note that personally I dont want to use Colada ever again if I dont need to

Spicyryan said:
Even with Tizona Almace Sequence you still can make use of an offhand Colada at times. It doesn't go away.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-09-21 15:43:49  
This gives 557 blue magic skill and will floor the recast on Occultation using just Fast Cast 0 + 2 and capped magic haste. It's also slightly overcapped on Fast Cast (you can get away with 2 less) due to truncation although I haven't actually tested it.

ItemSet 346424
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-09-21 16:05:49  
I'm also wondering if there are any other spells that you would want to gear blue magic skill for. The only one I can think of is magic barrier. This set would also cap the recast on that. You could even go down to Fast Cast +19 in gear but I don't think it's worth optimizing to that level for some additional magic shield.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-09-21 21:13:50  
I forgot about Stikini Rings in my last two posts. You can actually get 552 blue magic skill and 29 fast cast without the use of an ear slot if you get two of them and the ambuscade cape. That seems more expensive though so I don't recommend it as the set I posted can work using a capped Herculean Helm and Etiolation Ring (no HQ gear). You can actually get 600 skill without weapons using two Stikini Rings +1 or one and the adoulin ring but I don't recommend it. Your recast will be something like 21 seconds instead of 15.
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By Asura.Carrotchan 2016-09-22 02:07:05  
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
This gives 557 blue magic skill and will floor the recast on Occultation using just Fast Cast 0 + 2 and capped magic haste. It's also slightly overcapped on Fast Cast (you can get away with 2 less) due to truncation although I haven't actually tested it.

Spicy.Nutz said:
What equation are you using for this?
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-09-22 02:48:41  
Asura.Carrotchan said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
This gives 557 blue magic skill and will floor the recast on Occultation using just Fast Cast 0 + 2 and capped magic haste. It's also slightly overcapped on Fast Cast (you can get away with 2 less) due to truncation although I haven't actually tested it.

Spicy.Nutz said:
What equation are you using for this?

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Spell_Recast
https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/108196-Random-Facts-Thread-Magic/page5

The last few posts suggest that Hashi. Bazu. +1 are added to the Fast Cast term.

Floored occultation = floor(76 * .2) = floor(15.2) = 15

For the above (with only Erratic Flutter)

recast = floor((76*(1 - .25 - .4375))*((100 - floor((15 + 25)/2) - 14)/100)) = floor(15.675) = 15

Using two less fast cast

recast = floor((76*(1 - .25 - .4375))*((100 - floor((15 + 23)/2) - 14)/100)) = floor(15.9125) = 15
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By Quetzalcoatl.Excalin 2016-09-24 22:06:03  
Anyone have any experience with Magic Evasion sets on Blu? Trying to put together some to try to avoid status alignments.

Was thinking something like this:

ItemSet 346512

Telchine Magic Evasion +25 Int/Mnd +10

probably replace the cape with an Ambush one with 30 M Eva and 20 Mnd...might as well make it my FC cape.

Select pieces can be swapped in for specific status effects.
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By Asura.Carrotchan 2016-09-25 14:31:38  
Quetzalcoatl.Excalin said: »
Anyone have any experience with Magic Evasion sets on Blu? Trying to put together some to try to avoid status alignments.

Was thinking something like this:

ItemSet 346512

Telchine Magic Evasion +25 Int/Mnd +10

probably replace the cape with an Ambush one with 30 M Eva and 20 Mnd...might as well make it my FC cape.

Select pieces can be swapped in for specific status effects.

Spicy said:
The problem with a lot of these telchine pieces is they need to get good magic evasion. I stopped caring about trying to augment it with magic evasion as it is a rare augment. It's really ridiculous. I mean if you want normal evasion then you are set, but magic evasion? Nah, come back with dozens more stones for a subpar value.

That being said I plan on making the Rosemerta int/magic evasion/enmity +10 as my next ambuscade cape. I find the magic evasion set to be the most useful set to use if you have a vex or attunement going for magic in general. Even without bubbles I use it regularly to avoid ailments.

There are various rings and other pieces you can use to avoid specific ailments, and don't forget elemental resistance pieces in the neck and waist especially. For my preferred general magic evasion set given what I just said:

ItemSet 346525

Getting one telchine piece made though with magic evasion in the legs slot would be ideal for also putting dual wield on. This would likely be a reasonable compromise for reward vs time and effort.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Excalin 2016-09-25 17:48:07  
Yeah i have been doing a lot of reading and really upped my understanding of how M Eva works since I posted.

I was talking to someone in my Linkshell earlier and he pointed out the neck and belt so those are on my list now. There are a bunch of rare rings on the AH that are very good with +20 element and then specific resistances on top of it that are on my list.

I really hate the items that say "enhances" with no metric to tell you if it is worth the time. I really wish I knew the value of Hearty Earring. I assume it is either +5 or +10 by the comments I read. Doesn't seem like it is really worth using over the Flashward.

I've been told by a Japanese player I do ambush with that they are supposed to have all job capes coming out at some point ...was kind of waiting on that before making one, but that said I was thinking MND over INT. Most of the status effects I want to avoid are white magic. In the long run ill probably make one for each and the second one might be my Enmity cape.

I will probably start with my Amalric pieces until I can replace it with the Telchine. Getting the M Eva and the Mnd/Int augs will be a pain, but I am fine with that. I think the first piece I am going to do will be Feet. Last piece will probably be Head and Hands since I put Int on those and MP on the Amaleric Body and Legs.
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By Asura.Carrotchan 2016-09-25 18:04:15  
Quetzalcoatl.Excalin said: »
Yeah i have been doing a lot of reading and really upped my understanding of how M Eva works since I posted.

I was talking to someone in my Linkshell earlier and he pointed out the neck and belt so those are on my list now. There are a bunch of rare rings on the AH that are very good with +20 element and then specific resistances on top of it that are on my list.

I really hate the items that say "enhances" with no metric to tell you if it is worth the time. I really wish I knew the value of Hearty Earring. I assume it is either +5 or +10 by the comments I read. Doesn't seem like it is really worth using over the Flashward.

I've been told by a Japanese player I do ambush with that they are supposed to have all job capes coming out at some point ...was kind of waiting on that before making one, but that said I was thinking MND over INT. Most of the status effects I want to avoid are white magic. In the long run ill probably make one for each and the second one might be my Enmity cape.

I will probably start with my Amalric pieces until I can replace it with the Telchine. Getting the M Eva and the Mnd/Int augs will be a pain, but I am fine with that. I think the first piece I am going to do will be Feet. Last piece will probably be Head and Hands since I put Int on those and MP on the Amaleric Body and Legs.

Spicypeppers said:
Perhaps I will learn something myself, but

AFAIK INT is general magic evasion as well. While a targets MND plays into white magic based spells. I don't think there is a reason to shun the general magic evasion from INT in favor of MND.

AFAIK the hearty earring is a +5% resistance to all status ailments and this matters more than magic evasion, especially just +8.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Excalin 2016-09-25 18:14:46  
Spicypeppers said:
Perhaps I will learn something myself, but

AFAIK INT is general magic evasion as well. While a targets MND plays into white magic based spells. I don't think there is a reason to shun the general magic evasion from INT in favor of MND.

AFAIK the hearty earring is a +5% resistance to all status ailments and this matters more than magic evasion, especially just +8.

If I understand M Eva right below 50% resist rate 2 M Eva = 1%. Above 50% 1 M Eva = 1%. So if the earring is 5% it is a question of below or above that 50% threshold. if it is below than it is resist +10 aka 10 M Eva for Status only. if it is above than it is only +5. so either it is barely better (1% resist rate) or significantly worse (3% resist rate).

Yeah MND is white Magic Evasion and INT is Black Magic Evasion. Telchine can be augmented with not only M Eva +25 but MND/INT +10 as well. It will just cost more money to make a better Black Magic Evasion set with Telchine than White Magic, but nothing is neglected.
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By Sylph.Oraen 2016-09-25 18:48:24  
The dual augments on Telchine have a lower cap, in this case 7/7 for attributes. Still great, but not as extreme.
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By Asura.Carrotchan 2016-09-25 19:24:27  
Quetzalcoatl.Excalin said: »
Spicypeppers said:
Perhaps I will learn something myself, but

AFAIK INT is general magic evasion as well. While a targets MND plays into white magic based spells. I don't think there is a reason to shun the general magic evasion from INT in favor of MND.

AFAIK the hearty earring is a +5% resistance to all status ailments and this matters more than magic evasion, especially just +8.

If I understand M Eva right below 50% resist rate 2 M Eva = 1%. Above 50% 1 M Eva = 1%. So if the earring is 5% it is a question of below or above that 50% threshold. if it is below than it is resist +10 aka 10 M Eva for Status only. if it is above than it is only +5. so either it is barely better (1% resist rate) or significantly worse (3% resist rate).

Yeah MND is white Magic Evasion and INT is Black Magic Evasion. Telchine can be augmented with not only M Eva +25 but MND/INT +10 as well. It will just cost more money to make a better Black Magic Evasion set with Telchine than White Magic, but nothing is neglected.

Spicy said:
I would like input from others as to the notion that INT is for black magic evasion only.

Also for the notion that resist x ailment +% is really just +x magic evasion.

I get the feeling neither is the case, but I assume we don't have proper testing for sources one way or the other on either. Then again we could, and I hope there are.
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By Sylph.Traxus 2016-09-25 20:04:44  
Every resist status+ gear I've ever used is job trait (as in a separate check with a flat % chance, resist! message, nothing to do with magic evasion). Bar-status spells are the only thing that I'm aware of that seem to function as meva for specific ailments.

For int/mnd/etc on magic evasion, it should depend on whatever dstat the spell or TP move uses. Int for black magic (probably ninjutsu?), mnd for white magic, chr for songs, etc. For monster TP moves it's impossible to say without testing each one, I wouldn't be surprised if most don't even have a dstat.
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By Asura.Carrotchan 2016-09-25 20:19:43  
Sylph.Traxus said: »
Every resist status+ gear I've ever used is job trait (as in a separate check with a flat % chance, resist! message, nothing to do with magic evasion). Bar-status spells are the only thing that I'm aware of that seem to function as meva for specific ailments.

For int/mnd/etc on magic evasion, it should depend on whatever dstat the spell or TP move uses. Int for black magic (probably ninjutsu?), mnd for white magic, chr for songs, etc. For monster TP moves it's impossible to say without testing each one, I wouldn't be surprised if most don't even have a dstat.

Spicy.Trombone said:
I figured. I just don't like to state that without input from others.

So, does int help with magic evasion on mnd based spells? For some reason from the RUN thread I was under the impression it was general magic evasion much like agi is evasion.
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By Sylph.Traxus 2016-09-25 21:11:08  
AFAIK white magic/magic hammer/mind blast are just mnd vs mnd, but I can't recall any specific testing to rule out an effect of int on magic evasion. IIRC people did test the opposite back in the day thou (mnd vs black magic), and it didn't do anything.

For what it's worth, ranged elemental WS like leaden salute/wildfire/etc use player agi vs target int (for damage at least), so there is precedence for int being used as a fallback magic defensive stat, and differing stats being used on the same attack. Could just be a balance thing for players thou, IE: a high int mob would be more evasive/take less damage vs elemental damage from both black magic and those elemental WS, and rng|cor wouldn't have to worry about int+ gears.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Excalin 2016-09-25 21:21:12  
@Traxus So if an item says resist <insert status effect here> then its a separate roll from M Eva? Kind of leads me to more question about that kind of gear and its ability to stack if that is the case.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2016-09-25 21:29:49  
"Resist <Status Ailment>" +x gear basically functions the same way as the traits, yes. You have a normal meva vs macc check and a straight % chance to resist from traits/specific gear stats check which presumably function independently from one another based on some JP testing I saw a while back. Very difficult thing to test, but it's easy to detect which kind of proc you get: a normal resist will merely read that you have resisted the effect, but a resist trait proc will always begin with "Resist!".

A T5 resist trait gives a 30% chance to resist that ailment. Most jobs that get them naturally (RDM, BRD, WAR, etc.) get T5 in the 80s.
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By Afania 2016-09-25 21:43:42  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
"Resist <Status Ailment>" +x gear basically functions the same way as the traits, yes. You have a normal meva vs macc check and a straight % chance to resist from traits/specific gear stats check which presumably function independently from one another based on some JP testing I saw a while back. Very difficult thing to test, but it's easy to detect which kind of proc you get: a normal resist will merely read that you have resisted the effect, but a resist trait proc will always begin with "Resist!".

A T5 resist trait gives a 30% chance to resist that ailment. Most jobs that get them naturally (RDM, BRD, WAR, etc.) get T5 in the 80s.

Somewhat irrelevant to blu but still relevant to this discussion, does that mean RUN AF1 legs are better option than AF3 legs for status resist build, despite AF3 legs has way more meva?
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By Asura.Azagarth 2016-09-25 22:07:43  
I have herc hands with 30 acc 4 TA aug, was told I need to swap them out with adhemar. I dont get how adhemar would beat them, anyone?
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By Quetzalcoatl.Excalin 2016-09-25 22:10:38  
These resist sets are going to get colorful pretty quick I guess

So here is a question. Does Death count as a Status for Heartly Earring? or would it be straight M Eva + Death Resist?
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By Sylph.Oraen 2016-09-25 22:23:36  
Asura.Azagarth said: »
I have herc hands with 30 acc 4 TA aug, was told I need to swap them out with adhemar. I dont get how adhemar would beat them, anyone?

It's going to depend on your overall STP value and the weapons that you're using. Generally, Adhemar hands are inferior to Herculean due to our ridiculous STP values in comparison to other 1hand DDs. The HQ hands, however, are generally superior as they have a smaller stat sacrifice and allow you to drop some STP from other slots.

The exact values you want to aim for are going to vary quite significantly from weapon to weapon. For instance, Almace/Sequence has a sweet spot of 34 gear STP, whereas Tizona/Almace gets a big damage boost from 50 gear STP. It's all a balancing act for your offensive stats.
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By Asura.Azagarth 2016-09-25 22:43:48  
and tan/colada? or soon to be sequence/colada?
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2016-09-25 22:48:20  
Afania said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
"Resist <Status Ailment>" +x gear basically functions the same way as the traits, yes. You have a normal meva vs macc check and a straight % chance to resist from traits/specific gear stats check which presumably function independently from one another based on some JP testing I saw a while back. Very difficult thing to test, but it's easy to detect which kind of proc you get: a normal resist will merely read that you have resisted the effect, but a resist trait proc will always begin with "Resist!".

A T5 resist trait gives a 30% chance to resist that ailment. Most jobs that get them naturally (RDM, BRD, WAR, etc.) get T5 in the 80s.

Somewhat irrelevant to blu but still relevant to this discussion, does that mean RUN AF1 legs are better option than AF3 legs for status resist build, despite AF3 legs has way more meva?

99% sure that AF1 legs will always be better for a status resistance set yes, but emp ones are still best all-purpose magic resistance legs0

Quetzalcoatl.Excalin said: »
These resist sets are going to get colorful pretty quick I guess

So here is a question. Does Death count as a Status for Heartly Earring? or would it be straight M Eva + Death Resist?

It should. There are also other obscurities, like Resist Petrify also works for Terror.
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By Asura.Carrotchan 2016-09-25 23:34:27  
Asura.Azagarth said: »
and tan/colada? or soon to be sequence/colada?

Spicy said:
Are you asking which is better?

We are in the same LS, you know..

Sequence/Colada

Quetzalcoatl.Excalin said: »
These resist sets are going to get colorful pretty quick I guess

So here is a question. Does Death count as a Status for Heartly Earring? or would it be straight M Eva + Death Resist?

SpicyGuacamole said:
Death is not a status ailment, so probably not.
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By Sylph.Oraen 2016-09-25 23:37:32  
He was asking for proper STP values between the two combinations.

I don't know about those values, as most of my work lately has just been with REM combinations. Your best bet would be to test for yourself for your exact gear.
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By Asura.Carrotchan 2016-09-25 23:41:34  
Sylph.Oraen said: »
He was asking for proper STP values between the two combinations.

I don't know about those values, as most of my work lately has just been with REM combinations. Your best bet would be to test for yourself for your exact gear.

Spicy.Avocado said:
Sorry I am making avocado spread for breakfast atm. Carrot just said there was something so I put the stuff down to check. Didn't put 2 and 2 together.

STILL, AZA, WTF?
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