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[Dev] TH9 vs TH10, What's Better?
VIP
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2011-10-06 11:28:07
This is kinda on the borderline of why did I post this, but I've always heard from people that TH9 is better than TH10.
10-06-2011 12:55 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Our Community Team counterpart over in Japan, Mocchi, with the aid of the QA team, decided it was time to do his own kind of Myth Busters, FFXI style to determine if the myth about the drop rate of Treasure Hunter 10 being worse than Treasure Hunter 9 was true or not.
They headed out to Mount Zhayolm to slay 1000 Sulphuric Jagils. 500 with Treasure Hunter 9 and an additional 500 with Treasure Hunter 10.
So was it true…or is this just another myth that got busted?
Is the Treasure Hunter effect really getting stronger like it should?
When the Treasure Hunter effect increased, we checked not only the message displayed, but the actual values that were originally set and found that it was increasing like it should.
TH9 vs. TH10
Since it would take a ridiculous amount of time to test this by manually increasing the Treasure Hunter effect to 9 or 10 via attacks and what not, we prepared special equipment that gave us Treasure Hunter+9 and Treasure Hunter+10 and tested it on MNK/WHM, removing all the other equipment. As a result of our testing, we determined that we got more Pugil Scales with Treasure Hunter 10.
※This is a screenshot from actual testing.
While we don’t want to be the destroyers of anyone’s dreams, let us know if there are any other FFXI myths you would like busted |
10-06-2011 07:11 | Mocchi | Community Rep | |
| ゼオルム火山の奥地 100マルム!アビリティ「トレジャーハンター」の謎に迫る!!
都市伝説への飽くなき挑戦が大好きです、こんにちは。
今回の都市伝説「トレハン10は9よりドロップが悪い」が真実かどうかに迫るため、担当者およびQAチームと、「トレハン効果が9の状態」で500匹、「トレハン効果が10の状態」で500匹、ゼオルム火山のSulphuric Jagilをしばいところ……
……
…
真実ではありませんでした!
(心の隅っこでは、万が一、不具合があったらどうしようとドキドキしていたのでほっとしました。)
そもそもトレハン効果は正常に上昇しているか?
トレハン効果が上昇した際に、メッセージの表示だけではなく、本来設定されている値になるかどうかを確認しましたが正常に上昇していました。
トレハン9 vs トレハン10
近接攻撃などで9もしくは10までトレハンランクを上昇させて検証をすると「計り知れない時間」がかかってしまうため、ドロップ率の検証用にトレハン+9の効果を持った装備品と、トレハン+10の効果を持った装備を特別に用意し、その他の装備品は全て外した状態のモンク(サポ白)で検証しました。いずれの場合も期待値を少し上回る結果になったものの、トレハン10の方が陸魚の鱗を多く手にすることになりました。
※画像はイメージではありません。実際の検証風景です。
「信じるか信じないかはアナタ次第!」で〆るわけにもいかないので、これはもう信じていただくよりほかはありません。
噂を解明しすぎると夢もなにかもあったもんじゃなくなるため、そのさじ加減が難しいところではありますが、今後も引き続き都市伝説の究明に挑みたいと思います。(つ、つかれた……) |
lolGoogleTranslateMess 100 Malm Zeorumu volcanic hinterland? Ability "treasure hunter" approach to the mystery of! !
I love the perpetual challenge to urban legend, hello. Urban Legends This "Torehan 10 poor dropped from 9" for close to whether truth is, the QA team and personnel, "the state of the 9 effect Torehan" Animal 500, "states the 10 effective Torehan" In Animal 500, where the volcanic dust and the Sulphuric Jagil Zeorumu ... ... ... ... ... was not true! (In the corner of the mind, unlikely event, it was hot there was a bug nervous trying to do.)
What effect has risen the first place Torehan properly?
Torehan effect increases when not only displays the message, I had successfully risen to be sure whether the original has been set.
9 vs 10 Torehan Torehan
validation and increase the ranks Torehan melee until 9 or 10, such as "immeasurable time," because it might take, with the effect of equipment for the Validating Drop Torehan +9 and to specially equipped with the effects of Torehan +10 other equipment disconnected all of Monk (white support) has been verified. Although the results were slightly above the expected value in either case, now you get a lot more land Torehan fish scales 10. ※ The picture image. Verification of actual scenery.
"I believe I believe is up to you!" So why go to 〆 Ru, which is no longer other than you believe. Mon Janaku was also to become something even clarify the rumors and dreams too, where it is difficult to moderate spoon there,挑Mitai would continue to investigate this urban legend. (One, tired ...)
I didn't really get anything from that crap, so I asked a friend who speaks Japanese and she told me:
Quote: Scoppie: they tested which is better TH9 or 10 cause some ppl think 9 is better than 10
then they killed mobs with TH9 gears and TH10 gears but the PC's job was mnk/whm, cause it was just test
and says TH10 got more items than 9
You might ask, "Why didn't they use a THF"?
Well, when you think about it they wanted to control the situation to make sure they have valid data. They would have constant TH9 and constant TH10 throughout their tests resulting in consistent data. If they were to do it on THF they might not be able to stop it from procing TH and would make the data unusable. So their job combo doesn't really matter.
Anyways I thought that was a little interesting. Nothing really news worthy but interesting /o/
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2011-10-06 11:40:21
But why go to Ru, which is no longer other than you believe?
But really, already my ads are now in Japanese. Amazing.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 441
By Shiva.Darkmacabre 2011-10-06 11:46:58
10 turned out to be better than 9?
Who would've imagined.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 996
By Asura.Kaisuko 2011-10-06 11:53:01
I thought the general consensus was Koki > all?
VIP
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2011-10-06 11:53:59
Shiva.Darkmacabre said: »10 turned out to be better than 9?
Who would've imagined. You would think so, but it is one of the highest ratted dev post in months and it has only been out for 4 hours.
[+]
Cerberus.Wojo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 416
By Cerberus.Wojo 2011-10-06 11:54:07
Yes please test this on rare drops and seals. :D
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 842
By Lakshmi.Emanuelle 2011-10-06 12:17:38
no weeaboos on this forums?
Phoenix.Kirana
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2025
By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-10-06 12:27:42
What I want to see the devs do is test TH2 vs. Higher TH levels (as players have already done) to show that anything above 2 is pretty much garbage. Maybe they would see that the additional TH from MAINING thf isn't an overpowering factor of the job.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-10-06 12:34:16
Bismarck.Josiahkf said: »it's too bad we can't have someone kill 1000 mobs with th1, 1000 with th2 th3 th4 etc and see the results of each percentage wise to see if they actually slightly go up with each
on average I hear some people claim 2 is the most or 7 and now 9? oh lord lol There's been some testing on various forums. Droprates do increase, it's just a very small increase for any level beyond TH2.
VIP
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2011-10-06 12:59:18
Camate already translated the whole thing, damn lol.
Will post in a sec.
Okie, OP updated
VIP
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2011-10-06 13:11:56
I like the mythbusters twist he put into it lol
[+]
Shiva.Gihzah
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3
By Shiva.Gihzah 2011-10-06 13:13:40
I'm just going to leave this here. (Rather old testing)
Testing one.
Testing two.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2202
By Asura.Karbuncle 2011-10-06 18:46:48
Could just be me imagining things. but i thought TH1/2 Worked differently then the rest.
That being they are a much higher improvement. Guess it really does not matter much, Just, they'd technically be testing TH11 vs TH12... Since they're testing straight TH+1 values.
So they'd need to test TH7 VS TH8 to see if those values were skewed.
IDK. Doesn't matter. Testing was nice. at least they semi-confirmed they can view the formula for TH here:
[quote}but the actual values that were originally set and found that it was increasing like it should.[/quote]
Unless im reading this in the wrong context
Quetzalcoatl.Hispiforce
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 55
By Quetzalcoatl.Hispiforce 2011-10-06 18:59:21
I lol'd because I've been watching MythBusters all week.
[+]
Leviathan.Laphine
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 64
By Leviathan.Laphine 2011-10-06 19:36:09
silly test imo. The real issue is on the THIII trait. It seems to be working like a gear/proc boost, which is completely unreasonable (it really should work like THI and THII). This is among the reasons people started settling for /THF.
Bismarck.Eburo
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1377
By Bismarck.Eburo 2011-10-06 21:09:27
I read somewhere (and therefore used to believe) that TH was an "extra roll", and so if a drop had 10% drop rate, you'd have 2 "rolls" to determine if you would get it, thus making it a 20% drop rate (a 100% increase from no TH -> TH1)
Regardless, the testing linked in this thread essentially shows the same correlation with theoretical drop rate/increase I was convinced to believe...
TH |
Drop rate |
Increased DR % |
0 |
10% |
X |
2 |
20% |
100% |
3 |
30% |
50% |
4 |
40% |
33.333% |
5 |
50% |
25% |
6 |
60% |
20% |
7 |
70% |
16.666% |
So each level of TH after 1 would become less effective, and stop being effective once the rate hits "100%"
Ragnarok.Flippant
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 658
By Ragnarok.Flippant 2011-10-06 22:29:31
Even if TH were "rolls," it wouldn't work that way >_> You don't add the chances, you have to multiple the chances of it not dropping and subtract that from 100. And this in itself ensures that drop rate will never reach, as you say "100%."
And it wouldn't really be surprising if it was decreasing returns.
Necro Bump Detected!
[43 days between previous and next post]
Bismarck.Veruna
By Bismarck.Veruna 2011-11-18 12:28:27
What they didn't show us, was how many 'scales' they got while testing. For all we know it could have been..
TH9 - 345 Scales
TH10- 346 Scales.
Ragnarok.Ashman
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-11-18 12:39:15
Where he says "let us know if you want any other myths busted"
Tell me if capping blue just makes more logs and ore drop :|
[+]
Leviathan.Jihiro
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3
By Leviathan.Jihiro 2011-12-14 10:45:27
Testing over hundreds(thousands) of +2 drops and empyrean, I concluded that TH6 is the best.
The consistency of receiving full monster drop table and/or receive multiple drops of on particular item is in favor of TH6. TH6 is the magical number.
Under TH6, there is a noticeable scaling to drop rate as one would expect. As you progress up the TH levels, drop rates increase and returns get higher.
Over TH6 there are significantly diminishing returns. The drop rate for multiple items of the same type is lower and the likelihood of complete monster drops happening is lower as well.
I noticed this after doing many empyrean NM runs and farming many +2 items and began recording down my findings and was quite shocked at the immense drop rate fall between TH6 and TH7+.
I have the excel sheet somewhere, need to find it. Will post it when I find it.
One thing to note, though: as a THF, I have never ever been able to proc TH9 or higher normally (with brew you can proc to TH10 easily). I have done countless long battles (45mins+) while applying the appropriate SA and TA with AF3+2 gloves and can only get TH8.
Expect to be shocked at TH6 vs TH7/8 when I find that excel!
Ragnarok.Ashman
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-12-14 10:51:19
Due to extensive research done by the Fourchon University of Science, diamond has been confirmed as the the hardest metal known the man. The research is as follows.
Pocket-protected scientists built a wall of iron and crashed a diamond car into it at 400 miles per hour, and the car was unharmed.
They then built a wall out of diamond and crashed a car made of iron moving at 400 miles an out into the wall, and the wall came out fine.
They then crashed a diamond car made of 400 miles per hour into a wall, and there were no survivors.
They crashed 400 miles per hour into a diamond travelling at iron car. Western New York was powerless for hours.
They rammed a wall of metal into a 400 mile per hour made of diamond, and the resulting explosion shifted the earth's orbit 400 million miles away from the sun, saving the earth from a meteor the size of a small Washington suburb that was hurtling towards midwestern Prussia at 400 billion miles per hour.
They shot a diamond made of iron at a car moving at 400 walls per hour, and as a result caused two wayward airplanes to lose track of their bearings, and make a fatal crash with two buildings in downtown New York.
They spun 400 miles at diamond into iron per wall. The results were inconclusive.
Finally, they placed 400 diamonds per hour in front of a car made of wall travelling at miles, and the result proved without a doubt that diamonds were the hardest metal of all time, if not just the hardest metal known the man.
Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2011-12-14 11:06:47
Due to extensive research done by the Fourchon University of Science, diamond has been confirmed as the the hardest metal known the man. The research is as follows.
Pocket-protected scientists built a wall of iron and crashed a diamond car into it at 400 miles per hour, and the car was unharmed.
They then built a wall out of diamond and crashed a car made of iron moving at 400 miles an out into the wall, and the wall came out fine.
They then crashed a diamond car made of 400 miles per hour into a wall, and there were no survivors.
They crashed 400 miles per hour into a diamond travelling at iron car. Western New York was powerless for hours.
They rammed a wall of metal into a 400 mile per hour made of diamond, and the resulting explosion shifted the earth's orbit 400 million miles away from the sun, saving the earth from a meteor the size of a small Washington suburb that was hurtling towards midwestern Prussia at 400 billion miles per hour.
They shot a diamond made of iron at a car moving at 400 walls per hour, and as a result caused two wayward airplanes to lose track of their bearings, and make a fatal crash with two buildings in downtown New York.
They spun 400 miles at diamond into iron per wall. The results were inconclusive.
Finally, they placed 400 diamonds per hour in front of a car made of wall travelling at miles, and the result proved without a doubt that diamonds were the hardest metal of all time, if not just the hardest metal known the man. This
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2821
By Odin.Sheelay 2011-12-14 11:12:19
All these testings are fine and all, but Hollywood already gave us the answer. 1 movie, 4 sequels and Th1000 is always the cool one to have around in pty.
Bismarck.Upgrayedd
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17
By Bismarck.Upgrayedd 2011-12-14 11:19:45
Due to extensive research done by the Fourchon University of Science, diamond has been confirmed as the the hardest metal known the man. The research is as follows.
Pocket-protected scientists built a wall of iron and crashed a diamond car into it at 400 miles per hour, and the car was unharmed.
They then built a wall out of diamond and crashed a car made of iron moving at 400 miles an out into the wall, and the wall came out fine.
They then crashed a diamond car made of 400 miles per hour into a wall, and there were no survivors.
They crashed 400 miles per hour into a diamond travelling at iron car. Western New York was powerless for hours.
They rammed a wall of metal into a 400 mile per hour made of diamond, and the resulting explosion shifted the earth's orbit 400 million miles away from the sun, saving the earth from a meteor the size of a small Washington suburb that was hurtling towards midwestern Prussia at 400 billion miles per hour.
They shot a diamond made of iron at a car moving at 400 walls per hour, and as a result caused two wayward airplanes to lose track of their bearings, and make a fatal crash with two buildings in downtown New York.
They spun 400 miles at diamond into iron per wall. The results were inconclusive.
Finally, they placed 400 diamonds per hour in front of a car made of wall travelling at miles, and the result proved without a doubt that diamonds were the hardest metal of all time, if not just the hardest metal known the man.
LMAO more testing please!
By oncura 2011-12-14 11:29:05
Due to extensive research done by the Fourchon University of Science, diamond has been confirmed as the the hardest metal known the man. The research is as follows.
Pocket-protected scientists built a wall of iron and crashed a diamond car into it at 400 miles per hour, and the car was unharmed.
They then built a wall out of diamond and crashed a car made of iron moving at 400 miles an out into the wall, and the wall came out fine.
They then crashed a diamond car made of 400 miles per hour into a wall, and there were no survivors.
They crashed 400 miles per hour into a diamond travelling at iron car. Western New York was powerless for hours.
They rammed a wall of metal into a 400 mile per hour made of diamond, and the resulting explosion shifted the earth's orbit 400 million miles away from the sun, saving the earth from a meteor the size of a small Washington suburb that was hurtling towards midwestern Prussia at 400 billion miles per hour.
They shot a diamond made of iron at a car moving at 400 walls per hour, and as a result caused two wayward airplanes to lose track of their bearings, and make a fatal crash with two buildings in downtown New York.
They spun 400 miles at diamond into iron per wall. The results were inconclusive.
Finally, they placed 400 diamonds per hour in front of a car made of wall travelling at miles, and the result proved without a doubt that diamonds were the hardest metal of all time, if not just the hardest metal known the man.
....+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1......
By AsuraVanzan 2011-12-14 11:48:25
Due to extensive research done by the Fourchon University of Science, diamond has been confirmed as the the hardest metal known the man. The research is as follows.
Pocket-protected scientists built a wall of iron and crashed a diamond car into it at 400 miles per hour, and the car was unharmed.
They then built a wall out of diamond and crashed a car made of iron moving at 400 miles an out into the wall, and the wall came out fine.
They then crashed a diamond car made of 400 miles per hour into a wall, and there were no survivors.
They crashed 400 miles per hour into a diamond travelling at iron car. Western New York was powerless for hours.
They rammed a wall of metal into a 400 mile per hour made of diamond, and the resulting explosion shifted the earth's orbit 400 million miles away from the sun, saving the earth from a meteor the size of a small Washington suburb that was hurtling towards midwestern Prussia at 400 billion miles per hour.
They shot a diamond made of iron at a car moving at 400 walls per hour, and as a result caused two wayward airplanes to lose track of their bearings, and make a fatal crash with two buildings in downtown New York.
They spun 400 miles at diamond into iron per wall. The results were inconclusive.
Finally, they placed 400 diamonds per hour in front of a car made of wall travelling at miles, and the result proved without a doubt that diamonds were the hardest metal of all time, if not just the hardest metal known the man.
You win!! I love this.
Carbuncle.Luckyy
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1
By Carbuncle.Luckyy 2011-12-14 11:58:14
So what is the limit for TH to be procted? I have seen TH12 done 2 times on the NM crab in Jugner, and that resulted in 2 V-Belts dropping out of 3 fights.
[+]
Bismarck.Upgrayedd
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17
By Bismarck.Upgrayedd 2011-12-14 12:15:55
I wonder if the Fourchon University of Science can conduct such experiments using Diamondium or Diamondillium.
This is kinda on the borderline of why did I post this, but I've always heard from people that TH9 is better than TH10.
10-06-2011 12:55 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Our Community Team counterpart over in Japan, Mocchi, with the aid of the QA team, decided it was time to do his own kind of Myth Busters, FFXI style to determine if the myth about the drop rate of Treasure Hunter 10 being worse than Treasure Hunter 9 was true or not.
They headed out to Mount Zhayolm to slay 1000 Sulphuric Jagils. 500 with Treasure Hunter 9 and an additional 500 with Treasure Hunter 10.
So was it true…or is this just another myth that got busted?
Is the Treasure Hunter effect really getting stronger like it should?
When the Treasure Hunter effect increased, we checked not only the message displayed, but the actual values that were originally set and found that it was increasing like it should.
TH9 vs. TH10
Since it would take a ridiculous amount of time to test this by manually increasing the Treasure Hunter effect to 9 or 10 via attacks and what not, we prepared special equipment that gave us Treasure Hunter+9 and Treasure Hunter+10 and tested it on MNK/WHM, removing all the other equipment. As a result of our testing, we determined that we got more Pugil Scales with Treasure Hunter 10.
※This is a screenshot from actual testing.
While we don’t want to be the destroyers of anyone’s dreams, let us know if there are any other FFXI myths you would like busted |
10-06-2011 07:11 | Mocchi | Community Rep | |
| ゼオルム火山の奥地 100マルム!アビリティ「トレジャーハンター」の謎に迫る!!
都市伝説への飽くなき挑戦が大好きです、こんにちは。
今回の都市伝説「トレハン10は9よりドロップが悪い」が真実かどうかに迫るため、担当者およびQAチームと、「トレハン効果が9の状態」で500匹、「トレハン効果が10の状態」で500匹、ゼオルム火山のSulphuric Jagilをしばいところ……
……
…
真実ではありませんでした!
(心の隅っこでは、万が一、不具合があったらどうしようとドキドキしていたのでほっとしました。)
そもそもトレハン効果は正常に上昇しているか?
トレハン効果が上昇した際に、メッセージの表示だけではなく、本来設定されている値になるかどうかを確認しましたが正常に上昇していました。
トレハン9 vs トレハン10
近接攻撃などで9もしくは10までトレハンランクを上昇させて検証をすると「計り知れない時間」がかかってしまうため、ドロップ率の検証用にトレハン+9の効果を持った装備品と、トレハン+10の効果を持った装備を特別に用意し、その他の装備品は全て外した状態のモンク(サポ白)で検証しました。いずれの場合も期待値を少し上回る結果になったものの、トレハン10の方が陸魚の鱗を多く手にすることになりました。
※画像はイメージではありません。実際の検証風景です。
「信じるか信じないかはアナタ次第!」で〆るわけにもいかないので、これはもう信じていただくよりほかはありません。
噂を解明しすぎると夢もなにかもあったもんじゃなくなるため、そのさじ加減が難しいところではありますが、今後も引き続き都市伝説の究明に挑みたいと思います。(つ、つかれた……) |
lolGoogleTranslateMess 100 Malm Zeorumu volcanic hinterland? Ability "treasure hunter" approach to the mystery of! !
I love the perpetual challenge to urban legend, hello. Urban Legends This "Torehan 10 poor dropped from 9" for close to whether truth is, the QA team and personnel, "the state of the 9 effect Torehan" Animal 500, "states the 10 effective Torehan" In Animal 500, where the volcanic dust and the Sulphuric Jagil Zeorumu ... ... ... ... ... was not true! (In the corner of the mind, unlikely event, it was hot there was a bug nervous trying to do.)
What effect has risen the first place Torehan properly?
Torehan effect increases when not only displays the message, I had successfully risen to be sure whether the original has been set.
9 vs 10 Torehan Torehan
validation and increase the ranks Torehan melee until 9 or 10, such as "immeasurable time," because it might take, with the effect of equipment for the Validating Drop Torehan +9 and to specially equipped with the effects of Torehan +10 other equipment disconnected all of Monk (white support) has been verified. Although the results were slightly above the expected value in either case, now you get a lot more land Torehan fish scales 10. ※ The picture image. Verification of actual scenery.
"I believe I believe is up to you!" So why go to 〆 Ru, which is no longer other than you believe. Mon Janaku was also to become something even clarify the rumors and dreams too, where it is difficult to moderate spoon there,挑Mitai would continue to investigate this urban legend. (One, tired ...)
I didn't really get anything from that crap, so I asked a friend who speaks Japanese and she told me:
Quote: Scoppie: they tested which is better TH9 or 10 cause some ppl think 9 is better than 10
then they killed mobs with TH9 gears and TH10 gears but the PC's job was mnk/whm, cause it was just test
and says TH10 got more items than 9
You might ask, "Why didn't they use a THF"?
Well, when you think about it they wanted to control the situation to make sure they have valid data. They would have constant TH9 and constant TH10 throughout their tests resulting in consistent data. If they were to do it on THF they might not be able to stop it from procing TH and would make the data unusable. So their job combo doesn't really matter.
Anyways I thought that was a little interesting. Nothing really news worthy but interesting /o/
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