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Torcleaver Math
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-12-29 15:09:40
Sylph.Starstrukk said: Odin.Zicdeh said: I've heard different things, but seen nothing, can the Occ. Deals Double Damage process on Weapon Skills for Empyreans?
Not that a negative answer would sway me from my path, but I want to know for sure. Cara(23/50) CC(20/50)
A bit late, but nope no procs on WS.
Are you sure... I Just saw a friend of mine do a 9871 Torcleaver with Caladbolg... lol. (Not lolbrewed) That's either Occ2x DMG or EAF set proc (Only had 3 pieces on for WS, Legs/Feet/Hands).
 Phoenix.Fredjan
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2326
By Phoenix.Fredjan 2010-12-29 15:13:34
Triple Attack?
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-12-29 15:14:27
Phoenix.Fredjan said: Triple Attack? (Quoted the wrong post in previous one, my bad)Fix'd
Maybe, that still seems awefully high for a triple attack, Maybe triple attack 300tp..?
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 21
By Valefor.Setsugekka 2010-12-29 15:47:12
Yea, seem too high to be triple attack. It looks more like a AF set effect proc.
Phoenix.Fredjan
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2326
By Phoenix.Fredjan 2010-12-29 16:08:59
300% TA with AF3 proc.
Sounds rare as hell...
Necro Bump Detected!
[32 days between previous and next post]
 Gilgamesh.Sanders
サーバ: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24
By Gilgamesh.Sanders 2011-01-30 11:35:29
I've been juggling options for good Torcleaver builds. I know this has been already discussed, but does anyone have theirs somewhat decided and is willing to share? Really appreciated.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 295
By Sylph.Rorrick 2011-01-30 11:38:25
Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-30 11:44:13
att
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 295
By Sylph.Rorrick 2011-01-30 11:50:06
DRK is the last job that should be struggling to cap pDIF, but if you are, VIT where you can get a lot of it and attack where you can't (back slot comes to mind).
No idea how stuff like Ares Cuirass compares to Twilight body when attack isn't capped, but you really shouldn't have that problem on DRK.
Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-30 11:55:07
Actually I think war would be... also it's not as easy as you might think if you litterally go all out on vit especially on nms. But kinda hard to tell since there isn't alot of numbers on mob defense out there.
Idk pretty much every Torcleaver drk I've heard says rather att is important. But maybe they don't /war :)
Most other jobs aren't struggling to cap pdif they aren't even trying because it's way too far away on most anything worthwhile unless you are throwing alot of attack buffs on them and alot of def down on the mob. Remember ratio for 2hders caps at 2.2. Ie you have 2.2X more att then the mob has def. Considering lolibri had a def in the low 300s I wouldn't doubt most current xp mobs being in the low 400s
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 295
By Sylph.Rorrick 2011-01-30 11:59:15
Every DRK is /MNK now so they can Boost.
Edit: There are a few places where you can't get decent amounts of VIT anyway (back and hands spring to mind immediately) so the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive to one another. Attack shouldn't be overlooked but neither should the VIT mod.
Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-30 12:00:04
Sylph.Rorrick said: Every job is /MNK now so they can counterstance tank. ftfy :)
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サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 295
By Sylph.Rorrick 2011-01-30 12:01:37
Bahamut.Dasva said: Sylph.Rorrick said: Every job is /MNK now so they can half-assed counterstance tank. ftfy :)
Fixed.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-01-30 12:06:31
Sylph.Rorrick said: Every DRK is /MNK now so they can Boost.
I didn't know there was that big of a lack of mnks across all servers. I can see the shell w/o a mnk using a drk/mnk tank for something, I suppose, but every drk being /mnk is just ridiculous. /mnk is a back up plan, if you have a mnk step back and let em do it right.
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Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-30 12:18:15
I'd rather just have an evasion tank or even a pld over some random dd/mnk for halfassed counterstance tanking. Can't be that hard to find 1 competent mnk thf nin or dnc lol.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 295
By Sylph.Rorrick 2011-01-30 12:29:18
If you're subbing MNK to counterstance tank, someone else probably has hate and you're wasting your subjob.
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サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-01-30 12:32:40
Sylph.Rorrick said: If you're subbing MNK to counterstance tank, someone else probably has hate and you're wasting your subjob.
Gilgamesh.Sanders
サーバ: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24
By Gilgamesh.Sanders 2011-01-30 13:05:46
DRK/MNK for boost, counter, and vit. Got it.
I'll scrap caladbolg for verethragna, also.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-01-30 13:27:25
Gilgamesh.Sanders said: DRK/MNK for boost, counter, and vit. Got it.
I'll scrap caladbolg for verethragna, also. I see success in your future.
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Fenrir.Gradd
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-01-30 15:02:41
Every DRK plays WAR WHM MNK or NIN fixed!
I havent played drk in months except in dynamis makes me emo x:
Abyssea really comes down to how useful you are and I low man everything with 3-4 people isnt much room for my Drk, I am usually on WHM or WAR for procs.
Also for Torcleaver I do prefer attack believe it or not DRK can have issues hitting the attack cap! Especially once you start hitting higher level mobs then Torcleaver really starts to do crap Damage, I might actually start working on Redemption for High Defense stuffs, i'm already done with the trial weapon, but Chloris path kinda sucks.
Friend of mine finished Vere last night, we went 30 hours straight finishing her Stage II sexy h2h is sexy!
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1294
By Quetzalcoatl.Volkom 2011-01-30 21:34:35
Fenrir.Gradd said: Every DRK plays WAR WHM MNK or NIN fixed! I havent played drk in months except in dynamis makes me emo x: Abyssea really comes down to how useful you are and I low man everything with 3-4 people isnt much room for my Drk, I am usually on WHM or WAR for procs. Also for Torcleaver I do prefer attack believe it or not DRK can have issues hitting the attack cap! Especially once you start hitting higher level mobs then Torcleaver really starts to do crap Damage, I might actually start working on Redemption for High Defense stuffs, i'm already done with the trial weapon, but Chloris path kinda sucks. Friend of mine finished Vere last night, we went 30 hours straight finishing her Stage II sexy h2h is sexy! Oh come'on Gradd! you got to think outside the box with drk =3
Drk is not as useless if you have the the halloween polearm or the samurai thingy event's great katana
if you're subbing warrior you get access to raiden's thrust, and if you have great katana merits (atleast 6) then you get jinpu. its not great but it does help if you want to do a little bit more with Drk in abyssea.
as for getting redemption...you could always pray to the SE gods and win rank 1 prize and pick it >:D
Fenrir.Gradd
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-01-31 00:50:23
I did outparse a Vere, Bravura and an Apoc tonight in dyna tho! Calad destroys outside Abyssea pretty violently I must say :O
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 295
By Sylph.Rorrick 2011-01-31 01:35:46
Dynamis/Einherjar/anything that dies instantly isn't a place where MNK should be.
Congrats on beating relics and a MNK that shouldn't have been on MNK.
Fenrir.Gradd
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-01-31 01:59:20
Sylph.Rorrick said: Dynamis/Einherjar/anything that dies instantly isn't a place where MNK should be.
Congrats on beating relics and a MNK that shouldn't have been on MNK.
Are you HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE? Vere is pretty brutal even outside of Abyssea, altho you havent played in 6 months ill give you that atleast, Retardation forgiven~
The MNK parsed 2nd, VS will average 2k w/ proper buffs.
Seriously is anything you post even remotely smart?
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サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 295
By Sylph.Rorrick 2011-01-31 02:11:08
I don't need to play to understand that DoT damage is worthless when two handers with Meditate and five hits are oneshotting everything. How about you pull your Caladbolg out of your *** and use your own brain a little.
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Fenrir.Gradd
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-01-31 02:12:51
You are an idiot thats all it comes down too dude, nothing you say is ever right in any post you make lol.
Constant 2k WS from Victory Smite and Double Damage aftermath is more than enough to completley destroy just about every non-empyrean DD, if you are arguing that then there is something wrong.
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Alexander.Tidusblitz
サーバ: Alexander
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1252
By Alexander.Tidusblitz 2011-01-31 02:19:40
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サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 295
By Sylph.Rorrick 2011-01-31 02:24:32
I'll try and spell this out for you.
In places like Einherjar and Dynamis, where everything dies instantly and you're only getting a couple hits on each mob, MNK is not a good job. Other jobs are weaponskilling twice as often as a MNK is before considering Meditate, whoever is the main assist has an advantage, and engage/disengage kills the delay advantage MNK has. If you honestly can't see why that's not an optimal situation for MNK, then how else to explain it to you.
I'm not saying Vereth is bad (it's better than Caladbolg), and I didn't say it wouldn't destroy non-Emp DDs (it does, clearly). I said MNK is not a good job for environments like Einherjar and Dynamis. FYI, Vereth aftermath only procs on the offhand, and since you're both using an Empyrean that's a moot consideration in the first place (plus it's off more than it's on in places like Einherjar anyway).
Congratulations, you beat a handicapped person and a bunch of relics. If that's what it takes to make you feel good about DRK then whatever.
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Fenrir.Mankey
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1323
By Fenrir.Mankey 2011-01-31 02:26:04
Sylph.Rorrick said: I don't need to play to understand that DoT damage is worthless when two handers with Meditate and five hits are oneshotting everything. How about you pull your Caladbolg out of your *** and use your own brain a little. Rorrick should only be allowed to play PUP, and then the automation should be the only thing allowed to make decisions, Vana would be a better place
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Fenrir.Gradd
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-01-31 02:28:29
Sylph.Rorrick said: Congrats on beating relics and a MNK that shouldn't have been on MNK.
Orly
So what non-empyrean Job should they have been on?
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Hey there!
I've had Espafut +2 since shortly after the recent version update and have been playing around with it quite a bit. I'm really pleased with the WS but I can't seem to find a gear set that I'm happy with. Torcleaver has a VIT mod which isn't very practical and so I set out to do some testing on how I could increase my Torcleaver damage.
Now, I want to start by saying that I have never tried testing anything like this before so please tell me where I make mistakes or could improve. I decided starting on level 1 monsters would be best and set off to Ronfaure. These next tests were all done against Wild Rabbits using Sneak Attack just outside Sandy. My goal was to see how VIT, STR and Attack effects Torcleaver.
Naked
Target: Wild Rabbit
(STR:94 VIT:83 Attack: 477)
[Espafut +2, Sword Strap]
2748, 2730, 2815
With Last Resort: 2844
Minor VIT
Target: Wild Rabbit
(STR:94+13 VIT:83+18 Attack: 507)
[Espafut +2, Sword Strap, Byrnie, Warwolf Belt, Perle Brayettes, Spiral Ring]
3155, 2829, 2863
With Last Resort: 2936
Attack
Target: Wild Rabbit
(STR:94+14 VIT:83+3 Attack: 581)
[Espafut +2, Sword Strap, Byrnie, Forager's Mantle, Perle Moufles, Swordbelt +1, Black Cuisses, Ulthalams Ring, Aesir ear pendant, Bomb Core]
2857, 2794, 2774
With Last Resort: 2768
Major VIT
Target: Wild Rabbit
(STR:94+16 VIT:83+40 Attack: 547)
[Espafut +2, Sword Strap, Bibiki Seashell, Abyss Burgeonet, Byrnie, Soil Ring, Spiral Ring, Orcish Gauntlets, Perle Brayettes, Warwolf Belt, Forager's mantle, Power sandals, Aesir ear pendant]
3097, 3077, 3200
With Last Resort: 3051
I know it isn't a huge sample size, but from that it's pretty obvious VIT gives the biggest increase to damage. However, It didn't seem like attack gear had any effect on the WS. I thought it might be because the monsters were too low and my attack already too high. With that in mind I took my testing into Abyssea - Tahrongi and started doing the same against Decent Challenge Pachypodium only. My goal was the same and I was hoping to confirm my VIT gear as the optimal setup, but this is what I got.
Major VIT
Target: Decent Challenge Pachypodium
Atma: Voracious Violet + Stormbreath
(STR:94+86 VIT:83+90 Attack: 600)
2836, 3259, 3179, 3218, 3104
STR/Attack
Target: Decent Challenge Pachypodium
Atma: Voracious Violet + Stormbreath
(STR:94+117 VIT:83+63 Attack: 673)
3255, 3472, 3226, 3286, 3428, 2818
STR
Target: Decent Challenge Pachypodium
Atma: Voracious Violet + Stout Arm
(STR:94+171 VIT:83+30 Attack: 722)
3040, 3466, 3534, 3006, 3055, 3444
STR/Attack
Target: Decent Challenge Pachypodium
Atma: Voracious Violet + Stout Arm
(STR:94+157 VIT:83+33 Attack: 753)
2914, 3525, 3166, 3304, 3424, 3508
Honestly, this leaves me with more questions than I had before testing. I tried to leave out any Torcleavers that I was 100% sure were double attacks, but it was hard to tell with the mandy beating on me or my first hit getting countered immediately. I have no idea what to gear for now because those tests show STR might have a greater effect against higher level monsters.
Besides getting a bigger sample size, what else could I do to narrow down a better gear set?
Are there better ways to test a Weapon Skill?
Does anyone else out there have this weapon, and if so, what do you find works best?
Any help with this will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Edit: Also, does anyone know what Gorget enhances this? The colored box in the WS menu is white so it might be Light, but it also has Distortion properties and can even make Darkness (Evis <--> Torcleaver = Darkness but Torcleaver --> Torcleaver is Light :P) so it's a little confusing.
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