Brd + Teal = ?

How does a Veela ring stack up for debuffs? Some of the numbers quoted in this thread are different from what I thought. Would a Veela and an Omega in concert be best? Or Omega and Balrahn? Does using Veela give you more liberty to stack other stats? Or does it depend on the mob's dchr or w/e it's called?

Bal+Omega are currently the best debuff rings. If you can't use Bal, then use Veela over the Nereid as it slightly edges it out.

Ofc the amount it edges it out is really small, so don't feel like it's overly necessary to do.

dCHR is your CHR vs the enemies CHR. If you're capped dCHR then 1CHR offer .5macc, when uncapped it offers 1macc. Though it's pretty easy to cap dCHR, since majority of mobs have rather low CHR themselves.

iirc pre level 80 update 120+ CHR was cap on every mob out there.

I wouldn't be surprised.

That sounds right, I vaguely remember 120 being the cap only on stuff like Tiamat, and everything else being lower. So what is a good CHR value to shoot for? (assuming lower than 120; but how much lower?)

Personally I shot for a 500Macc/skill-100 CHR set for my debuffs. 100 seems to be the magic number, and the rest is far more beneficial in skill and Macc.

Plus with level cap update, you can siphon even more chr off gear.

You're probably thinking of INT on Tiamat. Tiamat has pretty low CHR.

It was definitely CHR, the person who told me was probably mistaken then.


Thanks for the advice! I have the gear to pull off a set with similar numbers, I'll give it a shot on some more resistant mobs and see how it works out. :)

NP. Even in Abyssea with around 100 CHR and the rest in Macc+skill I was having no debuff issues at all which is pretty cool.

On what mob in abbyssea?

I certainly don't have any issues on bats but buggards or plantoids and I get a truckload of resists.

everything teal is garbage, do znms

Err, you think im a child is that it? Try to have a adult discussion please. That starts with respect if you lack the knowledge. Second time you reply to me with the same aggressivity.

I didn't link BG because i wanted to look "super elite". I linked BG because, read my words, it is "generally assumed" to be a source of advanced information at the FFXI community. Still, every link i posted i found with good old google.

You wanna have a real discussion? Let's compare the cases then. BRD macc is either 1:1 ratio from both skills, or 1:1/3 (or a different fraction) to sing and wind.

What's the problem 1:1? The problem is that brd would have over 500 macc from skill alone. If that would be the case, every mob would need a whole different magic evasion value to check against brd songs. Because c'mon, brd resist rate isn't floored. Moreso, HQ staves would not even be necessary.

Now the interesting thing about a fraction of the wind skill adding to macc is that it fits in to these issues. First a brd would have 300ish (@75) macc from skill. Thats much closer to what other mages with A+ skill have. That means that mobs don't need a different magic evasion, going from NQ to HQ staves can actually make a change, and etc.

Certainly i can't prove if 1:1/3 is indeed correct. Never seen any numbers, and none were in those links. I would actually need to go out there and do the test, and i don't have the free time to do such thing. But i've also never seen any numbers on 1:1 anyway. Imo, 500 macc from skills is really unlikely, specially more complex to program than a fraction of a skill.

So yeah i belive the correct answer lies on fractions. If it's not 1/3 of wind added, maybe something different. Half of both skills summed. Something. Imo this is a reasonable answer. Unless anyone can show me that both skills give 1 macc?

<3

What ZNM body replaces teal for debuffs? Hmm.

Not ZNM's, but you shouldn't use Teal body for debuffs.

Put some time into getting the shadow coat.

Well clearly shadow coat is superior, but what do you use until shadow coat? Teal! I thought this guy was asking for pointers on what he can improve in the immediate future as well as the long run. Right now, teal > your average 10CHR bodies out there.

A question about shadow coat though: How common is this drop for other people? I've seen more a.bodies and e.bodies than coats. In fact, I haven't seen a single shadow coat abjuration drop in ~a year. Bad luck or just reality?

Brd + Teal = Blue balls.

You could more likely assume that only the instrument's skill + CHR is applied to the macc. That would more or less accurately depict how often BRDs would get resisted on HNM and such.

@ Laphine
You could just as likely say that it's wind skill + 1/3 singing skill.

Another pointer in this issue is that for buffs it's well known and proven that buff strength is based on combined wind and singing skill (equally). So it would be odd if debuffs were calculated differently.

Like I said in my first post, "I've heard varying reports of 1 skill being anywhere from 0.5 macc to 1 macc".
I'm inclined to lean towards the 0.5 macc end of that spectrum (ie half of both skills summer). Or perhaps as skill gets higher the macc/skill value changes.

(Hopefully this post wasn't 'aggressive')

How would you find it strange that buffs and enfeebles are factored differently? Every BRD i've questioned about this has said things along the lines of singing having no effect on macc when using an instrument. Using that logic, 1skill > 1macc +CHR, BRDs macc would be high enough to land enfeebs on most things, but harder on higher level stuff. Saying its both skill/2 is almost the same thing.

That would imply there is near 0 magic accuracy when using a string instrument.

Id say its around a 20~25% drop. Of the first 36 Odins the LS I do einherjar with, 9 have dropped Shadow Coat. We've got more kills now but that thread hasn't been updated for awhile, so the numbers are a bit out of date. And for comparison, Abody - also 9 drops, Ebodys - 17. Maybe we're just lucky, I don't really know.

They need to give us bard's new instruments, like vuvuzela and saxofon.

Vuvuzela: Song range +2, Enmity+20

I want my own abrasive tantra. :(

I don't follow, String has it's own skill level too.

Increased string skill increases casting range, not accuracy.