/DNC Vs /NIN

As we all know, with the newest update comes the Dual Wield ability for Dancers, and jobs that are /DNC 40+ as well. Also, we know that with the newest update, once level 80 is hit, any job that is /NIN does not have access to Yonin, or more importantly for THFs, Innin(QQ). Now, a THF with decent accuracy doesn't have that much problems with gaining TP, but doing dances would of course eat away at your pool.

Before, the majority of THFs were sub NIN for DW and Utsu. In some situations though, it is somewhat safe to assume a THF is not taking the hits as much as a tank/heavy DD would in a party/meripo, and wouldn't need shadows as much.

There is still reason to sub both, and even other jobs, of course (With the right gearsets for each). I have my own opinions, and I'm looking for some second opinions. So for THF in particular, would you say it is worth gaining enfeebs and cures that take your TP and losing your shadows?

It's difficult really.

Anything squishy where you are there for pure damage with maybe a side helping of TH, the damage will be more useful than the /dnc stuff.

Anything hard where you would think "oh, time to support instead of focus too much on damage", you'd want /war for Berserk so you can actually damage the thing... or even go full on support and /whm.

Lowman, you will feed so much TP to the mob in the course of getting the TP for low HP heals that it's like taking one step forward and two steps back.

Overall I think this will remain a Campaign/messing around sub.

i'm just thinking given time /dnc will give thfs a way back into the merit level range partys withthe abuilty to cure enfeeb and buff party while also being able do spike dmg with and without tp with SAta. Then add feint to the mix with the eva down step already nice bonus on say birds where eatign food is a problem. I also beleive /danc gets a acc bonus trait not sure what else to help.

All this really does for me is when I do main DNC I'm not forced to sub /nin, which is perdy awesome.

I've been messing around with /DNC on my BLU....So far I'm kinda liking it, the Sambas and the Waltzes help (especially Healing Waltz). But what I'm really liking is the Accuracy Bonuses and the Evasion is still pretty good.

Welp, they do get Accuracy Bonus at level 30 (so 60 for THFs). Over time, though, I could see the damage you do over time taking a hit because you spend less tp on weaponskills, more on dances, etc.

It seems pretty situational to me, some sub dancer here, sub war there, sub nin here and there.
One of the reasons I would like to take DNC as my next job to 80. XD
Although I like how it gives classes that do well with Dual Wield another option, if they want it.

Although, i guess in the end really, THF is more of a "come here and poke it with your special knife because I want my sword", sometimes!

I had a thought, actually. Just for fun, lets say in the next update or something:

Dual Wield
- Obtained:
- Ninja Level 10
- Dancer Level 20
- Theif Level 50

Dual Wield II
- Obtained:
- Ninja Level 25
- Dancer Level 21-37 /!\
- Theif Level 75

Or something like that.
Eliminating the need for subbing nin or dnc for dual wields' sake, what then? Could Thief become more than a lottery knife and some lucky gloves, taken seriously as a DD job in others eyes? Even more options to sub war or sam or drg or maybe monk and really boost attack while still being versatile? Pick between your TP, your attack, your accuracy, your evasion, the whole bit.

Not saying they would do it, but it would be interesting. More thoughts?

Buildling on Lumra's theory:

Next update, I think /nin sub will be slightly superior to /dnc sub as far as attack delay is concerned. THF/NIN that wear Suppanomimi will get the same Dual Wield IV delay reduction that NIN gets natively.

NIN gets Dual Wield III @ LV45. So 90THF/45NIN will have 25% Delay Reduction + Suppanomimi's 5% for a grand total of 30%.

In that regards, /nin is still a primary choice for THF, especially since Utsusemi compliments the natural A+ evasion skill that THF already have. /dnc will be more situational in the case that shadows become ineffective, or your setup requires some form of extra healing.

In situtions where you know your not going to be hit or are a primary DD/skillchainer, /dnc is very nice.

for example Fafnir, subbing dancer gives you the ability to cure blindness after hurricane wing, as well as cure yourself from time to time, all the while having TP to do Skillchains.

For most situations for me personally and most events in general, I still see /Nin as the most viable subjob as shadows keep me alive and I usually have some kind of support at whatever I'm doing. The only thing I use /dnc for really is the occasional HNM and campaign.

When it comes to Soloing, I believe /nin and bolts are still the way to go. especially with your skill cap increase.

Thf/dnc is a nice Solo sub where its annoying or pointless to cast shadows to defend yourself. Makes it more cost effective to heal yourself too since you wont need bolts.

Anything that's particularly harder /nin will still be my go to job shadows can't be beat easily.

Alternatively I'll /bst this sub often gets overlooked by thieves, understandably. Solo naturally.

I don't /war ever, regardless of the situation. Thats just me and how strongly i feel against it. I understand the positives and negatives don't get me wrong, i just hate it. Now that we have /dnc i don't even have to debate going /war.

/drk Gives you a mini zerg (have an HP build) if your Pt needs your... *sigh* i hate saying this, TH, with some dmg, zerg Kirin or something it works pretty well on.

I have to agree, if your not planning on taking much damage and would like to support and you are able to melee /dnc is the way to go to help support. Keep in mind Thf has accomplice and collaborator, That gives me another reason to want to keep my shadows. Ofc the situations always different so decide rationally.

Overall I'm happy Thief got a new Subjob, and that Dancer got this buff. Its a step in the right direction imo. Now then! Give DW to thief now! Then i can sub War with no regrets like i do on my dancer!

So perhaps we can break it down as such:

/WAR for berserk and consistent DoT damage (Used to be kinda a personal must before LV 67+ daggers got their revamps on base DMG)

/DRK For any sky gods and for amazing SATA damage, during the times when SCs and MBs were a large staple part of killing mobs.

/RNG for any fight you couldn't directly melee.

/DNC for dual wield solo when you're unable to evade stuff with utsusemi.

/NIN for solo and utsusemi evasiveness, and definitely for dual wield attack delay reduction.

/BST for situational solo-ability.

I was thinking to myself how /nin would totally be doable to solo stuff if you have high enough evasion...but now that alot of the new Abyssea mobs are using really nasty TP moves that ignore utsusemi shadows, I'm starting to have some hesitations.

And I personally think that /WAR is definitely a matter of judging the mob you're fighting against; hitting for 0 isn't an issue for my THF anymore, and I figure that the accuracy from gear and skill level is usually decent enough to be able to evade having to sub something like this for damage boosts.

Actually w/ a brd and a rdm for support thf/nin would work great in abyssea with evasion setup. alot of the NMs have never low Acc. I tanked a few of them in different zones and could almost completly Ni tank some of them, of course this depends on the NM of course, but with some of the roaming/popped in NMs this is completely doable if you don't have a big group to go with or a static and just want to go in with a couple of friends.

The La Theine Liege NM has such low accuracy. I was seeing on wiki how it's been four manned and someone proposed an ideal setup would be Nin+Rdm+Whm. But with how many NM's I've duo'd on Thf/Nin + Rdm(/nin or /whm), I think Thf+Rdm could do this NM. Farucca fly is a breeze. Since it rarely hits you, when it aeroga III's there's plenty of MP to cure up.

A lot of VNM's and new Abyssea NM's have medicore accuracy. And the evasion gear that has come out recently (not to mention 5 more levels of evasion skill and level correction differential) is turning thief into an evasion machine.

I don't really like /dnc for tanking anything of difficulty. I guess for stuff you can solo easily it can be pretty good. That niche area where bolts don't land/proc and shadows aren't necessary from preventing a mob from hitting you for 400-500 on a normal hit, I guess /dnc is good for. But it may be a really small niche ><

You were a lot closer then you thought. Noice